How many here have put down soil cement? This crap really takes an good crew. BMT
I have never heard of soil cement? what is it and what machinary do you use to put it down?
Assuming it's the same thing, we had a pretty informative discussion about it a while ago. That one can be found here. Tell us more, Stump Knocker.
We first started using soil cement, the dry cement was pumped into a spreader truck that spread it at a predetermined rate. Here in Fl. it's now mixed in a pug mill,using sandy clay,cement and clean water. Motor grader,loader,roller and water truck. A good string line crew is a must!! BMT
There's another recent thread on the subject here as well. (Thanks to Milling Drum for pointing that one out to me.) Since that mill is kind of an oddball machine type that doesn't fit well in the other catagories, you guys can discuss it in whichever thread you like...
I was wondering if that soil cement works in heavy gumbo clay soils? It's no secret that here in Manitoba our provincial and municipal governments have no idea on how to build, maintain, or repair a road so I was wondering if soil cement works to stabilize clay rich in bentonite from swelling and shrinking so much? I've heard many times that in North Dakota that has the same soil as us that they're roads are a hundred times better, so I wonder if they do something different when they're building the roadbed or is it just better maintenance and upkeep than what goes on here?
Now l know what you are talking about, we did some of this a couple of months ago, first time ever. A contractor came in and spread powder cement at a pre determined rate, then a very large drum milling machine mixed it to 400 mm deep, then a large sheep foot roller pounded the hell out of it , and then I cut and bladed it into shape, and finally rolled before it went off. Didn't have to be ultra fussy with levels because soon after, it was slightly profiled out and hotmixed up to the curb level, 50 mm thick on the street, and 100 mm thick around the roundabout.
Manitoba is so behind the times lol I used soil cement in some clay that I swore they trucked in from MB. It worked so well we used it more and more on that job. The ND roads if you ever seen them build those they have way more compaction on the subgrade and a thicker gravel base. MB contractors seem to do the bare min cause of the cheap rates I seen a crew a few years back strip the top soil lay the base pack with one smooth drum then pave. on a hot day you can see the pavement roll like a wave when a 18 wheeler drives on it.
I'd use lime instead of cement on clay.
It's used in Fl where the water table is high. BMT
Yeah I agree compared to the compaction I saw going on out west nobody packs the clay enough.
I work around melbourne,(austraila) we mix the subgrade with lime first then cement, to bring the subgrade up to a better cbr.
^^^^ What's this gotta do with making soil cement and how it affects road building? Take your commercial some where else!!
I may be way off base here but does anyone use fly ash from coal fired power plants for soil stabilization the Powder River Basin coal fly ash is high in lime and mixed with water forms a light weight cement. and it is throw away by product.
Yeah I've done it before and takes alot of patientence! 2 RM-500's, 2 RM-300, 4 water trucks, 1 825, 2 vibratory rollers, and a tire roller, then 2 M blades with millimeter GPS.
Are You guys Using Mills or Mixer/Reclaimers?? Theres a big difference! both have a rotary drums but Mills are designed for grinding layers of asphault or plunge cutting with lots of water. A reclaimer/ mixer depending on the drum is used for either soil stabilization or F.D.R full depth reclamation of asphault and chip and seal roads. you have to go completely through asphault into the dirt to cool the bits on a reclaimer if used on asphault. Theres nothing worse than seeing a mixer drum shredded by a guy who rented one and tried to cold plane asphault. $$$$$$$$$$$$:beatsme
Just wondering, what does the lime do in relation to the clay, we used lime years ago on small failures in sealed roads where there was alot of clay sitting just under the surface.
I am talking about stabilizing.When building a road when you have material that is not good enough to pass for sub grade,you have to over box the depth and top back up to subgrade level with soft rock or a cheap type of rock.With stablizing you can use the existing poor subgrade and mix it with lime to dry it out,then use cement to harden the subgrade(depends on type of material).Stabilizing is cheaper/quicker then having to over dig subgrade and importing, placing material.Stablizing can reduce the depth of your pavement size.Some people on this thread are talking about stabilizing.
we use mixers but have pumps hooked up on them to spray water into the cement. We have also used them to grind up asphault as well. In Louisana we are working on highway I-49 and we have to do 12inches of soil cement on every mainline. Then have to come back put 6 inche. of sand on top of that and mix soil cement again.
Yep here in Lousyana they do most roads like that. Looks like they spread the dry cement onto the road bed and then take like a big tiller and till into the bed. They don't add any water, the soil I guess has plenty of moisture, but then when you sit below sea level ointhead
They usually mix it in dry first for even distribution and then wet mix it.
We do it this way in the Netherlands, we spread cement, mix it, spray water, mix it again then roll it, profile them with grader and roll for the last time and then it is ready to pave.
Yup mis it in dry with a RM-300 first then re mix it with a RM-500 and add water.
I'm actually working on a project right now stabilizing soil. My outfit is doing the grading of a large commercial development and another outfit was brought in to do the stabilization. They're running a CMI RS500, seems to work well. They have a spreader truck that lays out the material, then they hook a water truck up to the front of the reclaimer and pump water as they till. Compaction is accomplished by hitting the tilled up material with a vibratory sheepsfoot roller for a few passes, we have the blade touch everything up then it's finish rolled with a smooth drum roller.
Yeah we are about to start are soil stabilazation sown here, when that happens we will have 2 rm500 tillers 2 rm300, 2 14M blades with topcon milimeter, 3 water trucks, an 825H, 2 vibratory sheepsfoot rollers, and 3 smooth drums! Will get pics when it starts!
Thats a pic from last year, 2 rm300's and 2 rm500's tilling the npthbound main line, as 10 soil cement trucks lay down sement on the south bound side! You got have your ducks in a row to run an operation of that size, being off grade by a tenth, or not having the right percentage of mixture can cost thousands to fix
Do you guys run your water on manual or automatics?
The lime stops the clay from expanding and contracting which prevents cracking in the pavement,which prevents water getting into your subgrade.
im not really sure, but im willing to bet that it on auto
I havent ever figured out how to set the flow rates real well on the RMs in Auto. You usualy dont get alot of practice on the job because when its go time itsGO TIME! I just normally set the GPM I want and leave it on manual
im usualy on the blade
We used soil cement for a highway between Hythe,AB and the border with B.C., back in the 50's. As far as I know, it stood up all right. I don't remember the proportions now.
We use lime and flyash all the time often both together. When lime and water are added the pH of the soil increases which enables the clay particles to break down from highly expansive to more granular. It also creates a "water resistant barrier" that will stop the absorption of water from above and the moisture from below. Like said above flyash makes an light cement. IIRC you have 6hr. to get it on grade after the flyash is put down.
I worked on Cement/Lime/soil stabilising in 1958 in New Zealand it was we used a glorified Rotary hoe They demonstrated this machine to us in Tauranga The sales people had brought a ute load of spare parts with them to replace the hoe feet and wow they needed them. the work was instigated by an engineer that had been to the US of A in lateyears we used some other liquid that was place din the water truck sprayed on road and mix with a grader it had minimum compaction , was good product The road surface lasted for yonks
We're doing a soil cement job in page, az for a power plant. We cut sanstone out of existing ponds and crushed it, mixed in bottom and fly ash from the plant, and built berms with that material. Now we're doing soil cement on all the slopes. Probably 60 ft tall 3:1 that the 631's are dumping on. About got it all done, working on the fun part now where the 3:1 transitions to a 1:1 and meetsthe pump houses. Its a pain in the ares because we have to put 1 ft of soil cement on it. I got to finish the transition from 3:1 to 2:1 with a gannon, it was fun. Started to get so steep I was locking up the brakes on the way down so had the excavator finish the rest
Would spreading cement on a gravel road make it more durable? I'm thinking of just putting cement in a salt spreader for a 1km driveway, then the grader coudl mix it a bit and make a nice suface... Alexis
Question, Has anyone tried using glycerine as a soil cement? My neighbor generated several hundred gallons as a by-product from making biodiesel and thinks it would make a great surface binder. This glycerin is a solid at normal temperatures, so it would need to be heated, then spread across the road surface. He tells me it is water proof and environmentally friendly. We would use it where washboards are prone to form.