Hey everyone, Been a while since I've posted on here. Spent a lot of energy trying to become a dozer operator. My perseverance finally paid off a few years back. I work at a coal mine as a dozer operator at the dragline. Best job I've ever had. Having said that, I'm now looking to start my own land/ mulching business. I only work 15 days a month and really want to start a side business. My only problem is I have no idea how to find work. Say I buy the equipment and then place an ad on Craigslist, then no work comes. That's my biggest fear. Is there a lot of work in that industry? Would it be safer to lease or maybe rent equipment until I see there's enough work to buy my equipment? Can you do that? I appreciate any help.
I'm no expert by any means, but I'll bump this thread back to the top for you as I find the topic interesting. What are you going to be clearing? Guessing heavy bush, small trees? I'd maybe start with the rented stuff and then start looking for stuff that needed a little work. But clearing equipment seems like it would get beat on pretty hard (more than normal construction equipment), so the used equipment may have been rode hard and put away wet.... I think I'd start with a skid steer and ground-shark or mulching head. I just had a guy quote me to do some land clearing and demolition. Wanted $1600 a day for two guys, running a bobcat with a grapple, mulcher and bucket. Not gonna use him as it's significantly cheaper to rent the machines and do it myself.
Renting equipment is a real good option. Sure it costs abit more than say bank finance but for 15 days a month you send it back and pay nothing. If you have never worked a mulcher before, find a mate who wants same clearing done and give them a freebe until you get the hang of it. It will pay huge dividends if (a) you can learn to do the job throughly and quickly and (b) leave a good tidy product on the ground. Don't do good cheap jobs, there is no such thing.
Yea that's what i was going for was a skid steer with a mulching head. I did go ahead and put an ad on Craigslist just to test the waters. I got the idea from a guy at work. Said that's what he did, and made good money but got tired of doing it. Renting was really what I wanted to do for a while just wasn't sure if that was a viable option. Seems like it'd be somewhat risk free, just didn't know if you could make any money by renting equipment. I've always wanted to have a side business but the fear of not finding work has always held me back.
Just something to chew on..... If xxx homeowner can rent a rig for the same rate as you can, where's the profit for you? You need to bring something else to the table to get business. Owned machines, employees, experience or something. What will you offer? Starting a new business is fun but....
if you rent/buy a machine make sure you get insurance on it , and keep the engine clean . I belong to a salvage site and see a lot of mulching machines that went up in smoke..
Have you checked locally to see if you can rent a skid with a mulching head and what the rates are? There are a couple of rental stores here that rent them but they are very reserved in who they rent to for the reasons catman posted above. Our Cat rental store has one but you have to sit through a training session and have a relationship with the dealer to rent it.
Our Cat rental store also has a waiting list on the mulcher, in addition to what CM said. So could be hard to schedule your work I would think.
As far as advertising you should line up with the local landscapers/yard supplies stores and leave flyers. Try to get in good with anyone that plants trees, shrubs and such that do not have the machines or possibly the time to do the clearing then speak to builders and farm supply stores as to doing the same thing. Craigslist is buried most of the time as to ads, get some flyers out then see if it does not breed into a hard to fill monster.
I've been thinking maybe a trackhoe might be a better option as far as land clearing goes. I do have a mahindra 4530, maybe I could work that until I got my name out there, just not sure how much clearing I could do with a tractor.
I have put up an ad to see if i get any calls, may not be a good idea but I really want to know if there is actually business out there. As far as hauling it, I assume ill need a bigger truck or can you sometimes contract that part out?
I'm not a fan of mulching heads on skid loaders. It's hell on the machine, I sure as hell wouldn't rent one out. 2 other thoughts. 1 Trucking sounds expensive until you own a truck. ; ) 2 Leaving things for extended on people's yard is dangerous...they tend to get in them and F things up. : (
Almost better off with a tub grinder and a truck to drag it then just clear and grub, feed the tub which makes more fill materials.
Had my first phone call for doing some work. It was for clearing a shooting lane. Seemed like a perfect job for my tractor. He seemed fine with my hourly rate at min. 4 hours and $55 an hour. As soon as I mentioned $135 to get my equipment out there (it was about 40 miles) he just stopped texting me. Was I too high? Should I text him back to see if he's made a decision or I reckon that's bad business ethics?
It depends on how long the job will take. Nothing wrong with calling him back, worst he can do is say no. Make sure your equipment will do the do job and never take a job without looking at it first unless you know the person (repeat customer) and it's a straight forward job. Could be full of all kinds of debris and rocks or barb wire. 40 miles is a fair distance to go to the job but if the job takes a full day to complete then maybe include hauling equipment. The other thought is if you have a 4 hour minimum it is to include hauling costs. Also sometimes after you meet the potential customer you can get a really good vibe on if you want to work for them or not. Some people are shady right from the get go. I've done work for a couple people that wanted all kinds of work done and were really happy with the job until it came time to pay. Then they complained about everything. One job I cut the bill and half and just got the heck out of there on my dad's advice. One of many things the guy wanted was his yard rototilled but it was as hard as concrete and I wasn't going to wreck my rototiller or my tractor. He seemed OK with that but what really ticked me off is he asked if I could rototill some manure into his 50' x 100' garden. Yeah, no problem as long as there is no baler twine in it. He had 4 heaping dump truck loads delivered and it was at least 8" deep! I'd guess close to 20 yds. a load because it's light. Then he complained and bitched I didn't mix it with the dirt well enough. I said no rototiller goes more than about 6" deep max. I went home and got my cultivator and it went down into the dirt but I had to spend an hour cutting baler twine off the rototiller.
Thanks for the response. Currently I'm hauling my 5000lb tractor with my f150, was supposed to get a 1 ton Friday but seller had a few legal issues to fix. Having said that do you think $135 is too much for that setup? What do you guys usually charge to haul your equipment out there? I originally was going to come look at the job for free but I'm not going to do that. How much should i charge for a come out fee? And I don't know why I'm nervous about doing the job. It is my first one and it's for a shooting lane, never done a shooting lane but my understanding is it's just as it sounds a cleared out lane to shoot deer. Gotta learn somehow, I mean I run dozer at dragline at work so it's not like it's my first time operating equipment. Anyone have any experience with legal zoom? I'm forming an llc and don't know if I should go with a attorney or legalzoom.
Do you have liability insurance? You pretty much have to do free estimates or you won't get any work! $55/hr seems low though. I'm not sure you actually understood what I wrote. Include hidden costs in your hourly rate. You charge for an estimate, travelling time and have a minimum all on the same job nobody will ever hire you. They will think you're greedy and nickel and diming them. Only you can decide how you want to charge but make it clear for the customer. Maybe a 4 hour minimum from the time you leave home? You're charging about 2 1/2 hours to haul your tractor to the job. It shouldn't take 2 1/2 hours to go 40 miles. If you're a sole proprietor you don't have to be incorporated. Save your money and you can always get incorporated later on when you're doing bigger jobs. You're kind of just testing the water right now. I think you need to work for another contractor for awhile to learn more about running a business, doing estimates, etc. You're looking at a doing a shooting lane and you have no idea what you'll encounter. What if it's heavy bush and 6" dia. tree's? Drive out and look at the job for free! Much better than hauling your tractor out and telling the customer you don't have the right equipment for the job or worse it's going to cost him a lot more money.
Local contractor has flat fees for under ten miles drive time, above that he charges hour rate for truck/driver/machine from time they load at yard until unloaded at site, same for return leg. Bigger machines bigger money, smaller machines cheaper.
Neighbor asked me to disc a field for a cover crop replant as his old drag disc was/is shot. Gave him a estimate of four hours he said OK, gave him a bill for $320 and he squalled as if shot. Told him barely covered my expenses for fuel oils and lube as well wear on the discs. He refused to pay so I said fine and walked away, also told him no three times since as to leasing from us where his property adjoined and he could use the better pastures. He failed to understand the rift he set as he thought $80 was more than enough for twenty acres disced down 8", told him was that PER HOUR originally. He has been caught twice trying to 'borrow' that disc as his is still crap, cannot get it through his head is a no deal from here out unless he coughs up for that disc job. So have had bad days too.
Sometimes friends and neighbors are the biggest cheapskates.
Cannot get away from those that expect free even when tell them will cost. He knew I also had the old Allis loader, hired a guy with a 953 to come in to dress off two pond levees that were built too steep as I told him NO. Guy charged him almost $4800, asked me later if was reasonable where I asked back what was the estimate? where the estimate had been $5000, he is in court trying to NOT pay that bill either. I tell you it takes all kinds and there are all kinds out there.
Good grief, yea I've learned a while back not to do business with people that know you. But I guess anyone could be like that. But in regards to me starting a business, this is an explanation of my idea. I work at a coal mine, absolutely love my job, they will have to run me off to leave. Having said that, it works out to where I work 6 months a year. I'm trying to start a small sideline business, in the future I'd like to make enough to where my wife don't gotta work. But for the time being I just want to make enough to make payments. So I'm trying to figure out which would be the best route. I really want to get into mulching but I'm think of either a mini ex, mulcher, or dozer. What's y'alls thoughts on which I could find work for? Which that has always been my biggest fear is not being able to find work. I've had an ad on Craigslist for about a week and a half and only have had 2 calls but I reckon I should be patient and possibly think of other means to advertise. Would it be bad practice to call the bigger forestry mulching outfits and see if they have work that's too small or possibly work my machine for them and get a certain %?
Craigslist is probably the last place I would look for service provider. Too easy to get on NET and look one up as to a registered business, as to grade work I cannot do I use local contacts and phone.
I'm far from an expert. But when I did the land clearing and dirt work for my shop, I used a guy I found on craigslist. He's kinda a gobber, but is a world class operator. Is very efficient and can hold a grade like nobody's business. But I did my due diligence before hiring him and he checked out. Sound like the gobber that's my tennant farmer right now, kicking that a&& hole out this year. Even if I can't find another decent farmer to rent the ground out, I'll disc the rows down and cut if for hay. Less money more work, but better than dealing with that idiot.
You might do good to take a business course and learn about marketing. Lots of books in the library or book store too. I advertised skid steer work in a local paper that was usually distributed to newer communities. Maybe you could talk to the chamber of commerce in your town or city. You could talk to the big operators but I doubt they'd hire you and your machine. They might refer you to a smaller job(s) but without knowing how reliable or how good of a job you do, it's their reputation on the line as well. You need to do some more research.
Since we're telling horror stories with "customers" - I agreed to grade an adjacent lot in a residential subdivision for a "friend" of friend. He wanted to level the lot so he could put up a playground for his grandchildren. Met on site and agreed on a price of $1000 including mob for my 953C. Mob'd the machine in and graded the lot to his satisfaction before we moved out. 3 days later I get a call from the guy. He proceeds to tell me that my operator didn't work that hard and spent too much time talking on the phone and smoking cigs. Nevertheless he was happy with the finished product at the end of the job at the agreed upon price, as we walked the site with him. I didn't say what I really wanted too, which included many choice and colorful words, instead I told him to "Pay me what he thought it was worth". I got a check for $700. One of the many reasons I don't work for individuals.
Sometimes, you get the idiots that think the price is negotiable after it's finished. In some cases you can lower the bill a bit if the job went faster than you expected but when you work by the hour or the customer wants a price before you start, that should be the price. The customers attitude has a lot to do with it. I went out to do an estimate for rototilling, levelling and sodding a new home with a large lot. It was about an hour away from where I lived. Went out gave an estimate to the guy's wife based on what they wanted done. 2 days later the guy calls me and asks when I'm coming to do the estimate. I said I did 2 days ago and he says he has some changes so I go back out and give another estimate, $1200. Then after I get the job he changes his mind again 1/2 way through and wants a smaller garden and sod beside the house where originally he wanted to put a flower bed. I said no problem but it's going to need more sod. I said I'll charge you for the extra sod (5 pallets, about $250 if I recall) but won't charge for the labour to install it. I thought that was more than fair. He said yeah, go ahead and get more sod. Then when the job is done he gives me a cheque for $1100 and said he's holding back $100 incase there's any problems with the job. He had the city lot grading inspector out 3 times checking my work and the guy who is extremely picky said it was perfect, no problems before the sod was laid. I wasn't having any of his BS so paid $25 and sent him a statement of claim. He calls me and wants me come and look at the job and clear up the bill. I go back out and he says come in the back yard. He walks around for a few minutes and then says look at this, he steps on a piece of sod and then steps on another piece. See it's lower. One piece of sod was, I kid you not, a 1/4" lower than the piece beside it! I said nobody guarantee's sod will be exactly the same width and you haven't even cut it yet. Once the seams grow together and you cut it, it will be even. Then he says I wasn't even the lowest bid, I was the middle bid. I told him I used premium sod and all he had to do was look at his yard and compare it with other yards. He agreed it did look better. He had the greenest yard in the whole neighborhood. I got a good deal on the sod because the owners of the sod farm were long time customers of my dad and good friends of ours. They use only certified seed and they guaranteed it. It was cut in the morning and delivered the same day. It was the same sod used in Commonwealth Stadium and on major golf courses.
Still been doing some brain storming. I'm thinking maybe I could start with just a stump grinder and see how it goes. I can get a decent stump grinder for $30k vs a forestry mulcher for $80k +. I could keep advertising for land clearing and after I paid off the grinder look at other equipment. Just would feel better with a $600 monthly note vs $1200. Haven't gotten any calls yet but my brother in law has told me that craigslist is a terrible place to advertise. Said once he started advertising with google, his phone rings all day.
A 30K stump grinder? You better get a lot work for it. How can you advertise for land clearing if you don't have a mulcher?
Get a lot of work because it's 30k? I didn't want to buy a real cheap one and not get the work done. I just thought this might be a little safer area to get into, figured I'd get more work and not have a $1200 note.
Maybe specialize in stump grinding then if nobody else is doing it. Would be a lot less machine maintenance than a skid steer and mulcher.
When it comes to time & effort to do a job, never underestimate your expertise, expenses, & equipment. Time & perceived effort is irrelevant. A Dr makes a ton an hour...but you're not paying them for THAT hour. Your paying for all the hours that made them that proficient & knowledgeable. You're also paying for all the overhead & equipment that he/she has, the help, the electric bill, the water & sewer bill. That said, if you're going to charge that way...you need to have the skills (and equipment) to pay the bills. Customers pay me for my knowledge, contacts, and time. Everything I do they could figure out on their own...eventually. But time is money. Learning what I know takes time. Developing relationships with the right people...takes time. Knowing where to get what...and making sure 'what' isn't cheaper just because it's junk. Knowing who to call for what...and having them call you back. I don't discount those things. I'm still a better alternative than my competition, and when I'm not I tell them (Never underestimate the power of honesty & saying NO). Now some may get lucky here and there without me...BUT...on average I'm a cheap date. : )
Some last thoughts.... A. Get things up front in writing. B. Hourly work...machine hours? Or time on the job? When does that clock start? When does it stop? C. Pictures...everyone should have a camera on their phone USE IT! D. Regardless of HR vs Job...keep track of your time & expenses daily. To both CYA & to learn true costs of jobs. E. Videos...if something changes or customer wants to over ride your professional opinion...VIDEO it or PUT IT ON PAPER. I've got a video of a guy taking full responsibility for any issues arising from me helping to pull out his $100k Mercedes ALWAYAS CYA!!! 100x's more expensive in the end if you don't. FINALLY...take pics of your jobs. Get a Ipad or cheap tablet to take with you and have those pictures BEFORE, DURING, AFTER of your jobs to show the next customer. PEOPLE HAVE ZERO IMAGINATION, most have ZERO UNDERSTANDING of what is required. Pictures allow you to show them what you can do, what it takes to do it, what they can expect along the way, and why you are the right choice. Also they are the best CYA in any time of dispute over time worked, if you were on the job when you said you were (had a customer accused of holding up a job after the fact - he worked for both project owner & general on that job that turned ugly) and his pictures of his equipment on that job shut that **** down instantly. Pics + time stamps = him having more credibility than anyone else involved. It then became him telling the arbitrator how the cows ate the cabbage (as they say) and that was a big deal.
Neighbors have been pushing for me to get into full excavation business, keep telling them are too many locally as it is(4), but they do not use them due to cost as if I would be able to charge less. I cannot use too old a machine as I do on the farm where they do not understand the issues, then they do not understand the art of charges from yard to site and back at beginning and end of project nor do they want to understand the excavator has to make a living as much as they do just with higher expenses. Becomes a tug of war as to viability as opposed to economic virtue or quantity of continuous work. One 'questionable' job and your reputation goes in the trash then work comes to a halt.