Was talking to Frank Smith (designer and builder) the other nite and we talked at great length about his Sanders and Lowbeds After talking to Hayesno1 we thought that there is still enough of these units still around to warrant a thread of his own. They are still very much in business and as I said before they are doing well!!! However their area now is Mining mostly and they still build the sand Box's but just a little bigger now. Instead of the old 12-17-and 24 yard box's they build 140 CU YD box's as well as the huge lowbeds for Mining application. Let post all the Smith stuff we can find still around. The very first LowBed they built went to MacMillan Bloedel down at Shawnigan Division and its still going strong down at NorthWest Bay. Its unit #was X136 They also built a detachable off highway lowbed for M&B Sproat Lake Division. It went up to north end of Island.
Smith sander box #M39 on M&B Hayes HDX unit #H278
Smith lowbed M&B unit #X136 with Hayes HDX tractor unit #H27
Smith 150 ton folding gooseneck. Is this the detachable off highway lowbed that went to M&B Sproat Lake Division? Now it runs for WFP Port McNeill Div.
More pics of same lowbed
Yair . . . Hayesno1/HDX I have to ask . . . what is the application for a sandbox, what is it used for and why? Cheers
You beat me to it Scrub. I would like to know too.
to sand the roads in the winter for traction
So what are the screens on top for? Loading out of a bank run type material so the truck basically is a sander and a screen? Living in the south I have never had to deal with much snow or ice.
yup, keeps rocks and frozen clumps of sand out of the box.
No that's Port McNeills lowbed. Lemare has the one from Sproat, and Juene Landing has the the one from Kelsey Bay.
075; Thanks for clearing that out. I found a few pictures of Sproat Lake Div. lowbed I think. Not the best pics as I was more interested in the Pacific P16 truck. But for sure it is Smith and an old M&B lowbed. Maybe HDX can tell what unit number it had in M&B days.
More pics of Port McNeills lowbed showing it's "heavy landing gear". They are lowered to ground level when loading/unloading equipment. Sadly I have never seen it in action.
More pics of same lowbed. Pic #2 is close up showing where lowbed is attached to tractors bunk
Here is a Mack Superliner truck with a Smith sander box. It looks a bit odd I think. Sander box is to big for the retired highway truck
150 ton lowbed hello gentlemen I was wondering if you would know where I could find one of these 150 ton low beds we have just purchased two P12s they both have coal boxes on them and I am pretty sure they came from fred sowchuk in sparwood. We are planning to remove the box from one and put a fifth wheel on it and use it as a mining lowbed
Here are 2 Smith lowbeds at same spot - Ker Point logging dump. I Wonder if the folding gooseneck lowbed(pic #2-3) is Juene Landings?
Thanks for the info hayesno1 do you if they are for sale I did find a few in Campbell river but the biggest one is only a 120 ton which would be big enough we would just prefer a 150 ton
Thats Juene Landings Thurban log dump and those are our lowbeds. The smaller lowbed has had seven feet cut out of it, and we use it for moving hoes up tight roads. And none of them are for sale. The 849 Kenworth no longer pulls a lowbed it has a slip on tanker on it fulltime. The 850 you see with the slip on tanker is the lowbed truck.
075 I couldnt help but notice something wonderful under the water tank on that red KW Right in front of the step welded onto the left frame rail LOL Got excited for a minute there
Here's a few pictures I took last October of WFP's small lowbed in Port McNeil. Reg
You do not miss much do you?lol. You should come up here and tell him why an allison is better, and you would be willing to take that lump to the dump for him
Shared pics of 2 diffent Smith sander boxes. Pic #1-3 IPL Hayes HDX sander truck. When new she was BCFP unit #236. Pic #4-5 Preload sander box
Another Smith sander box sitting on a Hayes HDX. Present owner WFP. When new she was M&M unit #H297- This is the biggest sander box I've ever seen.
Hayesno1 That Smith sand box pictured on the yellow HDX (ex H 297) came from Franklin River Division. It was built as a PreLoad sand box by Smith. We had two left in Franklin around 1999 and Pt McNeil needed one so the preload one was cut apart and sent up there. Funny thing was the one that should have gone up there was not 200 yards away sitting on some logs. It was the one that Mike Murphy bought new for Sarita Division back in 1976- 77 and loaded over the conventional truck bunk. At that time Pt McNeil had only Conventional trucks no preloads so it would have been a good fit for them. It was in better shape also but was cut up for scrap not long after Weyco took control of M&B. The reason I say it was that box is because if you look at the front of the box at the top you can see the indentation where when in the raised position that indentation was manufactured to allow for the preload rear deck saddles on the back of the water tank without hitting them!!! Look at the pictures of the red one we still have down in Sarita. I took these pics last week for this thread and you can see what I am talking about. The box's built for the conventional trucks did not have this Also look at the swing out hoppers as well as the box tubing at the front of the frame assy That was to support the preload legs before they were cut off. Hayesno1 it is a 24 yard box same as the red one standing on its legs. I will send you pics of the data plates. For sure both box's are the same. Im looking for a picture of the conventional one I took a picture of years ago mounted on an HDX while he was sanding me up a hill and it did not have that indentation. I often wondered what ever became of that box after it left Franklin.
Yair . . . I'm intrigued by these "sandboxes". When you blokes get abit of time could us folks who don't have snow have a bit of an explanation as to how they work . . . I see the chute and hydraulic spinner which I assume is to spread the material just in the wheeltracks? Anything at all would be interesting, how fast you travel, how much you put on, how long does it last? Cheers.
Hayesno1 will post a couple more pics tomorrow and then maybe I can find the pictures with one in action Will keep it as simple as we can so you understand it
Yair . . . Thanks HDX , much appreciated. I wait with interest. Cheers.
HDX; thanks for sharing the information re. preload sander box and sander box for conventional truck. Now it is very easy for me to see the difference. More shared close up pics from HDX.
More close up pics... #sn and model plate.
Post #29 first pic shows the rear deck dog (only one showing other one is still in up position) These were for securing the sanding unit to the rear frame of the truck. Although the sander was firmly pinned with the 5th wheel it was still chained down to the back crossmember of the frame with a heavy chain and dogged on each side. Next picture shows the control plate for the unit that was fed through the back window of the truck and then clamped onto a bracket mounted between the seats. You can see the airlines all snap tied together. This allowed the driver to control everything from the cab but when not in use it was always just snap tied to the sander frame.Also you can see in the picture the intake for the truck exhaust .We used 5 inch flex pipe to come from the muffler to this inlet. Pic 3 shows the L/H hopper/ spinner assy or what we called the lead hopper with the speed control on it. The driver would set the speed he wanted the spinners to go by adjusting this control and both spinners would rotate at the same speed. The preload sandbox's had the hoppers that would pull out of the way as seen here so the truck could unhook and drive away whereas the conventional box's would have to be lifted off the truck with a machine. Pic 4 shows the 2 cyl Lister diesel engine that ran all the hydraulics. These were very reliable little engines and worked well. Electric start 12 volt. Pic 5 shows the king pin and rear frame bracket that you would chain down. Post 30 just above the ID Tag you can see the end of the crankshaft where you would insert the hand crank to start the Lister if the battery went dead. Very interesting feat standing on a 45 gal drum in the dark in the middle of the night trying to hold the compression release and crank at the same time to get her started!!! OH ya and then you had to pull the hand crank off as the engine was starting or jump down and run like hell cause god only knows where the crank would end up!!! There was never a dull moment when you were driving these things.
Scub Puller -- When you got on one of these sanding units for the first time it was trial and error. However once you got the hang of it things went pretty well. Every driver would pretty well set it up for his style of driving. The first thing you did was went over to the loader and loaded about half a box full of sand or whatever material you would be using mostly and then go find an old road that is not being used and set things up . Reason for this is because you end up with great piles of sand in the middle of the road (Speed bumps). First thing you did was set your spinner controls at the speed you would get the best sand spray pattern (the faster the truck speed the faster you want the spinners going) if the spinners are going too slow then the sand will just pile up in the hoppers and pour over the sides and make one heck of a mess on the road. Go to posting 15 picture 2&3 look close at the hopper gates (on the box itself) and you can see the pin and the holes where you can adjust how much sand you want coming out of the box gates and into the hoppers. The left hand gate also controls the right hand side. Smith made them like this so the driver could make all the adjustment from only the drivers side (brilliant) So after you got these where you wanted them you would get the truck to a speed that you wanted and then you would test the spread pattern. You wanted a nice spread on both wheel tracks. Then figure out how much sand you were using because as the sand empties you have to lift the box higher.You could actually empty the whole box in a couple hundred yards if you had to but generally you would hit the hopper gate switch -count to three and then shut it off again -this would sand about 50-70 feet if you were goimg at say 25 MPH. This was the best method of sanding to get the maximum distance out of a load. If you end up getting gravel or any other material you have to readjust things on the fly because it wont come out like sand does. After a while you know where you want everything.It is common for one hopper to jam up and no sand to come out when you are using poor material. Some of the sand box's were run off the wet kit and PTO plumbed into the truck itself and these ones did not need the Lister engines on them as you can see in some of the pictures. Most of the big logging companies had a surplus of big off highway trucks and would mount these box's on a truck and leave them on all year round,with the exception of the pre-loads. Smith also built a water tank insert that we used in the summer. The shop would pull the pins out of the hold down brackets and lift the screens off the top of the sand box and a 1000- 1500 gal fire tank would drop right in so this would make your sand truck now into a fire tanker.Just made the truck a little more versatile-Top heavy as hell but still worked well. Im still looking for those other action shots for you Does this explain it enough ??If not we can get more technical not a problem!!! This is the condensed version LOL
Yair . . . Gotcha HDX . That pretty much explains it. As with most things it seems like it comes down to a bit of common sense. Cheers.
Sure was an art to running them sanders, HDX! Now I know why ours was always having problems, guess the last driver did not know how to run it.
Nice picture here! My friend have a folding gooseneck with a gorgeous truck and I would really like to have that too.
The Smith Low Bed in post #3 - X136 is now down in Sarita Island Pacific Logging bought it. At least its still M&B Red
Maybe its time we talked Frank Smith into coming out of retirement and start building those 17 yard box's again. Seems the stupids cut all the box's up for scrap back in the Weyco/Timberwaste days and now there is NONE AROUND !!! These were THE BEST thing that ever happened for sanding in the forest industry. We would settle for the 17 yarders because the 24 yard box's are too big for what we have for trucks now Seems we cut most of them (the big trucks) up as well as the Smith Sand box's. It is funny how very few are around today when you saw how many they built back in the 70's They were THE BEST. There was never a sanding unit that could compare with them.
BCFP Renfrew Div. #208 Hayes HDX with Smith sander winter 1979-80
BCFP Renfrew Div. Smith sander on stand by to be used on #223 HDX Hayes preloader
camptramp old 208 looked pretty good in the pics. The sandbox on legs(PreLoad) looks pretty new. I got the word from 075 that there MIGHT BE a Smith sand box coming available soon so We will dog that one and see how things work out. Maybe we could put it on 209 just for old times sake.
The #208 was in pretty good shape in those days a little slow compared to trucks like the #223 but the controls were driver friendly, and the old bone shaker did a good job. It arrived at Renfrew in about 1973 or 74 I think it was sent over to Smith from Caycuse and made into a sand truck. In the summer time the sander was removed and a water tank was put on it. The sander for the preloader was new fall of 1979 , the #223 was set up to carry the sander only took a couple of hours at the most to switch to one from the other . Don't think the one on the preloader lifted as high as the one on the #208 . When sanding up hill ,unless you had really good material the ---- thing would stop feeding grit into the spreader . Nother better to wake you up on a dark early morning on a sheet of ice ,forward motion stop's , stuff it in reverse ,keep the wheels turning ,get it stopped or look for soft spot to ditch it on the high side in the dark. LOL I guess we were spoiled we did have pretty good back up lights.
I can only imagine the feeling of spinning out going up hill in the dark. No thanks! Many years ago I was moving a dozer, and the truck didn't have enough power to make it up the hill. It wasn't a long ride but not much fun going backwards on a narrow country road, as the truck had to many leaks for the air compressor to keep up. So you only had brakes for a little while. I backed up as far as I could up the hill behind and gave it a second try. I could see over the hill the second try, but ran out of power. So got two lessons in backing up, finally walked to the farm house and he pulled me with his farm tractor.
One winter in the mid 1980's we'd had a little snow and a cold spell ,then to top it off we a heavy rain shower , then turned cold again. The roads were like skating rinks. I can't remember if we had two or three sanders at that time, we were all laid off and I was called in on afternoon shift 4:00 PM to midnight to sand roads. First chore was to sand down the Gordon River M/L from the Gordon R. summit to Honeymoon Bay DLS. Loaded up just out of Gordon R. camp ,got to the summit started sanding about 12 Km down the hill to about 8 Km . Where I ran out of sand, the road levels off about there ,so I kept going to check point " Chicken Joe's " where there was a junction in the road to turn around at, at 6 Km. As I drove past it ,I braked and kicked the trans into neutral,as I came to a stop the truck started sliding to the ditch. I had to stuff it back in gear keep the truck moving until I was dead center on the crown of the road ,before I could stop and put it in reverse and back in to the junction to turn around.
Sounds like ice skating with a sander would be enough to keep your eyes open during the night shift. Anyone else ever notice how slow things are moving along when all is good? Then how fast things happen when things are going wrong.
M&B #H33 Hayes HD sander truck with Smith sandbox
120 ton Smith Could this be an old BCFP lowbed, now is in Powell River.
Greatwestcam That is a great picture of the lowbed but you forgot the truck I just know from what I see in your pictures that the truck is ex BCFP unit 6-238 from Renfrew She was bought by Kip Brown at the Ritchie Bros auction many years ago and then I found her over there in pieces then she disappeared. 69Hayes told me she was up in some inlet hooked to a lowbed so from what I can see of the truck THAT IS HER Yipppeee she is still around
HDX, how in the frig do those pictures tell you what truck that is!?!?! All I can tell is its a preloader with 90' rears lol. I'm not doubting you just curious!
ben46a Lets just wait and see what Cam has to say-- Then I will tell ya OK And no I have not seen her for many years. And no I have not talked to anybody or been over there but that's what she is LOL
OK, sorry to miss the truck, here is a few pics. They both look to be in good condition, did see it has the winch up on the water tank, as HDX said these were BCFP spec trucks.
Its the ex BCFP #6-238 for sure the winch in the water tank the guard over the winch and the extra step on the drivers side ,for a short former driver John Mouat to climb aboard. Not sure about lowbed being ex BCFP seems to me BCFP bought Willock lowbeds .
The two of you never cease to amaze me with your sharp memories and knowledge of these trucks and their history! I'm lucky if I remember whether I brushed my teeth or not
ben46a I told you I would tell you how I knew it was 6-238!!! Well when you look at the pics Cam posted yes you are right it only showed the back end of the truck. Well that's all I needed to know it was that truck Look at the rear diff's "Narrow Track" most of the BCFP trucks were narrow track (10 feet wide outside the rear tires) The reason I knew this was to see how close the maxi boosters were together on the front axle of the truck-- as opposed to the standard track (11feet wide) so that was the first clue and second was the rear apron (Ramps)for the trailer to climb up the back of the truck. Those ramps were special to BCFP only --then look at the semi turn table and the outboard rollers on the gooseneck of the lowbed another BCFP only thing. Last of all this was the only ex-BCFP winch truck to end up over in that area. I didn't mean to rattle you or anything --its just that I know a lot of these trucks and a lot their secrets . Sounds stupid but every Hayes truck was different in some ways and after scoping them out all these years and seeing them you just get a thing for them. Kind of like you when you meet an old friend you have not seen for years LOL
I am with Ben on this one, you guys are just to much. As I have said a few other times you need to write this stuff down, so others can learn and know about these wonderful truck in the years to come. It is very amazing to me how you do it, then darned if your aren't correct. No smoke just fact, no wonder I enough this site so much.
120 ton Smith lowbed - same as post #46
Ex M&B KW 850 model with Smith sander box. Present owner WFP. Menzies Bay summer 2014.