I have a 85 Kenworth w900 with Fuller 13speed RR with 2 sp Rears [high/low], that will not go into gear while running, after sitting a couple of months last winter. The clutch/clutch brake is adjusted within specs. I tried bumping the starter a few times in high gear, spraying some pb blaster into the spring areas of the clutch and to no avail thus far. I can push in the clutch pedal, and it feels normal. With the pedal pushed in [before the clutch brake makes contact], I can reach in the inspection hole and rattle the disc near the flywheel. The throwout bearing slides on the input shaft like it should and applies the right amount of pressure to the clutch brake. I would appreciate someone smarter than me to chime in and give me some good advice so I can get this thing to work properly. Thanks in advance! I am not sure why the above last sentences are in "strikethrough texts" but I did intend for that text to show. Thanks
Three items, #1 clutch is a rigid non dampened solid hub with organic/metal facing rusted to flywheel #2 splines on input shaft are worn where both driven discs ride and those hubs are not floating on shaft, a common issue with non dampened drive plates. #3 pilot bearing has seized to input shaft dowel.
After I mentioned that I could "rattle the disc" of clutch. I took another look and it is the intermediate plate I can rattle with the clutch pedal pushed in [ before TO bearing touches the clutch brake]. IDK if that changes anything or not, but I thought I would mention it, just in case. That info may eliminate your #1 possibility, since I can "rattle" the clutch and it isn't rusted to the FW.
Could still be stuck to flywheel, what seems impossible often isn't.
Cant that side flange plate that has a steel 3/4" line going to it be removed as a place to inspect the flywheel or lube the Pilot bearing? It only has four bolts holding it down. It is located about where the flywheel is on the bell housing.
Just what type/model of engine is in this truck, and if a cat does it have a retarder?
Yes it does have a retarder on a 3406b cat. in a Kenworth W900 1985 13 Fuller with 2 speed [h/L] rear.
The actual flywheel for a retarder that the clutch mounts to is a disc, the teeth for starter are on the front flange for stator group. No that cover will get you no where. You can't access the pilot bearing without removing trans & clutch group. That has a 15" clutch.
Cat 3406B manual # SEBR0544-03 April of 1991 will show retarder group in specifications section 1 page 58, along with flywheel.
Thank you much! Do you know the best place for me to get a Cat manual /Fuller manual?
I had some till last spring--gave all but a few away. Ebay possibly.
Thanks. I will look for that manual listed above. Have a good one!
Maybe get the air up, release the brakes, shut it off , put the clutch in and put it in gear and pull it around.
Yeah, get it running then drive into a tree, to get the clutch plates unstuck from the flywheel.
Is that better than driving it off a cliff?
Well, I had a Ford 9n tractor with a single loader arm to bucket, dumped in my lap. Clutch plates were frozen to the flywheel. Determined everything was working properly and didn’t feel like splitting the thing. Had a few beers and got the genius idea to get it started, was in 2nd gear, frozen and rammed that puppy into a 35” oak a few times and walla, plates freed up. Lol
I was just about to drive it off the Grand Canyon, but I will look for an oak tree before I do that then! lol Thanks for the good tip!
Before you do anything drastic or pull the transmission and replace the clutch. Build up air and release the brakes. shut it off and start it in gear and get it moving and upshift a few gears then push in the clutch and give it some throttle. It will probably release, if not it will have to come apart.
I assume it has a pintle hitch? Hook a stout chain to something heavy, stomp the clutch and start it in low gear. Leave enough slack in the chain for the engine to crank and start before it comes tight. Might have to put some weight in the box right over the drivers if it just wants to spin out.
I have a 980 WL hooked to the pintle hitch now. I was going to tow it uphill, then give the 1" wire rope sling some slack, get it rolling so I can put into gear, drive it, shift it, keep it slow, , using the sling and WL as a stop. Should I tow it with clutch pedal pushed in and in gear before I get to the top of the hill? The hill is not that steep BTW. Or in Reverse gear?
I just sprayed a bunch of Kroil and Free All in the Clutch/Input shaft area yesterday, then started the truck to let it seep in. I am waiting for that before I try again, but the truck is facing down hill now, hopefully that Kroil seeps down the Input shaft.
Is it better to start it in reverse gear? Will that start it easier since it is lower geared?
Only if you want to back into your loader. I was thinking of hooking up to something and yanking on it as an alternative to running into a tree.
What I meant was start it in reverse and drive up the hill before I do any forward or downhill procedures. I wasn't sure if the reverse gear would free it up better than forward. I can drive it in gear once I get rolling a bit vs risking breaking teeth off the flywheel ring gear. I will just take y'alls advice and tow it up [brakes released and in gear and clutch pedal pressed down]. If that doesn't free it up, I could use loader and 1" long wire rope as stop and hopefully it will free up. Then I might drive it off the Grand Canyon. If it doesn't free it up, then I will get a manual and start removing the transmission [shopless from the dirt]--hopefully it won't come to that fun stuff!
This is all great stuff, but remember it's less than a 50% chance it's a drive disc adhered to flywheel. If it's a pilot bearing issue that's another story. I've had to remove two transmissions years back with a come along pulling straight back and prybars on each side, with clutch unbolted from flywheel. Reverse ratio is typically 13.20 and low is 12.31. * Also it's not unusual to remove a trans and find at least 4 other items that need attention too.
I would not pull the transmission and replace the clutch without resealing the retarder.
That I would agree with, but if it's dry I wouldn't mess with it either. Takes a few cat tools and best to have a manual.
Stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't think it sat for enough time for it to be rusted stuck that much. It also happened a couple of years ago. I thought it was grease on the Cbrake that prevented it from going into gear after sitting. I bumped the starter over with it in gear and that freed it up, but that could have been a different issue. If I tow it backwards in reverse gear up the hill, I am hoping that Reverse motion might do better, but probably wishful thinking. Then I can do the down hill drive it in gear and shifting thing. ---hopefully, I will not need to drive it [clutchless] all the way to the Grand Canyon to drive it off the cliff! lol
Then too--it's amazing how brake shoes will rust to a drum and stay locked up dragging tires.
btw, is Nigel still around?
Nigel/Nige of Castle Rushen Isle of Man? yes
Good to hear that! He has always been a mainstay and a good mind with good advice over the years at HEF!
It definitely starts easier in reverse gear than 1st [like you mentioned in the gear ratio]. I drove it in reverse uphill, giving it throttle along the way. So far, to no avail. I now am going to do the downhill method with long 1" wire rope sling attached to large stump. I will get the truck driving in 1'st, until the rope gets tight. Then repeat, if it hasn't freed by then. Do you know how many hours it will take to remove the trans just to get to the pilot bearing, if that is what I have to do? I will be doing it "Mexican style"--on site, and using a transmission jack in the dirt. And is it always a good idea to just replace the clutch when the transmission is pulled, regardless of how much life it has?
A piece of 3/4 plywood under the tranny jack makes life a little simpler.
I have some sheets of MDO available if it ever comes to that nightmare! Thanks for the tip.