well the enviroment goobers have really gone crazy..this is one of 4 such crossings we are putting in on this road realignment project in livermore,ca..you can;t see but inside these box culverts is dirt..yes,dirt..filled up each section about 1/4 full of dirt, lay it all, then a couple laborers go in to smooth it out for...the salamanders..yup..thats what this is for
how much does it cost to train the salamanders to use the pipe?? Or haven't the green people thought about that end of it...
I find it offensive that the green police are making a provision to accommodate the Salamanders, but place no equal consideration for the Snails and Crawdads! :Banghead
I just want the salamander training manual, might make bass fishing a little easier...
Man, that's just messed up, just ain't right! :lmao
Wow, thats worse then what they did along us31 about 60 miles south of me. Apparently the wetland area that it crosses through has alot of turtles so they built a fence about 2-3 feet high to keep the turtles from getting hit, and from driving this route for 10 years before I never seen a turtle on the road.
nice work Just a few observations and let me just say before hand that I intend no criticism to anyone , Firstly over here they make us put in geotech and a min of 300mm stone and top it with 75mm of asphalt sand prior to setting the boxes. none of the boxes in the pictures have been blackjacked (tanked) All the joints are packed and sealed with a bitumen based sealer. The boxes are seated using a culvert pullers or 20t+ excavator and spreader bar The boxes are backfilled with alternating layers of 6n grade stone. The top of the boxes are capped with 50mm of concrete and 300mm of stone with nukes done at every meter /200t . The 6n is placed at a 1:1 slope backed up with 1C grade rock, and all internal joints are sealed with polysulphide and the boxes are sealed with xyelene to seal the concrete . How does this compare to your system of installation?
A fried of mine had some land on the Pleasonton Ridge. The park was trying to take it from him and they were fighting legal battles with them for years. One of their gimmicks was to accuse him of endangering a certain type of salamander. A quick search of information about that salamander showed that it didn't even exist in the hills where his land was located. They said that he had to prove to them that they were not there by doing a study. We had to clean an area of land to bare soil and then record the tracks of what walked across that soil for a month. It was ridiculous, but the park hired some college kids to monitor this and make sure we were doing it correctly. I just helped out, so I wasn't there every day. Those college kids took this very seriously and had done this on other properties all over the area. The one I talked to, a young girl, told me that she had never seen or found any sign of that type of salamander yet, and that she was very worried about them. I asked her about the book that we had which stated that it wasn't in the hills and shouldn't even be there. She said that the book was wrong and that there were there to find out where they existed for themselves. There has to be a point when those college kids realize that they are just being used for somebodies political agenda, but when that happens and how it happens is beyond me. Seeing those pictures and knowing that area, it's hard to imagine that there are any salamanders of any kind out there roaming those hills. Just another way for the government to spend money that it does't have, pandering to the wacko extremist in their pursuit of feel good policies that have nothing to do with reality. Thanks for the pics and update on your project. It's always fun to hear first hand what's going on in the Bay Area. Eddie
Just when you think you have heard it all, just try to build something in California
Stock, obviously you're unenlightened. All the extra noise involved in doing it your way would bother the salamanders ... :cool2
but what about those shrimp you have living in the puddle on the corner of your jobsite?
Be that as it may but I have more of those boxes put in for everything from fish to bovines,and pipes for badgers (to help the spread of TB) mink to help decimate the local species (not native to Eire do gooders let them out of a mink farm) and otter passes ,but it was work for which we got a financial reimbursement ,so I will take work where I get it.:Banghead:Banghead
Salamander is a common name of approximately 500 species of amphibians. They are typically characterized by slender bodies, short noses, and long tails. Didn't appear to be much water in them pictures!!
I don't know where to start, this is absolutely ridiculous. With that being said, I will resort back to "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything". Well, I guess the concrete company made out by making the boxes, and I hope for Reddot this was factored in the bid, so the extra time to lay that pipe will pay him and future generations of bass will be grateful for the job that he did. How's that?
pretty much all box culverts here in Pa have "fish baffles" to collect stream gravel during high flow. This gives the bottom of the concrete box culvert a natural bottom for aquatic species. I think it is a good idea.
Shrimp, what shrimp, I don't see any shrimp. Puddle, what puddle, I don't see any puddle either. And if you say you seen either of them, I will deny it.
Yeah, I agree. Somebody needs to call the ACLU (I guess). But seriously, I would be willing to bet that the salamanders would love any pipe, square or otherwise to get inside to escape the sun out there.
At least it didn't stop the job It does seem excessive to require box culverts for salamanders to move around. But, they are working there so it didn't prevent the road from being built. So the contracting company gets to make money to stay in business and their guys get the work to earn a living.
That is what I have been thinking about this issue. From my high school biology class an amphibian is a creature that lives in water and on land, although the books may have been re-written since then. To me that does not look like a prime amphibian habitat but I am just a self-employed lever puller so what do I know. I agree in real life philosophy with you on this issue - the money is going to be spent, so many people did get a benefit out of the construction of it. The other side of the coin is someone has to pay for it. If this project had any Federal matching funds then we all paid for it as Federal taxpayers. What I think about with spending extra money on projects for items like this, is what other, more beneficial items, could this money be spent on?
I meant at least it didn't stop the job.
I hear ya'. What I was referring to is the overall decision making on the design of these things into projects from the higher ups.
I think also, that our breed simply doesn't like to waste time and efort, even if we are being paid for it. It just isn't right ...
I agree. and that really don't look like anyplace freindly to amphibians ro me either. On the other side of the critter either being in territory or not around here we aren't supposed to have any wild felines running around but we do and the fish and game folks don't believ us until we get pictures. I've shown them several pictures and sign/tracks/scats and they still say they aren't here. :beatsme if they weren't that would be well and good, but they are and these idiots tell me otherwise? As far as the salamander thing in your area reddot and eddie, it doesn't surprise me these poeple can't take hard verified evidence for what it is. It makes me wonder sometimes if we weren't at our peak as a species in the 1800's
Dont worry JD, id be the first guy to fill that puddle in. I dont know how you guys get anything done out there.
Yep ours are bigger these were cast here to be lifted in to the cut when the road bed settles.
Reddot would you mind telling me how you cut your safety slopes? It looks like teeth marks from the excavator, are you setting your tracks to that angle to dig them, they look very good! We usually just bench of our excavations that are over 4' deep.
Check out the pics in this thread Jim. HeavyEquipmentForums
Ahhh that explains it. I'm not quit as impressed now : ) Thanks for the link!
Tree huggers at again. think I'll go dig a few up, trees that is. I thought/thunked you try to keep mud dirt out somewhat.
are they expecting millions of salamanders or something?
It is amazing how easily these mokes spend our money! No matter how much we give 'em, they always find a way to spend it all - and then some. The only people putting up high level "LEED certified Green Buildings" are the government, who else would even consider a return on investment that could run 50 years before a payback. I have worked closely on some of these Green Buildings, and to me they are a fraud. The only redeeming factor is that we in the construction business can profit from these projects, but the cost versus payback is something very few of us would spend our own money on. My 2c - Thanks
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The other day I was pushing my kids in the stroller on the way back from the park and I noticed somthing moving on the ground, before I realized what it was I had run over a salamander. Luckily for him I only got his tail and I think they can grow new appendages when they lose them. I guess we could use a box culvert undser our sidewalk:beatsme
And I see it as one of the reasons why California (and many other states) are bankrupt. What a waste of taxpayer dollars.
I saw a news story recently where there was going to be a bridge upgrade over a local river. I forget what sort of endangered species they were worried about, some sort of shellfish i think. Anyway, getting on the endangered species list means you get an unlimited budget to protect them. They spent $100,000 over 5 days relocating these shellfish from the riverbed below the bridge to the riverbed upstream of the bridge. It was good work for about 10 people, mostly shills(students) Even the reporter was rolling his eyes when he told how many shellfish they relocated. 11 was the total for the week. Oh yeah, that species will last at least another thousand years....:Banghead
they do a similar thing over here with little fences to protect newts...most jobs these days have these lttle black fence everywhere, all you hear is don't track near the fences or damage them be careful of the newts.....went on a demo job once and got held up because of bats in the building so had to pull off that job.