I have a Steiger ST280 series IV that I use around the farm and for a few construction duties. It's got a 3406 Cat. I'm having troubles with the electronic tach. It used to work but I'm questioning how accurate it was. It suddenly stopped one day and now it will occasionally bounce around and read 4000RPM. Local parts guy said to try the sending unit at $400 but it might be the tach itself. I can't find much for troubleshooting info and I hate throwing parts at machinery so I'll ask here if anyone has any ideas. Thanks, Twisted
Nige is going to want your engine serial.
If the frequency of the sensor output is proportionate to the engine speed the sensory should be working
It is a mechanical pump so a or b series I assume. The sending unit is directly in front of the injector pump. Where would I find the SN? It appears the tag is missing. I'll check the receipts to see if he listed one. While we're on the subject, I've scored two pistons in less than 100 hrs. It always gets warmed up and cooled down properly. Never pulled overly hard. One was scored the year before I bought it. #3, 5 & 6 have scored. Last time I had them replace all of the liners and pistons. New oil cooler, injector tips, checked the cooling jets, bearings and a host of other items. All of this new and it still scored. This is a very respectable diesel mechanic and I'm not questioning his work. He suggested that the engine wasn't running the proper RPM and when I loaded it the revs slowed down enough causing a score, hence the reason to have an accurate tach. I'm a little scared to use it after spending $13k in repairs on a $8000 tractor.
I would also spend a few dollars on a pyrometer and watch the exhaust temp. That will tell you if you are close to damaging piston heat so you can back off a bit.
You have one of the most reliable engines Cat produced. If you're getting scored pistons then you have a problem which I doubt is caused by engine speed or loading. There are several different pistons available depending on rating and each has its own unique cooling jet which I suspect may be where your problem lies. If you can find the engine serial number and any invoices with part numbers of the components which have been fitted, we can find out for sure.
Cyl kit is p/n H3780509LK. I'm still searching for a s/n.
Try looking on the cylinder block just below the head surface, maybe left front corner? If tag is missing look for stamped in numbers where the tag was attached?
Seemed like those older engines had tag on block near the back somewhere i could be wrong the c16 in my morbark is on the right side of block rite where a starter could go
That's not a Cat Part Number. Do you have any info on what Cat Part Number it's equivalent to..? Is the engine that you're having trouble with the original one from the machine or a replacement..? If it's a replacement where did it come from and do you have any idea how it was modified/adapted to fit your machine..? The problem with the 3406 is that it was built in literally thousands of variants and although it's perfectly possible to take a used engine from one application and transform it into an arrangement suitable for another application it's highly unusual for that to ever happen in practice, at least in my experience it is. That's what makes finding the actual S/N and getting more details of the provenance of the engine so important.
I found the tag on the rocker box but nothing on the block so we'll assume it's correct. The info I got on that kit number crosses to an OEM 3780509LK http://www.agkits.com/caterpillar-3400-sleeve-assembly-oe-9y4004-2.aspx#.V8YASCgrLIU As far as history on the tractor it's limited. Farmer I bought it from said it had about 3000hrs on an in-frame OH with roughly 10,000 total hours. He has all newer machinery now so he sold the Steiger. I bought it and scored the first piston shortly after. He was good and helped out with the bill on that one. I found out from the mechanic who is a good friend and neighbor of mine that the owner came and bought one cylinder kit and a gasket set from him a year previous for that tractor so that tells me he had an issue. Maybe he put low quality parts in???? I had him replace the scored hole and fix anything that could have possibly caused the issue. I used it for the year and changed the oil at 50hrs. This spring it happened again with about 80hrs. Different hole each time. All of the accessories were new or rebuilt so he replaced all of the cylinders and pistons except the one I just had done. He said they all looked perfect to the eye so no light scores or hot spots. He still has the takeouts but I haven't had a chance to grab them. I could contact the original owner but we all know that can be like talking to a used car dealer. Thanks again guys.
Well that's a start anyway. There is both a Serial and an arrangement number on that plate. So long as that's the original engine it gives enough info to make a start. Maybe CMark might chime in otherwise it'll have to wait until I get into the office tomorrow. Regarding the kit I'll have to do some digging to see what "genuine Cat" Part Numbers it cross-references to. The 2nd number you posted isn't a Cat number either. Just had a thought. Ask the former owner if he has any knowledge of the cylinder block being replaced at any time. If he answers no then that would pretty much bail it that the number on the rocker cover relates to that particular engine.
Well this one is outside my expertise! I did trim off the letters off the number and put 378-0509 into NPR and that shows up as a piston body that comes in a "Silver 396-2338 Engine overhaul kit for a D8N with a 3406 engine. When I put the 9U16661 and Arrangement No. 1W8400 in SIS and try looking at "As built" it comes back as not a good S/N. When I try to look up the piston part number for the 9U16661 S/N I get to the parts page where you need to select the A/R number and the 1W8400 does not show there, lots of other options but list stops at 1W6376. Could there be some "contract" between Cat and Steiger to lock out the information?? If someone has an idea of some other way to attack this I'd be happy to do some more looking. But just an uneducated opinion would be if this thing is scuffing pistons often I'd be looking at the piston coolers and oil supply to them. Also would want to be sure the pistons were the correct ones for the application and not just some chunks of aluminium that happens to fit the holes in the liners. I'm thinking that there might be different piston coolers used with different pistons and horse power ratings and maybe different pumps depending on which coolers are being used.
I asked the mechanic about the cooling jets and he said they hooked shop air to the galley and confirmed good supply to each jet but air and oil can be two different animals. They could also be incorrect for this application. I'll do some checking with the previous owner to see if he has any ideas. I'm not sure that he is the original owner but I know he owned it for many years and racked a lot of hours on it pulling an air seeder. Not that it will get me anywhere but I live about 50 miles from the original Steiger factory and have dealt with a couple of those guys on different projects. Great guys and I'm sure they'll help to find some better info if possible.. They are building Toreq scrapers now and not in the tractor business but they may have some leads on where to get engine info. I'm not a diesel engine mechanic but I have a long history in general maintenance. The mechanic and his helper probably split and repair 50+ tractors a year and he has a spotless reputation. Whatever the problem is, it was there before he got it and we're missing something. I will get with him and see why he chose the cylinder kits that he did. I work this engine way easier than any of my others. My dozers and trucks take way more heavy loading than this has ever been close to. I don't dare hook a scraper or any other heavy implements to it while this problem exists which makes it kind of useless to me. Thank you
Yep, it's a tricky one. But... The good news is that your serial number plate is OK. 1W8400 is a good arrangement for serial number 90U16661 and 9E1485 is the modifications for a Steiger tractor. This of course doesn't mean that it is the original engine. It would have originally been shipped with 7N3516 piston and rod groups. These each contain a 7N3509 piston for which there is no later number and a 7N3231 rod. The rods are "narrow taper" rods. The link to the parts you gave says "6 degree narrow tapered connecting rod only", but the listed piston 9Y4004 is for a wide tapered rod. This may be wrong but with aftermarket parts, who knows? The piston cooling jets can either be 4N9881, 7W7496 or 7W4990. They also have to be correctly aligned and checked for clearance when the piston is at BDC. I personally would take it apart and confirm the part number on the rods, pistons and cooling jets.
By the way, the engine was shipped with a mechanical tacho drive so if you have an electronic one, it must me a Steiger part.
Amazing. Thank you.
Just curious, where were you able to find the 1W8400 arrangement number? Maybe I was looking in the wrong place on SIS or just don't have access to some information. I'm sure from what I've seen that Cat blocks information at different levels depending on who's account you are using.
The information is in TMI. You treat the arrangement number as a part number. You're right, different accounts have different levels of access but I think most accounts can access parts info in TMI.
Ken, I think you need to go to TMI to find the breakdown of the 1W-8400 Engine Arrangement that Cmark was talking about. My suspicion is that the engine most likely has a mix of rod/piston/cooling jet parts (maybe others as well but that's where I'd look first) that are incompatible.
Okay, well don't think I can access the "TMI" as I do not see it anywhere in the SIS pages I can see.
Its a totally different web site. I'll PM you a link.
Ken, if you can access TMI you'll find it isn't as intuitive and easy to navigate as SIS. If you need any help, drop me a PM.
Ok. You guys have been an amazing source of information and I greatly appreciate the time you all have spent. I'll try to keep updating this thread until the issue is resolved because I've seen this issue pop up other places while searching for information with no definitive results. I talked with the mechanic for a while today and expressed my concerns. The piston kits he installed were the correct ones according to the S/N from a Cat dealer but they also wanted to get the piston numbers from the originals. That has me a bit concerned. They are aftermarket but direct replacement for that engine according to the dealer. He didn't check the part numbers on the cooling jets as he assumed they were correct but as stated he confirmed they were working. During the first piston replacement the mechanic asked the previous owner if he had any ideas why it scored. He asked if it had been run hot or anything. Previous owner didn't know as he had other operators but stated it could have happened. Sounded a little wishy-washy. I'm going to try to contact him tomorrow for some more info on block replacement, cooling jets, over heating, and other history. I'll gather a little more info from him and probably drop the pan and inspect. I don't really have the time or room at the moment but it's better than another $5000 cylinder replacement and the downtime. Once again I thank you all for the time spent and information provided. I hope to pay it forward at some time.
If you're looking at the piston cooling jets, don't forget to check the alignment. It's easy to bend them when the rods are removed or installed.
That comment set my "radar" off big time. Simply blowing air through them isn't enough IMHO (others may disagree). Also I haven't checked but I'd bet money that there is more than one part number of cooling jet available for that engine model and it's always the case, certainly on other engine models, that the piston cooling jet and piston have to be matched to one another and mixing a jet from one pack with a piston from another could produce potentially disastrous results. Also as CM says above it's easy to knock a jet off without even realizing it while removing/installing rods. I think the first thing I might do is to check the cooling jets and see if they have a Cat Part Number stamped on them. Not a simple process but could prove to be the key to sorting the problem.