Ive got a John Deere 444c that has a broken starter and hasn’t been started in well over a year. On top of that the exhaust is broken so every time it rains water goes down the exhaust into the block. I am getting around to replacing the starter, but my question is what should I do before I try and turn it over because there may be water in the engine. Thanks
Assuming it is diesel you would be wise to pull the injectors and crank it a little bit. If you get water out the injector holes squirt some penetrating oil down each cylinder and let it soak overnight. Replace the injectors and bleed and it should fire up. Might want to crack the oil drain plug and see if you have any water in oil. I would change it right away after a warm up.
if it got water in the head start saving your pennys! unless your really lucky and have a big enough exhaust leak that the water wasnt getting in the motor is going to be locked up........ I would turn the motor over by hand before getting a new starter It can break the nose support if its locked up . best of luck
Ive been away and school and just got back and got a chance to take another look As you can see every time it rains water would go straight in. Is there any chance that it can be run again if there is water in there? And if so is taking the injectors out the best route to go before trying to turn it over? I dont think it can be turned over by hand.
I would take the injectors off first. put some penetrating oil in there to be safe. Diesel or kerosene would probably work too. I would put lots in there. charge battery too at the same time. wait overnight. put your new starter in there then crank for a few minutes. the oil/water should blow out the injector holes. Replace injectors. then crank and you will find out soon the results. If you dont take the injectors out and you try to start the engine you run the risk of hydraulic lockup. You can compress water. You will either bend, break, lockup, or blowout something important. AND get a new exhaust with a metal flapper. agrisupply has them for like $10.
I would do as Leon says, but before trying to turn it over with the starter get a deep socket and breaker bar and try and move the crank back and forth enough to be sure that it isn't locked up and that the valves are moving . If the engine is locked up, you might just tear up a new starter. The other thing to look at is the hydraulics and Transmission to make sure that it has enough oil for both and that water hasn't gotten into those areas.
Ok thank you for the information. I wont be able to get to this until the spring, im just researching getting ready. I actually have a brand new exhaust for it, i just haven't put it on. I want to get it running before i go through the trouble of putting a new one on. To get the injectors out will i have to take off the valve cover?
I doubt you're going to be able to get to the front crank pully and bar the engine over on that machine, you'd have better luck removing the starter and barring the engine over with a prybar using the flywheel ring gear teeth. Injectors can be remover without removing valve cover. Just be careful and don't bend those injection lines getting them out of the way to remove injectors.
It defenitely is worth a try to get it turned over but from the looks of the exhaust I would bet the engine is a total loss. As they state above see if you can get it to move at all before you spend a dime. And if by chance it is free defenitely pull the oil plug on the pan and drain out any and all water from the crank case and fill with oil to an adequate level. There could be a quart or several gallons of water in the crankcase dont chance circulating water through the oil system on a way overdue startup. If its stuck and beyond repair and you want to get her going you may be able to find a complete engine starter and all from a salvage yard at a considerable savings to a remanned engine. I hate to be negative about your luck but mother nature has likely already won that battle.
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Ok i am home for a week and had some extra time so i started taking things off. I took off the injector lines and the bolt that looked like it held the injectors down but what else do i need to do to pop them out?
Those injectors are held in by the clamp the bolt was holding. You should be able to work them out with gentle pressure. If the tips in the cylinder are very rusty or the body is rusted to the bore they may be VERY tight and hard to remove. Penetrating oil would be a good idea if you think they are too tight. Did you get it to turn over or is it stuck? Was there water in the crankcase? Engine may have access covers to the precombustion chambers where you could see the injector tips.
I can take a better picture of the engine tomorrow that shows more. I haven't tried to turn it over yet. I was able to get the manifold off and 2 of the cylinders had the exhaust valves open so im assuming they are full of water. I dont want to even try turning it over until i get the injectors out. I havent drained the oil yet but from the dip stick it looked like there could be a little water in there. Hard to tell though. So a little penetrating oil and just work at it and the injectors should come out? I thought they did but i didnt want to force anything if i wasnt sure.
Hopefully if it had water in the cyls it drained to the crankcase. If that happens there is less rust in the cyl and no chance of it freeezing and busting a cyl or liner. I have seen engines completely full of water in the bottom end and once drained and filled with oil were able to run and be used. I would expect those injectors to be very tight so good luck. I would at least try to move the crankshaft before I got too involved. If the crank is completely stuck it will require a complete teardown at the very least.
I let some penetrating oil soak around it for a few hours. I still couldnt get them to budge no matter what i tried. Could there be any way they turn in lock in there or something? The cap that i unscrewed doent even go all the way down to hold the injector down so i feel like there must be something else holding the injectors in place.
i have freed up more stuck engine than i would like to remember. first to take out your frozen in place injectors you will need a rolling head pry bar (ladysfoot) and GENTLY pry up on the notches on BOTH sides of the injector (were the feed line comes in). work from one side to the other being careful not to bend them. when they are out take one to your local gun shop and get a bore brush the same size or a little larger to clean you injector bores. then coat your injector shafts after cleaning them also with a little neverseize. now take the started back out and turn your engine over BY HAND! DO NOT TURN OVER WITH THE STARTER you will hydrolock the engine and break a rod, piston, head or numerous other parts. the injector holes are too small to let the water through the much larger diameter pistons are throwing at it and all it takes is one cylinder full of water on the compression stroke and you have a boat anchor. next drain the oil and pour kerosine through the block to flush any remaining water out (with the drain plug out). i see you have the exaust manifold off so look in and make sure there isn't water laying on the top of the valves on all the cylinders. ok if it turned over ALL the way (mark the flywheel and watch to make sure you turn past it) you can put oil and filter on and penitrating oil down the injection holes (wd-40, blaster crc556 ect) don't go crazy just enough to lubricate the cylinder walls. pull the feed line from the fuel tank to the pump off or disconnect the fuel line unless you want a mess. install the starter and turn the engine over for 5-10 seconds at a time for two or three times to loosen things up. install the injectors, manifold with flapper on the stack and everything else that was removed prime your lines and your done.