I just bought a Case 580CK with power shuttle that grinds gears. Is there any way to jury rig it so that the tractor can be started with the gear selector in any gear and not have to be in "S"? Is there any basic things I can do to minimize the grinding (like adjust the clutch) before I really have to tear into the transmission? Thanks.
Not recommended for safety reasons, but just bypass the switch. Many are like that with the same problem of not being able to shift while its running. The fix is a shuttle overhaul, not the transmission. You can use it with the bypass, as I did with mine for years. Just be sure the shuttle is in neutral and everyone else is clear of the machine. You can search on here and find threads with pictures of the shuttle disassembled. There are springs that release the clutch packs when the shuttle is in neutral. You will find they are broken. I got my replacements from Dale Weiss @ Tractorstuff. They are not available from Case. While in there, you will need other parts as the springs will have damaged clutch plates and those tricky metal seals will be worn. Its not hard, just requires some patience and caution to not break the metal sealing rings. Have fun with your 580CK
Where is the switch located? I was planning to shut the machine off if I need to change gears since I don't have time to fix the problem right now. The shuttle seemed to work fine so I thought it was the transmission. Does the shuttle overhaul require splitting the tractor? Also, what does the "I" gear position under the starting position "S" for? Thanks.
The switch is located right by the transmission shifter. For years, when I needed to shift gears, I just shut it off. The shuttle worked ok, except for not fully stopping in neutral, making the gears grind when you try to shift. You will need to split the tractor to access the shuttle. I comes out the back of the torque tube casting, which splits ahead of the transmission. There are a few things that make sense to do when its split, but you can research that in a number of threads on here. I don't think there is an "I' , just the S and to the right, the 1,2,3 & 4 gears. If you don't already have a manual, I highly recommend that you find one as it will help you understand what is involved with the various functions of the tractor. Here are a few pictures of the springs I mentioned...
My case 580 b with shuttle will grind gears till ilowrr my rpm shift into gear and then throttle it up. Try that
Thanks I'll give that a shot - around what rpm is low enough so it won't grind? Do you know if the 580s do that from the factory or is that a result of years of use?
Im a junior member here. I havent had my backhoe case 580 b but a year . But after i start it in neutral. I then put it in gear i throtyle it up after its in geat and the power shuttle is in the neutral position. Othrrwise i think the higher rpm creates fluid prssure snd dtarts closing the clutch plates . Just a guess. Im not sure ifyou have this setup or ifyou really have a problem. But youhave 2 neutrals one on ur power shuttleby the steering wheel the otheron the gearshift. Ihope thishelped mike
Thinking about it. This could also be a posdibility. On your dash if everything was new. You would shift from forward or reverse toneutral. The valve under the fuel tank that works the power shuttle hydraulic pressure dump would stop fluid flow. However if the machine getsolder u have wear. The bypass fluid would try and close the clutches in the piwer shuttle. By the leakby fluid.mine if iput it at low idle not enough fluid is leaking by yet to cause a steady grinding. My question to you is the do called clutch which is really just a hydraulic fluid dump valve. Does yours work like this. If so hit this and try toput in gear. With thispressed the power shuttle pump cantcreate pressure toclose the cluthces. This will telll u if uhave a bearing goi g out orif its in the shuttle
The reason it grinds is the clutch plates are no longer releasing when the shuttle is in neutral. This is because when there is no hydraulic pressure on the shuttle for either forward or reverse gears, the springs in the clutch hub would normally release the clutch packs. The pictures I already posted show what happens to the release springs as these machines get old. No guessing as this has already been covered on tnis forum by a number of other posts. I benefitted form these and ended up rebuilding my shuttle. My shuttle worked fine except that even with the clutch pedal depressed fully, and the shuttle pressure gauge showing pressure to the clutches 'dumped', they were not completely releasing. In the mean time, you can connect the two wires that go to the neutral switch located in the transmission top cover near the shifter. This will defeat the safety switch and allow the tractor to start in gear with the shuttle in neutral. Mine was like that when I got it and I used it that way for another 20+ yrs before the rebuild. If it will shift at low idle, then you have a bit of time before a rebuild is necessary, but nothing will make it any better except a proper repair. I suggest that if you haven't already got a service manual, that you get one before you go to far with anything. In the manual, there is a section on how the Power Shuttle works and diagrams to help you understand what happens when its in neutral, forward and reverse. The rest of the manual is invaluable in understanding the what and how of these relatively simple machines. Have fun.
Thanks guys for all the advice. On a separate issue, the support that ties the two loader arms together has a large split in it. Can I just put some mild steel plate over it and weld with 6011 or does it require a different repair procedure?
The loader arms and that cross member are subject to fractures from years of misuse and overloading. Mine has gusset plates on the right hand arm, and stress cracks in the welds for that cross member. I have seen pictures on here of reinforcing angle added on and welded. I'm not sure what rods are appropriate but you should get some other opinions from the regulars here. On loader arms, I am still considering either a replacement from a wrecker or taking it to a welding shop and having them cut off the crap gussets and repair the whole thing properly. Since I'm a long way from any sources for decent used replacements, I'll probably go for the welding shop rebuild. I'm so far into my tractor rebuild now that a few more $$$ won't matter much but the end result will be worth it.
Ok I alrwady got a full repair
So i. Did i got a full repair manual I alrwady changed out the engine.lol didnt do the dhuttle but . Im just learning on here. I thank yoh for letyinv me know. So dix u do an all arohnd fix. Springs plates forward and reverse. What did it cost ya. I wannaknow sp ill be ready. I try heplping as im learning. I rsbuily my hydraulic cylinderz and trying to find a way to fux the spring in my seat . Its gone. Repainted the rear boom and all. Placing nes hoses everywhere. Made bushings . Lol wherd the swing arm lower pin is outter and inner yhers ars none so i built some. Outta stainlrss. Good for,around the farm.
Nea radiator. New fluuds replacef the brakes . Needs a lil work. No springs and rod is bent
Ok thanks. Ilove messing with it . For some its oldcars u can just drive me its a backhoe i can tear **** upwith.lol.
I have been getting all my parts from Dale Weiss at Tractorstuff . He knows his way around these old tractors and has made sure I got the correct parts for what I needed. On the shuttle, there are a few bits you will need to buy for sure, and then some that will depend on the condition of the clutch discs. The 'Case only' sealing rings were around US $ 135. and the if I recall, the springs were $20 to 30 for the set to do both hubs. One of the members helped me with his extra friction discs and sent along a few of the metal sealing rings. They are easy to break and he had to order another kit thru Dale. I broke one but the got that one from those that were sent to me. Thanks Xpack/Oneman! I can't quote the friction disc costs but when those springs broke, some small bits got in between a couple of the discs and scored them badly. I set those aside, mic'd the rest and swapped out with the ones sent to me. Xpac/Oneman had done his and I learned a lot reading his experiences on here. You can search for those threads on 580CKs and see what we have been up to. For Dirty Rice, here is picture I grabbed from a thread that 1968 Case 580CK started. It shows the repairs to his loader arm cross member. You could do the same type of repair and it would be fine.
My cross member iz fine it might havd been done years ago or never. I use colman tractor online for avpictorial break down. The pics,show the assenmbly as well as partnumbers . If im not wrong therez like 24 disc for forwars and reverse. I plan on doing all mine. The seal u broke. Xan u tellme mors odf z successful way not to brak mine when i do it. His hoe looks great painted. I hope mine looks as good but my grille was homemade. Lost years ago in some distant hole .
I save these pics too never know dhen u might have to refer to them
I cant remember how to search the post
Search feature is in the tool bar at the top of this page. I replied to Dirty Rice's question about the loader arm cross member, since this is his thread. The metal seal ring has a hook on the ends, much like some automatic transmission rings. Patience and extra care not to stress them when reinstalling is all I can offer. If you get that far, you will have to remove the old ones and it will become very clear as to what the challenges are with these rings. I can't recall the clutch disc count, but they alternate metal disc and friction disc, around 6 or each for forward and the same for reverse. If they are in reasonable shape, you won't need to change them. I'd wait until you had it on the bench before buying any parts so you know what you need. Excessive wear and seriously damaged parts will be a whole different ball game and can become prohibitive in cost. With any of this type of assembly, clean is mandatory. Any dirt, or other foreign debris will have you doing it again. Other things to be done when the shuttle is out would be the thrust washers on the output, seals and new gaskets where the tractor is split. Clean the torque tube, pump pickup screen and flush the case before reassembly. Good luck if you decide to tackle it.
T
Thanks. Im gonna wait. Read more from these pages study and memorize how it goex together. I work ofshore so i have money but would rather fix it before im on a set income. Im thinking of putting back 4 grand or so just for parts to be used later.doubt ill ever make money with her but u never know. Mike h Jones franklint9n louisians
A farmer 1/2 mile from me always started a 1088 International with a screw driver until it started in gear, left a widow and grown kids. Rear tire ran over him didn't stop until it hit the woods an 80 away.
Oh man i feel sorry got his family. I hope that guy doesnt do what he said. I put the nuetral safety swith back on mine. Otherwise i was gonna put 2 start swithches left of dash and right of dash so you can only start it from the seat pressing both at the same time. But i put the safety swith and just have a push button start only. No key. Seems to work ok.
Thanks for the warning. I know that's a danger so I always start any moveable machinery in the operators seat. Plus I lower the hoe and loader when I park it for the day.
Thanks ive started ordering from dale. I had a at up axle and bearing he got me a used axle and bearings for both sides. Plus the gaskets for the cover plates. He did me right. His wife seemed eager as well.thanks for the info. My backhoe is back together . Bug i forget some linkages to hook up and the seat section that half has been repainted. Im fixing it up by sections aft boom rebuilt cylinders new hoses manufactered homemade bushings. And paint
Nice! Looking good....feel like working on a 580 in Dallas?
Not a problem. Just lots of you tube videos and reading on here over and over
Gonna start taking up al that slack in the linkages next
Hello. I am not able to find the manual for the 1968 Case 580CK loader/backhoe. I do have the small thin books that came with the tractor although they do not provide much information. Any help is welcomed? Thank you, Tim