So i am still having problems with this machine. I have put it on the back burner since last winter and it is still driving me crazy. I started a thread a while ago called Cummins injection pump help. To start from the beginning, i was pulling this machine around the shop to get it ready for a job. I pulled it up to the door shut it off and went in to get some tools. When i came back out i re-started the machine, lowered the jack and extended the axles. I was going to adjust the swing control and tried to run the functions and everything that runs the boom was dead. The EMS system was tripping and locking everything out. I tried to look everything over for obvious problems and couldnt find any. I called Snorkel a couple of days later and the tech walked me through a few things to try which i did with no success. It always seemed to me that there was a weak ground wire or a drop in voltage somewhere i couldnt find. Anyway i went to work on it again a few weeks later and the machine wouldnt start (which was never an issue). After going through everything i knew to do i called a mechanic. The mechanic and the people who replied to my cummins thread said the injection pump needed rebuilt. I had that done and replaced it and still nothing. So that brings us to present and i still have no idea what to do. I dont want to load this thing up and take it to a shop (which is my only option given the companies around here who know this machine) and spend 20,000 to find out. I have a little time to work on this and i have no idea where to start. Things i have tried: Blew all lines out from injection pump to tank, cleaned tank and replaced fuel, replaced batteries, replaced fuel filter, blew out injection lines, replaced some fuel lines, ran a jumper wire to the injection pump Questions: Does the computer or EMS system have something to do with this not starting? I have tried to run a jumper wire to the fuel shut off solenoid. How likely is it that the injectors are bad? The machine cranks a little hard and slow even with new batteries, what causes this? I am totally stumped so i am willing to try about anything........ Thank you!!
I feel for ya Barklee, I've had to deal with a couple of Pro 126 units in the past. Quirky machines. No, quirky bastards is more appropriate. The least little anomaly will make the EMS turn flips and shut down operations. Go through all the diagnostics, find no faults, and miracle of miracles, the dang thing works, even though you fixed nothing, just for it to flip out again for no apparent reason. As for the engine, it's been a long time since I've worked with those machines, but I don't recall the EMS having anything to do with the engine, it just locks out hyd functions. There's likely some form of high coolant temp or low oil pressure that would kill engine, but if you've put voltage jumper to fuel solenoid, that would rule out those as possible causes. I don't recall the Cummins engine thread you posted, but given what you've posted here, you pretty much said it was a running machine, engine anyway, and it sat for a few weeks. Suddenly, it wouldn't start. I fail to see how an injection pump could go south on a running engine from simply sitting for a few weeks. If you put voltage jumper on that fuel solenoid, it should fire off. If not, there's something not right, and I'm not saying problem is with injection pump itself. Slow cranking even with new batteries? Cables are always important, ground as well as positive battery cable, but you've probably already checked those. Problem can be starter as well. I've seen plenty of those starters on Cummins B series engines get worn inside (poor brushes and commutator) that really drag when cranking, pull a lot of amps. Have a freshen up done on starter, and they crank proper then. I hope you get that thing sorted out. But then, I could never get a Pro 126 fully sorted out.
Any bright ideas on getting the thing running? I will say that we dont use this machine very much and the fuel i removed from the tank was nasty (smelled bad) would that cause any issues?
Well, I not up to speed on just what happened. Running machine, then it wasn't running, rebuilt injection pump, did it ever run after rebuild? Have you cracked open the bleeder screw in the fuel line coming from filter and operated hand primer pump to make sure fuel is there? Have you put voltage (and ground if 2 terminals) to fuel shutdown solenoid? Did you hear solenoid "click" when you put power and ground to it? Did you crack open at least one fuel line at injection pump to make sure fuel was coming out delivery valve? Very very rotten fuel may cause a no start, but from what you've stated, it's really not sat all that long since it was last running, hard to imagine fuel could foul that quickly.
It never ran after the rebuild. The mechanic actually put the new pump on the machine, changed filters, primed system, cracked injectors, etc. I dont know if he ever actually got fuel out of the injectors though. I know i blew out all lines and primed system up to the filter assembly, i never checked the injection lines. I am not sure solenoid clicked when i put power to it, but i think it did. There's never anyone at the shop when i tear into these projects to help me. I think the mechanic was tired of trouble shooting this machine and basically said i think maybe the injectors are bad (now leave me alone). I think that is BS, it has to be something simple. What is required to make this run? Fuel, compression, air, power to fuel solenoid...... What else to check? I will more thoroughly check the fuel system to ensure there is fuel to the injectors and clicking at solenoid in the next few days. thanks
LoL, I certainly hope you're using the term "mechanic" very loosely barklee. Can you provide us with some good pics of injection pump and views of fuel components, lift pump, filters, etc?
yep, might take me a few days but i will get it. This "mechanic" is a big truck guy and i dont think he really even wanted to do the job. he stays booked just doing that type work so i dont judge him too hard...... he was just trying to maintain his truck business with us is my guess.
I had a minute to mess with this today. I crawled under the machine and tried to put my ear to the fuel shut off solenoid. I ran a jumper from the battery and i couldnt hear or feel any action. Called the company that rebuilt the pump and they did not replace this when they rebuilt the pump. I am hoping that is the problem. They are going to come out Friday and check it out so i have my fingers crossed.
Keep us posted.
OK, fuel injection company came out today and check the shut off solenoid. They got that working and got fuel to the injectors. The problem is that when you crank the thing over it dogs the starter after a few seconds. The hoses on the hydraulic pump are flexing like they are under serious pressure. Seems to me that the small rectangle shaped part on top of the pump with the 1/4" hose is an unloader to maintain pressure and keep the lines from exploding and regulating pressure from the pump. Do you suppose this is shot? Can it be repaired or cleared of a blockage or sticking action? Any help would be great. I think this may actually be the problem! This is a 2001 year machine. Thanks
That little gizmo that has the 1/4" line on it is the "pump compensator", it's what controls pump output by sensing the demand of the machine hyd system, it does this via the 1/4" line, aptly called "sense line". Sounds like your pump is staying at full stroke, compensator is not "de-stroking" pump. If I recall correctly, you disconnect that sense line, plug the line with appropriate hyd fitting plug, crank engine. If pump stays at full stroke, likely a problem with compensator. If it doesn't stay at full stroke, problem somewhere else, likely problem with pump control valve.
Okay. i took that compensator off the pump earlier. I was told to bump the pressure setting back and forth a few times to try to free things up but i couldnt get the screw to turn at all. I will get a plug and see whats what tomorrow. I was thinking that this was the culprit. I have a TB60 at the shop, i might try to swap the parts if they look the same...... think that will work?
If they had the same pump, would likely work.
I removed the smaller part on the top today and swapped it from the tb60. No luck, no change. What about the part with the stud and nut? I was going to attempt to swap this as well but it seemed to be very messy given there is no oil shut off on the hydraulic tank. Is this the problem maybe? I have very little idea what im looking at here so i am a bit lost. The top part i removed appears to be the pressure adjustment and the lower part appears to be the unloader, is that correct? I attached a pic for reference
I can't see enough of that pump to tell what it is.
Tough to get a good picture. Try this one.
I don't recognize that particular pump, can't really comment on it's components. You might try to contact Snorkel USA and see if they have technical info on that pump. I've called them several times in the past and they've been pretty good at getting info from them.
Yea they are very helpful. I tried looking in the parts and service manuals online. They dont show a good view of whats what or even give a part number that i can tell on the listing. I was told by the dealer that snorkel parts are at least 3-4 months out of stock and up to 8 months! That is crazy, hope i dont need anything.....
I have another question, this is for a Snorkel TB60. The one i swapped parts on today. It has been sitting for several months without being used and i moved it this morning and the house wont swing. Not from the ground or platform controls. When running it from the ground it will swing about an inch in each direction but thats it. Never had any issues before so its a bit strange. I was thinking maybe someone installed the travel pin when it was brought back but it doesnt have one. Any ideas on this?
It's been quite some time since I've worked on Snorkel machines, I recall they have complex wiring systems, kind of hard to follow. I would start by checking voltage at swing valve coil, going through the electrical system first before I look at hyd issues. Start by troubleshooting using ground controls as opposed to checking using platform controls, much easier.
Any clue where that is located? Is that part of the valves that have drive, lift, and swing side by side with a wire coming out of each end? I looked the thing over pretty well and tried to diagnose the upper swing control. I am almost sure that isnt the culprit. There is power in and power out of each direction. It seems to me that there is a mechanical obstruction or something is siezed up. Although its always been maintained and greased. We have had this machine since nearly new and never had a problem other than wheel seals. My trouble is i have basic knowledge with lifts and we have JLG Genie and Snorkels. They are all very different in design so i know a little electrical, a little controls, a little of this and that but no solid knowledge of any. Snorkels are laid out much different than the rest so its a little tough. thanks
here is a decent picture of the hydraulic valves. I think the swing is toward the center of the machine.
Snorkel design is very different. Tough to follow their wiring diagrams as well. Yes, it would be the proportional valve assembly, boom, swing, drive, and telescope. First thing you need to do is identify each of those valve section and mark on them with a paint stick what they are, for future reference. Once you've figured out which valve section controls what function, if I recall, Snorkel used harness plug in connectors to each valve coil. Identify connections to swing valve and mark them at connectors. Identify boom up/dwn connectors and mark them. Then disconnect boom up/dwn connectors and swing connectors, switch them, now you'll be using boom up/dwn switch at lower controls to control swing, and swing switch to control boom up/dwn. See if problems moves from swing to boom up/dwn, and swing now works proper. If it does, that will tell you problem in wiring for swing control.
That makes sense. I will try that tomorrow. Thanks
I hope it yields some good information.
Well, worked on the 60 today. My first order of business was to check the oil in the swing gear box. I shouldnt say this but i want the info.......... it was probably empty. I put 2 or 2.5 quarts in the gear box (i have no idea what it holds). Then i started the machine and tried running the swing from the ground. No luck whatsoever. Now the gear oil is all coming out of the swing gear on the bottom. Its leaking pretty good now. So my guess is that this was empty for quite a while and now the gears are siezed and the seals are fried. Is that accurate? The strange thing is there is no evidence there was a prior leak.
Doesn't sound good, looks like you're going into the swing gearbox.
Well, back to the 126. I removed the hydraulic pump from the engine today. The engine spins freely as should now. I am guessing there is something locked up in the pump? Still dont have it running, batteries were weak so they are on the charger now.
You're having all sorts of problems with that machine. If you have a pump shop in your area, I'd consider sending it to them and have them check it out.
Yea, i've had too good of luck for too long! This ones gonna eat me alive. Just not sure which way to go on this one. They arent worth much to just sell it and i dont want to lie and say it needs a little of this and a little of that. And i also dont want to give away the farm either. Luckily im only in it on my time and a rebuilt injection pump. Also three hours mechanic labor to swap the rebuilt pump. Could be worse...... might get worse
Well, I sincerely hope you have less trouble than more. But my experience with Pro126, finicky machines of the most ornery sort. :Banghead
Well, i actually have an update for this. The shop that rebuilt the injection pump did come back and worked on this. I thought their pump was the culprit, according to them it was not. They said that the timing jumped, i guess i will take their word for it. It runs now, but i havent tried to bolt the hydraulic pump back up to see if that will work. Should i not do that without taking it to a shop for testing? Also, they said that they had to run a jumper to the fuel solenoid to make that work. Why would i not have power to this? Would that be because of the EMS system not working correctly?
Well, slowly but surely we are moving forward with this operation! We got the machine running today, bolted the pump back up and gave her a try. The machine will now start no problem, off a jumper wire. The EMS system started intermittently working but then finally gave out completely. I messed with it for about an hour and decided to call Snorkel. They basically told me that i am crazy and unless the upper battery was good (which is new by the way), and there was power going into the lower power panel (which it did) that the ems couldnt be totally dead! I argued with the guy for about 10 minutes and let him go. I was standing there messing with the box and jiggling wires and the beeper made a quick buzz. After fooling around for about 20 minutes i discovered the culprit. The large clear relay that feeds power to the box had a bad spade on the side. That bad spade happens to be what supplies the motion packs with power. So i took off both wires from the relay and stuck a fuse in between, back in business!!! Now just got to figure out why i have no power at the fuel solenoid.... Considering taking the machine in to the dealer and having the bugs sorted out at this, while im up on my luck for the moment!
I sure hope you get it sorted out barklee, every time I've tried to work out problems on a Pro126 they have aggravated me to the point of having an overwhelming desire to pour diesel fuel on it and set it on fire. Hopefully you'll get it in working order.
No doubt, really aggrivating when its not a predictable problem. Kind of defies logic sometimes. Im gonna give it another go over and then let the professional take a final look before it goes to a job, might help sleep better at night
Not only defies logic, but is capable of baffling logic to the point of leaving it crying like a baby after the dog carried off their chocolate icing cupcake. I mean no disrespect or slight to Snorkel in general, on the contrary, their smaller machines are durable and well built machines. But that Pro126, it's such a technical nightmare that has the ability to confuse its own self, I'd prefer having a JLG 120HX any day just from the standpoint of daily reliability. I do hope you get that thing sorted out though.
So....... I am proud to finally report back on this, lets say headache! Let me recap the problems. The machine died while trying to load it for a job. We were able to periodically get it to run, in the midst of this the EMS system started acting up to the point were it would start (sometimes) but absolutely nothing would work from the upper and lower control panels. So starting from the begining, i had a mechanic come out who determined that there was no power to the start solenoid. He ran a jumper and still no go. After testing a few things he determined the injection pump was bad. So he removed it and i took it and got it rebuilt. After that the mechanic re-installed and still no go. In the midst of this alot of time passed....... so i called the injection pump shop back and said their pump wasnt working. They came out and determined that the mechanic installed it with the timing a tooth off. Okay great,! so they fixed that and couldnt get the machine to run because the hydraulic pressure was building before it could start and there had to be a circuit open. So, i pulled the pump back and the shop came back and got the machine to run....with a jumper to the solenoid. So now i know the machine will run but not with the pump installed..... I called several mechanics and i could not get anyone on earth to touch the thing, so i kept periodically working through things. I re-installed the pump and got the machine to run with a jump box and a booster. After that there were still no functions so after messing with this about three times i threw a fit and started beating on the lower electrical panel with my fist...... all the sudden the EMS system powered up for about two seconds! After about three hours of looking all the wires over and shaking things i discovered that one of the large multifunction relays wasnt always making contact. So to test this i jammed a screw driver in there and everything worked like a brand new machine! Alright... with one problem solved i still didnt have any idea why the hydraulic pressure wasnt releasing on start up or why there was no power to the start solenoid. I messed around with the other two large relays and i could hear a slight beeping noise when i moved a wire to one direction... At this point i was ready to do just about anything, so i bought new relays for everything in the box, wouldnt you know that worked!!! So now just one problem, the start solenoid. Monday i decided i would go out and play around for about an hour and see if i could figure out anything. So i traced the wire down to the lower control panel and opened up the box. From there i traced the wires over to the smaller cube relays. I removed the one i assumed controled it and took it out. I removed the plastic cover for it and the whole inside was melted down into a blob of copper and plastic...... Luckily i had a relay rolling around in the cup holder of my truck for the last two months that was for another machine. By some miracle the damn thing was the exact same relay, so i slapped the thing in there and the machine fired right up! Between yesterday and today i have ran the thing for about 3 hours and i cant get it to act up, so its finally going to a jobsite next week...... All i have to say is AMEN! And I have to state again that i am not a mechanic and i could not get anyone who is an aerial mechanic within traveling distance to work on this machine, so i have been stuck scratching my noggin on this for almost two years and at least 100 hours of labor. At the end of the day though, i have a grand total of $975 in this repair. I was quoted $15,000 just to get started by a shop that was 3.5 hours away from me to work on it if i delivered to them with no guarantee of that price. The END....... For now!
You are a patient man, even though you succumbed to beating the lower panel with your fist (which it likely deserved). Good to hear it's fixed (for now), but if it were me, I'd purchase a lucky rabbits foot to help it remain that way.
Well, i didnt heed your advice on the rabbits foot... Maybe i should have! I loaded the thing on the trailer today and the basket rotate isnt working. Seems like a simple fix. I messed with it for a few hours today with no luck. As you probably know these machines have that strange hydraulic pump and valve mounted right on the basket. I tried to check power to the pump and it appears i am getting power all the way. This is a newer pump and i pulled it off and checked to make sure it was able to spin freely and it can. Any ideas of things to check? Im not too sure how these work, i am assuming that when you hit the toggle switch it makes a ground and completes the circuit which tells the pump to spin right? Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks :Banghead
Give me your address, I'm gonna personally drive up there, pour diesel fuel on that thing and set it on fire so you can collect the insurance to replace it. It's most likely a failed motor, but check it to be sure. According to the diagram there's two wires go to the rotate motor, #26 and #27 at the control switch. The way it's wired, if you flip the switch one way, it puts power on 26 and ground on 27. Flip the switch the opposite direction, it puts power on 27 and ground on 26. It should be fairly easy to test the two wires at the motor by simply using jumper wires to put power on ground on the two wires. If it doesn't respond, most likely failed motor.
You bring the fuel, i'll bring the matches!!! Naw, that things like a member of the family..... I've spent more time with that in the last fews weeks than my wife! I thought that was how it worked but i was fried by the end of the day and didnt get into it. I will tear into it tomorrow, thanks!
Houston...we have a problem...:IMO
You havent met my wife..... I joke, I joke!!! Figured it out. Broken wire that was almost inside the electric motor. Cut it off and added some wire to it and we are back in business..... For now!
And the Pro 126 sings "please allow me to introduce myself, i'm a man (machine) of wealth and taste..." (Rolling Stones, Ode to the Devil). LMAO :tong
snorkell machine hello. I want to learn about the power generator