One tilt cylinder on my older Cat VC60D forklift started leaking pretty badly so I'm taking it in for a reseal. And I decided to go ahead and do the second one as preventive maintenance since I'm pretty much in it. The couple hydraulic shops I've called said they're on a two-week backlog (crazy!) for cylinder reseals so was thinking of going to Cat but I'm assuming it will cost substantially more. My question though is does it really matter quality wise if I take them to a regular hydraulic shop versus dropping it off at the local Holt Cat? Any reason why I wouldn't take them to a regular shop? I'm curious as almost every hydraulic shop I've been too looks and feels like, well, a hydraulic shop. As do the folks working there. The dealerships are much cleaner, organized, and seem more proficient but my cylinders just need a reseal. I attached the parts page in case helpful to look at parts.
The guys in the hydraulic shop know what they're doing, the dealer who knows what you'll get. Shop will probably be cheaper and any guarantee the dealer will be faster ? I'd wait the 2 weeks. Actually I'd do it myself, but that's not what you asked. Joe H
If you can't do it yourself, take it to a hydraulic shop. Its what they do everyday.
Most Cat dealers generally don't specialize in the Lift Truck Product line - just sayin'......... Additionally there are only two chances of a dealer service department having someone with forklift knowledge, slim and none. Also lift truck service/parts information is not held in SIS. You have a Parts Manual as I recall. Why not reseal the cylinders yourself.?
So...I'm a bit surprised the hydraulic shop is winning hands down on this one. But just a bit surprised, not a lot. Yeah, I know. I'm not exactly proud to admit I'm taking these into a shop instead of doing them myself. Two things stopped me from fiddling with them. First, I couldn't get the large gland nut to break loose. I don't have the right spanner wrench and nothing else I had was working. Large pipe wrench and hammer with large drift punch didn't budge them at all. I don't feel like buying a tool to use once...or even twice as I have two cylinders. I'll take another swing on the gland nut once I get the cylinder off the forklift but my hopes aren't high. Yes, a parts manual magically appeared in my inbox the other day. But that's the second reason why I decided not to mess with these: I can't locate the seal part numbers in SIS so I doubt I can get good seals from Cat. Yup, a wise man let me know SIS doesn't have lift trucks (aka- forklifts) in the system which is why I posted the page from the magically appearing parts manual. Searching the internet reveals the kits but by the time they come in and if I don't botch them when installing them (which is likely as I don't have the special installation pliers), I might as well let the pros do it.
Order 3 kits and be prepared to scrap one of them while you gain experience in seal installation.? Is this your tilt cylinder.? It doesn't look that hard to get apart. If the gland #5 is tight it will probably respond well to the "ball pein hammer technique" on the outside of the barrel to loosen it. Anyo of the Part Numbers in that listing that are in the form "91xxxx", then you can probably search for them in SIS by typing the number as "091xxxx". Worked for me.......
Yes, #5 is the culprit. I have the cylinders in back of the truck and should be able to try a few whacks with a BFH when I get to San Antonio tomorrow and have access to my dad's machine shop. I think he had a larger spanner wrench if I can find it. If I can't make progress I'll take the cylinders to my favorite hydraulic shop and then head out on vacation with the wife the following day. Cylinders should be done within a few days of us getting back in town so at least I won't be needing the forklift while we're out.
The ball pien hammer technique Nige refers to is a method of doing it, not just smack it with a BFH. Somewhere here is a post with pictures of what to do. Joe H
Ballpeen hammer trick paid for my membership first go. Hasn’t failed me yet and going on over 20 cylinders.
Okay- thanks for all the advice. I'll try to loosen up the cylinders when I get to San Antonio to drop off the dog at my Mom's before our trip. As mentioned, my dad's shop is a small but very functional machine shop and there's a better assortment of tools to put against a stubborn gland nut. My preferred tool will be a lead mallet if I can find it. If not, there's multiple brass mallets to choose from before I grab a ballpeen hammer. We use soft material hammers all the time to align parts in lathes, mills, jigs, etc. without leaving a mark. The other reason I prefer to use my dad's shop is because it's a machine shop so I don't mind getting busy with hydraulic cylinders there as opposed to my shop which is a prototyping shop and not exactly the place I can have oil on benches and floors. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
See this thread for a better description of how the process works. @willie59 and others explained it pretty well. Someone else also included photos. Hoist piston end cap removal question? Trying to get the cap off to install seals in my Lull hoist cylinder piston. It seems frozen / rusted. I had a adjustable pin spanner wrench and I did the oppostie side and it came off easy. It now started to deform one hole as the pins are not really big enough and it slipped. :( I don't want... HeavyEquipmentForums
This is from Willie 59 on the ballpeen procedure. I heat cylinders for gland removal only as a last resort. Heating (expansion) and the subsequent cooling (retracting) can possibly distort the steel from it's original shape. You have an aluminum gland in a steel cylinder, dissimilar metals, it's not uncommon for the two to get stuck. Here's what you do, I've done it on so many cylinders and it does the trick. Ballpeen hammer. Get right at the end of the cylinder where it meets the flange of the gland. Start peening the steel of the cylinder. With each peen stroke, move the next peen straight back down the cylinder. Index each stroke close to the last peen you made. When you've moved about the distance the threads/seals are in the cylinder, that would be just where you meet the cylinder retract fitting welded on the cylinder, index your peen strokes over to a new line to peen. Continue peen strokes up to gland. Index to new line, back down cylinder, etc, etc. Go all the way around the cylinder for best results. What's happening by peening the steel is it slightly cold expands the steel to make the inside diameter just a fraction larger, thereby giving clearance needed to release threads on the gland. She'll screw right out. You can start off with widly spaced peen blows and try it. If it won't turn, peen again with closer spacing. I've had to peen cylinders practically covering all the steel of the cylinder end, but eventually, they turn loose. :cool2
I find it is generally pretty handy to have the machine you are working on there to work on the cylinder. Get the gland nut off by whatever method you choose, pull the rod out and then put the rod end back on the machine to hold backup while you get the piston nut off. Sometimes they take a pretty good sized breaker bar and/cheater pipe. You can do it in a vise on the smaller cylinders, but you certainly don't want it slipping when you are trying to break loose that nut. Also, check you gland nut to make sure it doesn't have a set screw or snap ring before you get started. I don't know about Cat, but my Case cylinders have a little set screw you have to find and remove before you start with the gland wrench.
Thanks for the additional ball peen instructions. I think we're doing the same technique but I start off with a few good whacks with a soft-head hand sledge all the way around the threaded area. Using a heavy but soft sledge temporarily deforms the material so it breaks the crusty bond. If that doesn't work, then yes, the ball peen method that slightly breaks the crust but also slightly expands the material is next. This is the same reason why you don't sandblast car bodies as you deform the sheet metal. Each sand grain acts like a mini-ball peen and deforms it ever so slightly but all those impacts add up quickly with sand blasting. Yes, I generally break nuts loose while still on the machine but I just didn't have the room or right tools for this job. I'll double check but I don't see any set screws or snap rings. I think she's just being stubborn and wants to wrassle a bit with me. No problem- I'm game for her as I've got bigger tools a bit later today. We'll see who wins this afternoon.
Okay- quick update. Traffic was pretty slow for me to get to San Antonio so I didn't have any time on the gland nut before I had to turn around and head back to Austin. On the way back, I stopped at my hydraulic shop (right off the highway) and the wait is now 3 weeks long. I saw the row of pallets full of cylinders needing rebuild- it was the biggest backlog I've ever seen there. So....I just kept on heading back home with my cylinders. I'll order the seals so they'll be delivered by the time I'm back home. More to follow on this next week....
Your dad has a machine shop. To me, that means he has the proper wrench already, just have to remove a little extra metal here and there until it fits.
Do yourself a favor and get the $70 set of cylinder rod seal installers. Larger cylinders getting the seal in isn’t too bad but small ones are a pain Resealing cylinders is easy usually unless you get a crappy design
A set of these are a good investment, you'll need them next time too. Amazon.com
I'd be willing to make a bet that the Cat dealer sends the cylinder out to a hydraulic shop anyways.
Thanks for posting those- I didn't realize those were available for just a few bucks. I grabbed a set. I still haven't had time to play with the stubborn cylinder but will later this week. Seals are delayed anyway due to the polar vortex messing up shipping.
That was my first thought when I read that post lol.
If you've done any mechanical work at all, those cylinders shouldn't be too hard once you get the gland out. I've never used those goofy pliers, a cheap, blunt regular screwdriver works just fine if you're careful. You will probably need to have one anyway to work that rod seal all the way into place. When I set out to rebuild a cylinder, I clean the bench up like an operating table, lay everything out on clean towels in the exact order they go together, and make sure I have an hour to be undisturbed to put it together. Make sure you identify every seal needed in the kit before getting started, now days the wonderful thing is they have less available kits with more options for seals to reduce the total number of kits to keep in stock. Also, THANKS DEERE, John Deere makes you order the gland kit and the piston kit separately for each cylinder. And, of course, there are several different orings and rod seals in each kit you have to sort through and find the right one.
We have spanner wrenches for changing out milling cutters, lathe chucks, etc. but nothing strong enough to take a cheater bar. A two foot pipe wrench without cheater bar didn't budge it the first go around and just haven't had time to mess with it since. The gland nut has 4 notches on the outer ring which isn't typical tooling for us. Of course I could make a wrench specific to this gland nut...but again it's a time thing as I have a lot of other irons in the fire that are keeping me busy. Good advice. I'm mainly worried about the gland nut seals and not the piston. But will replace the piston seals as long as they show up and look like they fit.
Had some free time today to work on getting the gland nut off the cylinder. The biggest issue I had earlier was trying to hold the cylinder securely while getting a good bite with a pipe wrench on the thin section of the nut. I understand that normally this would be done with the cylinder still installed and you'd break the nut free before taking it off but I couldn't get a good bite with the cylinder installed as there wasn't room. So to be fair, while I had a two foot pipe wrench on it earlier, I probably couldn't get full leverage as the cylinder would move allowing the pipe wrench to twist off. Anyway, I finally figured out a way to securely hold the cylinder in my hydraulic press with a 1/2" impact drive extension to pin the back end of the cylinder. I grabbed the 4ft pipe wrench and with one good "umph" she broke free. Didn't need to do the ball peen hammer trick this time. Front wiper seal was brittle. Middle seal was pliable but very hard. Back seal was as brittle as the wiper. Now just need to wait on the new seals to come in. So much drama for such a dinky cylinder...
If you don't have a local hydraulic shop, Hercules seal in Florida can match anything. But those little bits might be a hard one. They do have a pretty knowledgeable crew so might be worth asking them if your seals don't show up. Joe H
Now THATS using your head.!! I’m impressed..!!
You have an advantage in that you have the Cat part numbers already. Most seal companies would have a cross-reference to their brand surely.?
@thepumpguysc Looking back at my pics makes me realize how ridiculous it was to use a 4ft pipe wrench on that little guy...but it WORKED! @Nige - using the Cat part number 911726 is how I found the seal kits on the internet. Seems to be cross-referencing to Daewoo parts too. The funny thing is when I stopped at our hydraulic shop a couple weeks ago (the one who had the 3 week backlog), I even asked if I could just buy the seals from him since I had the part number. He said "Not really. We open up the cylinders then try to match with seals we keep on hand. We don't have kits, just a lot of individual seals." Sounds about right as I'm assuming hydraulic seals are pretty much standard sizes like o-rings. But there I go assuming again...