in my kobelco 130, the turntable is a little loose and wabbly. the machine sure runs like a top, but rocks a little. i have not measured how much it moves, but was wondering when i should be worrying about it. how much should i be looking to spend in parts? is it a job i can do myself? i have heard it is not that big of a job. how would one go about it anyways? just wondering. thanks.
Well - you have to check very carefully. Do you have up and down slop? That is bad, and make sure that it is not actually the tracks moving. Or is it just a little lash in the drive gear (side to side) - a little of this is not much to worry about unless you are moving 2 feet side to side at the bucket when you let go of the slew.
there is not any side to side movement, just up and down. i know this is the bad kind, thats why i am wondering. like i said i can feel it when i am sitting there and i have seen it when i visually judge distance from the table to the tracks. i can see that i am moving any my tracks are on solid ground. thanks for the input.
That's a bummer, slew ring repairs don't come cheap. Your Kobelco dealer should be able to tell you the specs for out of tollerence.
Sounds like the swing bearing needs replaced eianewb.It dosent take much play in the turntable bearing before you start to feel it in the operators seat.I dont know about the cost of a new bearing on your excavator but they are not to hard to replace on most excavators.I helped my buddy replace the swing bearing on his Hein-Werner 14c ,we swung the house sideways & cribbed up under the counterwieght,capped off the hydraulic lines to the swing manifold , unbolted the bearing, used the hoe to raise the house off the undercarrige and a farm tractor to pull the undercarrige out away from the house.Install new swing bearing and reverse procedure.
Using a dial indicator between the carbody and bottom of the house or out side of the bearing with the boom pointing out betwen the front idlers, the boom and stick fully extended pushing up and down against the ground, a good bearing will have between 0.030 and 0.045 inch up and down play. You can start to feel the movement at around 0.065 inch and really feel it when the bearing gets around 0.100 or more. I usually think about getting a new bearing when they get around 0.075 inch. How the bolts are put in the bearing will determine how easy it is to replace. Older Komatsu excavators had one row accessible from the outside on the carbody and the others had the bolt heads on the top of the house. Many Cats used to have one row on the outside and the other row under the house accessible once the carbody was pulled out from under the house. Sumitomo machines had a double row of bolts accessible from the outside of the carbody. I've never done a Kobelco so plan accordingly. I did a PC300 Komatsu last and that bearing ran about $7,500 and the old one had to be sent back. That was five years ago. There are suppliers that can be found on the internet. Do a Google search using Rotec, slewing bearing or some other close turn. Good Luck!
if you provide a fax number i can send specifications. on another note, i find alot of owner/operators are unaware of proper maintenance on the turntable bearing and internal slewing gear. the grease zirk visually seen on the turntable is for greasing of the swing bearing. this greasing interval is as follows; - one shot with hand operated grease gun ep2 grease, done at four points, every 90 degrees around, to be done every 500 hours of machine use. no sooner, rather later. i have customers which grease this point only twice a year. we find that the swing bearing is being over greased. most grease everyday and the grease ends up pushing out the swing bearing "dust" seal. the seal is not a grease seal and you do not grease as you would with the pins and bushings. Over greasing of a bearing is worse than under greasing! regarding the slewing gear; this grease is a moly ep2 grease. once a year the water, etc... is to be drained from the center. this is done by dropping the belly pan under the machine and removing the rectangular plate and gasket. lift the machine tipping the water to flow out the drain hole. replace plate. then untop the machine either between or beside the battery box or between the lift cyls you will spot an oval plate. remove plate and manually pack the grease between the teeth (3-5 teeth seen at a time) pack grease so it is approx. 1/3 up the tooth measured from the bottom. swing and grease, swing and grease, repeat until machine has been swung 360 degrees.
we had a 270 deere come back from the shop with in a month the rubber was pushed out by the zerk.. of course that crew would pump 3 or 4 tubes of grease ON the hoe daily....but what can you do when you say you only need 4 or 5 shots per zerk... then they reply "you no tell me"
mr kobelco i am sure that someone prior to me has way overgreased it... the seal is hanging out in one spot. i have only put on maybe 40-50 hrs on it. kinda wish i knew it was this bad when i bought it. so what will actually happen when this problem goes too far? will it stop turning or something? it is working just fine now. no weird noises or anything. maybe you could tell me... approx how much is the swing bearing going to run me? havent had time to call the dealer. also, just out of curiousity... how much does my counterweight weigh? (its a sk130 mark IV btw)
Swing Bearing. eianwb, I know the U.K.- U.S. pricing may not be the same, but the average costing on swing rings is about £100 a ton after 7 tons, so a 130 ring is about £1300 here, I fit plenty of these things at least 3 a year, I do them by myself and allow 2 days to do it in, this includes humping the rail sleepers (Timber Baulks) to crib the excavator up, I never drive out the Carbody from under the top works as there is no need, even if you have a bolt or 2 to drill out, the best money spent is on new rings, (my Thoughts) after a few calls to different outlets you should see the price come down a good bit, the recon, rings are a bit up an down in quality and are best left to used equipment dealers, if you go to change it yourself, I will post some pic's of how to pop a new ring in. tctractors
hi all new here had to jump in on this one how big of a machine are you replacing a rotec by yourself in 2 days? :usa
Im going to be changing mine on my Komatsu PC-120 this year I'd love to see some pics of the process. I have a fork lift that I was planning to use to lift the cab off the tracks so that would save me some time from having to block it up. I guess being a beginner I should probably plan on a week for to get the job done?
Ring bearing , Mljohn, upto 21ton swinger is not hard to do by yourself in 2 days, if you have the help of a driver that can do as he is told (and you trust him) it is a lot better to cope with this task, having the correct blanking plates or plugs for the rotary coupling is half the battle, a common swinger needing a new bearing in the U.K. is anything called a Daewoo what ever Numbers you care to put after it, I would have fitted about 15 new rings to this make of machine, I on average would leave my House with a Trailer full of timber + 3 double lift jacks(I always have 1 in my truck) blanking plugs, keg of grease to re-fill the grease trough, and a small drip tray, then travel to the site. average distance about 65 miles, then get stuck in (most often in the rain U.K. Sunshine) first thing is to vent the Hydo tank and do the pipe work and drop the rotary couping down onto a bit of timber cribbed into the inside of the carbody, the coupling often hangs by the track motor pipes alone and needs no support??, then loosen all the bolts in the bearing , and take out all the bolts that are in the cross carrage area close to the tracks as these will be hard to reach when you start to set thing free also if there is a swing lock you need to remove these bolts above it before you set the top works in its parting position, I then leave 2 bolts 1 each side in the top bolt ring to lift the bearing with the top works as its raised off its perch, once the slew ring is just higher than the grease path, I put timber under the bearing onto the carbody, then drop off the bearing by whipping out the 2 bolts, then send the top works up higher to clear the swing pinion of the bearing, drag out the bearing towards the front bucket, then pack timber as needed , clean out grease trough and top -bottom surfaces, poke in new bearing , refill grease path, it needs loads but only to the set amount 1" depth, then throw it all back together, as you wipe you hands clean to get off home it stops raining, if it takes more than 2 days you have ether had a nightmare with bolts or drinking to much Tea. smiling tctractors
pics plz i would also like to see some pics of the process as it sounds like something i can tackle this winter.
A few shots of a slew ring swap out. Hope this helps! Tctractors
ring swap. those pic's of the Daewoo were taken to show off my cribbing up to another chap that makes a right crap job of cribbing up machinery (Nicky Lamb), I hope this gives you some idea of this type of repair, I use 2 lines of rail track timbers with even sized packers about 3feet long, a pile of packers placed handy to follow the jack's up to keep things a bit safe, A few tip's worth remembering, if you fit the widest bucket to the arm it helps, dont have people about when you do this ( they do my brains no good) don't use the tracks to pack off, as the top rollers will not carry any loading, you can use the Carbody as an extra place to put some packing if you start to get a sweat on, I often place a bulk of timber from the track to the bucket to keep myself set firm on concrete, dont use other bits of kit to lift anything but the slew ring into A position from were you can push the ring into place by hand, finaly set and mark the bearing bolt location before you poke it on its perch, P.S. the quicker its done the safe you will be, dont leave it up in the air for days scatching your Backside, get her up, then get her down if you can in the same day, best regards tctractors
That is some seriously good work and advice from TcTractors there. I have always been led to believe sell it or walk away when it comes to the slew ring, but that may just give one or two people trying to eek an extra year or two from a machine in these difficult times a bit of reassurance. Back to the original question of how much play is acceptable, the answer depends on if you are a seller or a buyer
how does the bearing get under the car body? forklift? hand hump? no need for the jym after one humps all that cribbing.
Work out, mljohn, the rail timbers are the ones that 2 average men are needed to hump about, include me in this task so I only lift 1 end at a time, as for getting the bearing out, its thick with grease and slides out a treat towards the front bucket, how you get the new bearing up and in is simple enough,if you have no other kit on site I use a pull lift off the boom to help with this minor detail, the hardest part of the job is getting paid???, the largest ring I have fitted (with a Co own fitter to help) was on a Cat 245 a good few years ago, this was a right Dog to do as I was told its weight was about 46 long tons, the jacks had a hard job poking that up in the air. tctractors ps. I do have loads of picks of this bearing swap event,some on Household rubbish tips.
Something else I just thought about. My bearing needs to be replaced but I wont have the time or the money do replace it untill next year. Will waiting to replace it wear anything else out? I use this machine to clear land and dig ditches at my farm so its not getting used every day and when it does get used its usually for only a few hours.
ALM, the worst damage would be to smash the swing box, the small pinion gear might ether get a blow or be made to mesh at an odd pitch, on some excavators the bolts are made to come loose by ring wear??? I once fitted a new bearing in a Daewoo 210 or 220 with only 1600 hrs on the clock, this was in a waste sorting station, I had a good touch that week as I removed a transmission from a Terex dump truck and swapped over to rings so I was set to buy the Beer, all in the same pitch. tctractors
Here's a few shots of a little jigger that I poked a roller race into on a Rubbish Tip,
tctractors is that your service truck in the background?
TC Nice pictures of the Slew Job. I have got say great job. We just finished up a Komatsu PC 400. No pics though. We are fortunate to have an overhead crane and just pick the house off of the undercarriage.
wrench one that must be a hell of an OH crane to do that. also i am in the same boat as ALM... i am a farmer and use the machine kinda here and there... i dont think i put on a full day in the thing since i owned it. thanks for the pics, keep em coming if you could, never enough info when learning about this kind of stuff for me.
mljohn that was my Toolbox in the back ground , I have a Fancy new one(L/Rover) now with a button for everything, the Komatsu dealers near me always lift off the Counter weight then lift up the top works when they fit new roller race's, sometimes I get odd looks at my Low Budget way of doing this task, but it always works, the average cost would be about £600-£700 depending on the travel distance and bolt snapping agro. tctractors
just seems like a load of manual labor not being able to make use of a service truck crane. i guess getting older has me allways thinking of ways not to hump cribbing and pull on lug alls
mljohn, have you tried to find or priced any parts yet? I mean just for a ballpark figure on the new (or used) bearing. I looked on kobelco parts web and was able to get a good part number for a 130. But it depends on serial # of the machine. I farm a little myself and I know that I wouldn't be able to afford to change it untill the house fell off of the tracks !! Just FYI and not to disappoint the "new" bearing for the Komatsu 400 shipped across the water was almost 27 k.
Occasionally I get to work in the "big" shop but mostly I'm out in the rain with my little tool box.
Almost everyone that I have done I get both surfaces (underdecking and mount flange on the undercarriage) machined. This I have found to be the problem of premature bearing failure. I also use a crane on the back end and the machinery front to lift the front off. I disconnect the bearing from the upper first then lift off the upperworks. Because of the machining, I have to put it on at least 5' stands. To move the undercarriage I made up 4 fifty foot #4 lines that I have color coded and put them on the travel hoses off the top (that came off the rotary manifold)then out the front and under the machine to the rotary manifold that is hanging from the lines.(where the upper hoses were disconnected) I then run a case drain and travel speed change line into a bucket under the undercarriage. Using the machine at idle and feathering the travel levers I then run the undercarriage out from under the upper. This of course is in a shop with an over head crane. I just like the hose idea. Didn't come up with that myself, saw it and now use it and love it. Can also help in realignment. If I was to do my own Farm Excavator I like the way it was done in the pictures. Just remember with jacks lifting straight off the back and using the bucket to lift the front end. Look at the angle of the boom cylinders as they are going to want to pull it forward and off the jacks. As mentioned an operator that listens as he has to use the arm also to keep it straight.
Removing Carbody. Kenal, its nice to hear someone gets good jobs, I have only removed the Carbody (track frame) from under 3 excavators in 37 years, 2 cats and 1 komatsu, I never bother with the pipe lark although I have seen it done, I pull out the drive shafts from the gearhubs, on some early Cats you could poke a bolt in a location to release the drive,then I just pull it out from under the top works with anything to hand it will move very easy so even a small dumper will pull it, the reason I pulled the frames out was, on the 2 Cats to many snapped off bolts to remove so needing better access, on the Komatsu I had to remove rust and check for damage in the bolt area, the swing bearings most commonly used today are only single path roller jobs that are cheap cheerfull things, I have never found a need to have any Machining done, but I live in hope, on the jacking thing I find it suits me as I have total control of the task and can move things apart in small steps cribbing up as I head skyward, I most prefer to do this task by myself or with a driver I have had my eye on and can trust to do as he is told, the timbers I put from the bucket to the Carbody, are a great aid when doing thing on slippery ground like Concrete tctractors P.S. I have yet to find a Co in the U.K. that will pay out for a Crane, they don't want to pay me???
if the seal is out of the machine and you have only put 40 or 50 hrs on the machine you may need grease in the bearing and your dealer or you can replace the seal in the machine if the proper amount of grease is not in the bearing to low it will cause the bearing to feel like it has a lot of movement in it. i have seen lots of bearings that were good just not greased properly.
I changes a rotec in a day up to a 36 ton machine if there is two guys working and have some previous experience of this. Always used a mobile crane to lift the back end and the hoe in the front. You can use the mobile crane to swing the superstructure to the side to get god access of the turntable.
Tctractors. Have you ever replaced a turntable seal without splitting the machine? Like a dummy I over packed the slew area and now it's dripping on the carbody. :BangheadThe bearing is tight so I don't want it to get moisture or dust in there.
Yes that seal is replaceble, it goes in a groove machined into the bearing. You can get one from your dealer with the glue that holds it in. Make sure that groove is spotlessly clean, its a easy job.
I have severe side to side lash on my IHI 17NE. Its hard to do jobs close to a house or other important things. What would cause this? How do I fix this? I have about 18" or more lash at the bucket. When I let off from turning, it just stops instantly and slops back and forth. no slow down.
Good day Please see attached may be useful Kind regards Uffex