I picked up a nice set of heavy forks for my TL150. I am in the process of making the mounting points for the forks. I used 7018 rod 5/32 running at 190 amps with a ranger 250. I did three thick passes and the welds looked good. I then tested the mounts by picking up the rear end of a 9000 lb we have at our shop. I was only using half the forks to see what would happen. About the time the fork lift was coming off the ground, the steel bar popped right off my forks. Does it appear that I need to layer more welds, or is my bar not good steel? Or did i just over load the weld? Thanks for your time..
Yair . . . Georgia Iron No problem mate, its just the design of the joint, nothing wrong with your welds. All the weight is putting the weld into compression, if it wasn't for those little welds down the ends you could probably break those tabs off pulling up with a three foot adjustable wrench. If there is clearance you need to box the ends and/or fit some gussets on the topside as well as getting a good weld in underneath Cheers.
You may have used a piece of high carbon steel in which case you need to preheat.You might want to use a piece of steel with known composition.Those countersunk holes make me suspicious.
It would help also to have the ends welded, that way you won't be like a hinge. Much easier to break off something that is able to bend up even a little will weaken the weld.
After I posted I went back out and decided to do a 360 weld on the bar. When I turn the forks over and welded the inside, i heard a ping. That weld caused the first weld to hair line crack all along the top side. So I slowed my pace down and re welded the top side going about 4 inches at a time and needle hammered the welds. I also widened the weld to about double the rod size. It did not crack again. The rains came back in and stopped me from testing the joint again but I have never had a weld ping and crack like that. I planned to box it all in but I am worried that I have a piece of crap bar stock... It seemed to plasma good, and grind good and it even looked ok when I welded it but it seemed to ping if I ran the whole stick out in one shot... Think its my technique or ??
I agree w/ wrangler on the high carbon steel from the way the weld didn't fuse good w/ it. Even if you get it to hold I wouldn't be too trusting w/ it. Some common mild steel will fuse better. Mike
I thought the bar looked way too square, and then those countersunk holes gave me the same suspicion. The pinging proved it, plus the way the weld looks like it pulled the top layer right off of the bar. It's not an easily weldable steel. You might get it to stick, but if it breaks again, I'd get a different piece.
Yair . . . For that application a piece of Assab or grader blade could be used provided it had gussets/boxed ends as I mentioned in #3 post. No matter how good it looks I would not trust the present piece of steel without such additions on such a critical application. Even with the most suitable steel and welding technique the joint design as presented by the OP was an accident waiting to happen without a decent weld in the underneath "V". dirty4fun gets it . . . the thing is a hinge Cheers.
Scrub Puller is spot on :yup Can see some close up pictures of box ends in this post . HeavyEquipmentForums Something else I might suggest is dropping down to 1/8 inch rods around 100 amps with a little pre heat along the joint . Make first pass with 6010 or 6011 then fill & cap with 7018 .
Man that winch attachment is really cool. Thanks for the advise guys. It is appreciated. I have not been to school on welding. I am pretty much self taught. The best teacher I have had is learning from my mistakes. Building heavy duty steel reactive targets that will, withstand 1000's of shots has been a big help to show me how my welds fail. Nothing like gun fire to crack a weld. This was bizarre to me for the welds looked heavy duty, I also have not had my welds ping and break off the base material either in the process of laying the bead. Since these forks most likely will be used in some way that could hurt me or someone if they fail, I really wanted to make sure that the basic weld would hold, then add my reinforcement for safety. The lift weights 9000 lbs so I figured I would test each side and I should be more than covered for work use. As far welding 360 that was never a question. I was more curious to see if welding one side would get it done or not. The pinging happened when I welded the top side on its own and it also occured again when I welded the other side. The welds were pulling loose from the bar. I am guessing this was due to me applying TOO much heat too fast and the forks being cold. The bar was hot from the bottom weld when I rewelded the broken top side so the cooling was greatly slowed down because the main forklift beam had much more heat in it, but I am only guessing as to why the welds broke the first time. I really don't believe it failed due to the one side only being welded. I think it was more a heat and cooling issue that weaken the weld. But we will never know because I went ahead and applied the inside bead before I retested it. If you have ever wondered about the strength of a TL150 this will tell the tail. It easily picks up the back end of the lift. I did not test to see how high because I did not want to risk dropping the lift which happened on the first breakage.
Yair . . . Good one Georgia Iron The same principle applies if you are pulling some thing apart . . . cut the weld on three sides and bend the fourth side into compression and it will just break. Cheers
I still would not trust it. You have something besides mild steel in the bars. Mike
I'm no welder but would still do as td25c suggests in post #10, for a couple more minutes welding you will have a much stronger part. It might be holding today sitting still but what about when carrying a load and you hit a bump in the road, the shock load may break it right off with no to pleasant results.
Roger. In the works. I know a gent that used a skid steer as a forklift. It had no fall gaurd on on the back top side of the forks. He was lifting pallets of flywheels. Needless to say some came over the top and fell into the machine and crushed his legs and ruined him. I intend to put a gaurd on these forks and I plan to reinforce it to the max. I have tested it for shock load with a 30' steel trailer we have, bounced it and all is still holding. The welds are still sticking so far. Those main welds on the bar need to hold fast, i dont want to rely on the reinforcements. If they fail again while testing I will cut them off and run a bar that is welded the whole 5 + feet. It will not fail. The main forklift rod bar will bend before I accept a failure in the attachment area. Still surprised that the first welds failed as they did. Hard to weld bar and technique. Even though it looked good the single bead did not get enough bite. That fat weld it has now is probably triple the hold, just on the top side. I post up some more pics as I get it done. I have spent weeks on end welding now on steel gates. Welding, leather, no shade and 90 plus degree heat is getting old.
Mike, you might be right. But it has held picking up way more than the machine is designed for. That counter weight on the forklift is serious. I got it up using just each side. Honestly I think the rod bar bent just a little. Not sure but it aint straight now...
Yair . . . Georgia Iron Mate, it was completely obvious those original welds would fail, they had zero chance of holding. As I mentioned up thread the only thing that held them on was the little bit of weld you laid down the ends. If you don't want to box the ends I suggest you cut three little pieces of 2x5/8" flat or some such and weld them in from the front edge of your lifting tab to the top edge of the frame . . . the angle is extreme and not favourable but it will help take the load off the welds. A better way to do it is to shape some little plates and weld them in on edge. All the best with it, stay safe and Cheers.
Hi all, I would definitely would box in the ends. The welds may be holding well for now, but I think that as the fork attachment is used over time and the mount wears the gussets would back up the bar welds as the gussets reduce the potential of hinging as stated. Could not tell from the initial pictures, but from one of the later pics it seems you have plenty of room on the ends of the carriage for boxing in the bar stock. I have never regretted over building/reinforcing but I have wished I took the extra time and use of additional materials after the failure of hasty fabrication. Regards, Bob
I try to build things on the strong side, seems enough can go wrong without knowing it might be weak. Had an old contractor once tell me when I was building a machine shed and wondering about putting in extra braces. " If you build it to strong you will never know it" Seems to fit in many things that I build, now.
When in doubt make it stout.
Not to sound to gruff here but you stated you are not a welder you have had advice from many experienced welders and fabricators and it is clear you are working with a high carbon steel that will no doubt have to be preheated to 450+ degrees and interpass temperature kept at or above preheat temperature. If you are to poor or to tight to buy a piece of 1018 or 1045 steel that can be welded successfully without special welding processes that you have no understanding of then you have no business welding on something that can get you or someone else hurt or killed. Just because it lifted your test weight once does not mean after the abuse of many lifts it won't fail. That high carbon steel may not show the tell tale signs of cracking you are used to with normal hot or cold drawn steel it will fail all at once. The ping you heard is the internal stress of the steel and weld even if you weld it all the way around it still has internal stress and high carbon steel is very hard not very ductile. You want something that is ductile in this application.
Good post! and spot on.
Your response is appreciated, and what you stated has already mostly been previously noted. You were gruff, I am not in the welding business but as Henry Ford once stated "The man who thinks he CAN, and the man who thinks he CAN'T are generally right". Maybe you could have just chimed in with the correct process with out all the other BS. That fork was subjected to ,twice the weight on just half the forks. The weld was 1/4 of the way done. Laying a bead fat and wide at 190 amps going 360' on the 12" bar stock surely brought the temp to far above 450*.. which is what I did the second go round, along with using a 7018 rod. Once I figured out how to stop the pinging, which was the bar separating from the weld as I welded it. Some were quick to worry about supports, I was looking for why this and that did that. You know since it takes a special welding process and a individual with High Qualifications and understanding, I must just give up! Same kind of statements the pencil pushers make telling me I need this or that license or some special piece of paper from some other clown in order to do something I want to dam well do my self. I don't need other men laying out rules for how I will conduct myself according to YOUR rules which are based on rules that are for the masses, made by people who don't know how, and dont respect me or you and dont even bother to follow the rules, themselves. Thanks for the advice. This load is far above the Cases rated operating load. The back end was floating. Welds still holding.
You asked a few questions and got correct answers from a few experts and a bunch more amateurs, what's the problem? Admittedly, there were different schools of thought, but both main suggestions are completely valid, whether you choose to believe in them or not.
No problem here. The last quote had more to do with life in general and not necessarily his response. I just have had enough of people more specifically the gov, stepping into every corner of my life. Coming up with laws and licensing that are supposedly for "my safety or the good of people", when in reality it has nothing more to do with how much money can we get and how much control can we take from a free people. I read his post late and after 3 brutal days of work off site at a location with no showers, or power, or sleep and bugs thousands of em. Oh and it rained on me for 2 days and I wore wet boots and stuck my TL150. I might have came home cranky and took to his words a little to much. His tone made me feel like I do when I deal with them. For those that don't know. If you ever decide to switch careers or let's say you want to be like your grand dad and do it all. Maybe he was one of those type guys that could build a house him self from the ground up, by himself. The gov is now putting a stop to that kind of person. Now you need a builders license, a grading card, an electrical license, a hvac license, lead based paint and asbestosis card, a plumbers license, a survey, ground approval for septic, engineered plans, a license to appraise it after your done. A realtor license to sell it and I am sure I have forgotten a few. Then they get to charge you tax on it after you build it. And now you must go to a gov funded school for 4 years to get on of these so called special pieces of paper so that you can apply for "1" type license. Oh they also own all water and now require us to pay them for our health care and in some cases up to 45% taxes and when we die we must give over 1/2 of what we worked our whole life for since they can use it better than our kids can. So if your the type of person I am, I try to play by the rules and do what's right. I get hammered on everything thing. Do i now need a welders license? Can someone point me to the land of the free please?
It bothers me when someone asks for advice and then when the advice does not fit with what they wanted to hear they claim the ones giving the said advice are not respecting them! I have followed this thread from the start and feel everyone has be more than helpful and any criticism was offered with the OP's safety and anyone else around this machine in mind. Not to discourage him from fabricating what he wanted but to assist him in the safe way to accomplish his goals.
http://www.palletforks.com/5-16-att...H16Ag8Q61YKjBPmGOWhQgaAh4y8P8HAQ#.VcXpC5_D_qA Why not buy something like this? On a note I bought 2 of them at an auction once and i was able to buy them for 60 a piece brandnew
OK, I gotcha now. I don't worry too much about the "rules" as you listed them. What makes you think your grand dad wasn't supposed to have more licenses than he did? For the "land of the free", first thought was China, brief laugh, maybe Latin America? Corruption isn't worse or better, just DIFFERENT.
I was gruff because you don't seem seem to be taking any of the advise, I gave my advise from a small business owners standpoint who makes a living repairing other peoples stuff, and the liability that goes along with it, $20 worth of new mild steel would have completely changed my first post. Maybe you should have changed the name of this thread from welding help to welding pictures because it does not look like you used any of the help you got in this thread
I would like to know that my neighbors had approval for septic, don't want my well to be filling up with you know what. If I buy a house hope there is someone who can assure me that I won't get fried when I turn on the light in the bathroom. And I hope that car following my wife or daughter down the road on the interstate has adequate brakes and the driver had shown he knows how to obey the rules of the road. Ones right to do stupid/dangerous things stop where my safety and that of my loved ones begin! I did not see anyone here saying you should not fabricate this attachment you were making but just trying to point out how using the wrong design, materials or methods could lead to a failure. Usually when someone starts a thread saying 'Some Welding Help" many would jump to the wrong conclusion that the poster was looking for help, not just a pat on the back saying sounds great do what ever the.... you want to do!
As regulations Grow...Freedom Dies
I'll just repeat what I said before, " I wouldn't put much trust in it". The way the weld broke tells me it's very high carbon steel and doesn't take well to being welded. Mike