Hello. I have a TL140 that I've posted about previously. It's been running great for a few years now but this past week it has been bogging down when I go downhill. It seems like it's losing fuel supply. I'll be driving on a slight grade downhill and it will bog down. When I get it turned around (very slow) and head back uphill, it regains power and runs like a new one. Things I've done: Fuel Filter Electric Fuel Pump Filter Drained tank (nothing found) Cleaned separater (some debris) Removed suction line from bottom of tank and blew it out from where it connects to the separater. It has approx. 15 gallons in the tank right now and is still doing it. I'm baffled right now. I'm going to replace the electric pump next. I'm thing maybe it doesn't have enough power to pull the fuel up the line when the backend of the skid loader it higher. Anyone else have any ideas?? Thank you. Jerod
Does it make any difference on a full tank of fuel? and is the fuel tank completely secured so it cannot shift around? I've done a bit of work on a tl150 but never seen anything like this... EDIT: I see in your other thread you had electrical issues due to corrodentia... is there any chance this is related maybe the power to the fuel pump is getting interrupted from a failed fix... or some groundhog dinner spot you missed...
Thanks for the reply Ronsii. I'm still trending it to see when exactly it starts happening. It seems like it only does it only when it's been running for 2 hours or longer. If I fill it up after it starts bogging down, it still shows the same symptoms. You have a good point about the wiring issues I've previously had, and maybe they are related. I may try running a new wire directly from switch to the fuel pump since the harness is so hard to trace. However, if I shut the machine off when it's bogging down and then turn the switch back to the ON position, I can hear the fuel pump running...
Electric fuel lift pumps can run but be weak. My ASV RC85 got where it was hard to start. You could hear the furl pump running with the switch on and fuel returing to tank. I put my spare pump on and problem solved. Amazon had a good deal on replacement pumps, $52.00 VS $325.00 from Perkins.
Chances are you have something shifting as the nose drops, that will be the culprit.
Did you ever figure it out? Im having the exact same issue with my tl140 and am completely lost. Ive tried everything i can think of.
Water in fuel filter or water separator?
I’m dealing with the same problem myself. Anyone come up with a solution?
Would these machines have a ground speed circuit controller? Do they do this in Forward and Reverse?
Mine seems to do it most when the nose of the machine is downhill and the engine is under load. I don’t think they have a ground speed controller but I could be wrong.
I would be contact a service dealer as to safety features to prevent tip over, some form of weight on lift arms to angle of operation safety. Have you operated empty bucket in same conditions, is the speed reduction repeatable then?
Anyone get this figured out, mine does it too.
I get tired of showing pictures of a partially plugged inlet to water separator. If you haven't physically run a wire through the inlet elbow, you haven't been thorough enough.
Yea, I'm familiar with that... mine's clean. I'm starting to think it might be hot fuel... does it after a couple hours of running. What I don't understand is it only does it when going downhill.
Anyone get this figured out?
You could check this thread, post #7. Not your exact problem, but might be the same cause. HeavyEquipmentForums There's two general causes, lack of fuel, or overloaded engine (simple right?). If the engine is overloaded, I expect to see some dark smoke, especially if it slows down close to low idle speed under load. If you can't see at least some color and the heat in the exhaust, then I guess fuel. If you see black smoke as the engine is lugging down, then I guess hydraulic. plenty of threads on Takuechis with hydraulic issues similar to this...
For me, as well as most others in this thread, it's definately a fuel issue. If I'm going to be doing any downhill work I have to have the fuel tank topped off and then I can get about 5 gallons or work out of it before it needs to be topped off again. Symptom is, when it's front downhill the engine goes to a stuttering idle until I can get it turned around with the front uphill, then it goes back to full speed.
That's valuable info. I'd say that #7 post would be the first place I'd look, or any rubber or plastic in the fuel system. even steel lines can crack, but they show the leaks more too.
I've been into that filter prolly 10 times... it used to accumulate some crud at the banjo fittings which I thought for sure was the problem. But I've been into it so many times I think I finally got all the crud out of the system because lately it's always clean. I can't imagine a cracked line would be attitude problem but I'll give em a check. It seems to me like something is floating in the fuel tank and when it gets down to 2/3 full the floater covers the tank outlet. I've blown the supply line from the tank out many times with no noticeable change. Also, I've checked banjo fittings at screw on element filter. Another thing I've wondered about is the fuel temperature... might it be getting hot and causing a problem? But this too doesn't seem like attitude would affect it.
FIXED! Intermittent lift pump.
it is a 12 volt pump, correct? I am seeing 12'S AND 24'S. The one in my machine, it a replacement. it doesn't mount correctly, has no filter and I just keep wondering that it is at least part of the problem.
Mine's 12V, I'd guess they all are... how many batteries? What are symptoms of your problem?
Losing power, hard to start, it runs good for a while then starts bogging down. The machine has no history. I have started from scratch as far as maintenance goes. I have changed all filters and fluids. I thought I had cleaned the fuel system from the tank to the injector pump pretty thoroughly but this morning I looked at this prefilter I added when I had the fuel tank and the lines and all the banjo's off and soaking and it was full of stuff after only running for an hour or so. All of my cleaning has probably unleashed 20 years of gunk. I am pretty sure there are a number of issues I am dealing with. I am trying to keep it clean so I can see any kind of problems such as, I was losing hydraulic fluid, I had a significant leak in the right pilot. repaired that but still losing fluid. I drained, changed the filters and it seemed like there may be a leak from the tank somewhere. The tank was buried in an oily clay/pinestraw mixture so I took it out. When I was removing the lines the bottom most line on the far left next to the door was not tight at all. The previous owner was topping it off every day. This is what I am trudging through.
That's some pretty healthy brush in your trash grate. I'd expect the tank is plugging at the pickup tube or outlet. Some have a screen or you could retrofit a screen in the tank, or keep cleaning the tank until it's clean.
I guess this is the most significant issue at the moment. I cleaned the filter and it looked as bad as that picture again in a few minutes of running it.
Whoa! That fuel filter is certainly a smoking gun. Did it run good right after you cleaned the system?
Nope. It has been running badly. There have been moments of daylight but mostly darkness.
Maybe I'm a little slow here, but that tank is the hydraulic tank. On my TL150 machines, the bottom tank outlet can trap debris, as can the inlet elbow to the water trap filter.
Blew out the line from the pre filter to the tank and drained the tank. I thing Ill pour a 5 gallon bucket of the fuel back down the tank through the strainer a few hundred times to see if i can get some of the trash out of the tank I thought I had cleaned thoroughly. I had a little denial going on there. Then I'm getting rid of that old fuel. What do you do with questionable fuel? I just threw a few gallons into a brush fire but that seems like a waste. Once I get the fuel sorted I can go to the next problem...
66666666 yes, separate issue, forgive me for the confusion. I was just trying to show the extent of the grime I am dealing with.66666666666666666
I am not sure what that picture is. I mean, I see it is a log jamb of grit, Is that the water separator inlet? I had all of this apart a week ago. The 3 plugs on the bottom of the fuel tank, The fitting that sends to the separator. All the fittings soaked in thinner and cleaned with brushes and freakin' Q tips. WHY ME! I'm kidding. I needed a hobby to distract me from this dilapidated 1920 house I am restoring. Did I mention I have no kitchen? I mean, there is a walkboard across the crawl space where the kitchen used to be. Yea, I needed a hobby.
Yup, that is the water separator inlet off of a 2k hour TL150.
I drained the tank and arrived back under here. One thing I noticed after removing this fitting was a lot of fuel was pooled up the tank here. It was dry at the front plug. I'm thinking it was just the way the machine was sitting, anyway, I have a small hand transfer pump and I got all the fuel I could out of the tank. The fitting was still clean. I can't say if I got much of the trash out of the tank or not. I got some for sure but that filter made me think the tank had nothing but dirt in it. I have a confession to make. Last week when I did this I put 10 gallons of fresh fuel in the tank and then put back 10 gallons of the fuel that came out after pouring it through a screen. That fuel was bad. I don't know how old it was, if it was full of water or what. I filled the machine with 23 gallons of fresh fuel and it is running fine. Thank you guys for humoring me. I just got an oil pressure gauge I'll be installing tomorrow. Hopefully that will give me a clue about the health of this motor.
That particular elbow/ tank fitting has a sharp 90° with a subtle ledge inside it. On MY TL150 machines (all 3 of them), it was not uncommon to find a tiny piece of gravel in there, which, in turn, collected grass blades and straw. I finally modified all of mine.
What was the modification? It got down to 28 degrees here last night. It was hard to start this morning. Every light on the gauges lit up until it was running for a minute or two. I found a broken wire at the oil sending unit a few days ago and the "2.Engine Oil Pressure/Coolant Level Warning Lamp" has been blinking ever since. It seems the usual culprit is the wire in the top hose of the coolant getting in an air pocket. My coolant level is good and I actually raised up the radiator high enough to clear the hoses running under it. Door hinges is something I understand. It had been rubbing those hoses when the radiator was swung open. Now the top of the radiator is around an inch higher than the sensor. I don't think there could be an air pocket. Perhaps the engine has no oil pressure. I hope that isn't the case. I don't have a lot of faith in the gauge or the warning lights and that scares me.
I installed the oil pressure gauge. 60 pounds at cold start with low idle. After an hour it was 40 pounds at low idle and 60 at 3/4 idle.
I knew that wasn't right. These are pics of the fuel return, not the suction elbow. That is under the "X" in this pic. The one that needs cleaned is circled. Here's a before and after modified suction elbow.
Something either escaped me or someone changed something on that fitting. I don't remember that fitting being connected to anything. And if that feed was somehow eliminated there is probably not enough fuel getting from the tank to the motor unless the tank is completely full. By the time I get to a half tank it starts losing power and dying. Wait wait wait! My fuel lines are not run correctly according to that drawing. Of this I am sure. The fitting with the X is going to the water separator And I don't think that center fitting is hooked to anything. oH Man... This is probably a bigger issue than the trash in the tank. Thanks a million for remembering this. This is crazy. Something didn't seem right about the way it looked but I just assumed I didn't understand something. This is pretty awesome McCall
This is embarrassing. My rememberer is broken. My lines are fine. There is an interesting issue though. This thing with the tank full or half empty. When it is full it runs great. Half empty gags and dies. That prefilter can be filled with trash when the tank is full and doesn't seem to care. As the fuel level drops it gets more sensitive and then dies no matter how clean it looks. Wouldn't that be a fuel pressure issue?
Mine did same thing. Problem was the lift pump.
Again, that bottom draw adapter has a 90° bend in it (drilled from both side and top to intersect). It has been a major problem here. Quick and easy test...disconnect inlet from water separator and hold to end to ground. It should run like a tank drain, fast and full stream. If not, that adapter is suspect. And, yes the symptoms, in the early stages of blockage are that the machine runs good until the tank level drops. Because of the way the adapter is constructed, blowing air back thru the hose (with the filler cap off, of course), doesn't remove the partial blockage.
got it. I will get back to it. Thanks again. I have no idea what I would do without you guys. I couldn't do it. No way. What did you make that screen filter with? Was it a brainstorm thing?
lift pump too... It is on a slow boat I guess
I cut the stem at the hole. Bought fuel tank outlet strainer from Deere 544G. Trimmed and reamed strainer to snuggly fit stem. Installed Corbin clamp from NAPA assortment. Broke ears off Corbin clamp so adapter would fit the tank opening.
you could check paint sprayer filters too, that filter looks like it's a repurposed paint sprayer filter to me, but Deere would never do something like that? Graco sprayer section at Home Depot, or online, whatever mesh size you want,
I am running out of time until the after new year to dig into this any more but I moved dirt for 5 hours today. I had to clean the filter once and did your test to see how much flow there was from that line after I blew air though it with the compressor and the answer is... Not enough. Surprisingly bad.
alrighty then... This is a John Deere fuel filter. this fitting was not clogged when I removed it, that doesn't mean it isn't the source of the problem though. I also have a new lift pump but I want to see how this helps before I install it. Thanks again guys.
That looks like pretty fine mesh. I think i'd rather a very very coarse filter in the tank... just to block leaves etc. and let the smaller stuff through to be filtered out by the other two filters. Yeah, I really hate crawling under that thing and getting diesel down my arm.
Maybe, I'll let you know
Anyone have a lead on replacement lift pump for the tl140
Do you guys know there is a paper filter in the electric lift pumps ? Yep. I found replacement pumps for under $100. But did some research before I bought and did not need one . Removed outlet line from lift pump. Barely any pressure . Removed pump and removed end cap that holds filter . Yuk . Cleaned it real good and put back in since I did not have new one . Super high flow and pressure now . Runs like a champ now . What I can’t find in service manual is any info on this pump , nor can I find the wire that powers it in wiring diagram ,which sucks cause mine has no power and have a jumper wire on it now to run .
#8
Do you have a service manual? There's a picture of the electrical schematic in there and I think the lift pump is called a 'AIR OUT FEED PUMP'... it's on the lower left of the drawing. Those filters available on ebay.
Yes I have service manual on cd . Which sucks to navigate . Lol I’ll go look for what you said on it now . Thanks
BTW, the power wire comes out of the left side harness down by the bottom of the hydraulic tank. It's grounded to a stud near the pump.
Yes I can see where the wire comes out the harness and where ground is grounded . Just no power coming out the power wire . I found it on the wiring diagram now that you told me correct name and location . Lol
This company makes a feed pump just like the one in my 140. There filters are cleanable but look little different . Wonder if they work? I can’t find the type Thats in mine on eBay . https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8675
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=FACET12CYLIN This is the pumps I found but don’t need now . Look identical
Keep in mind, I'm not positive about that being the pump... just a guess.
Your info was correct about the lift pump . I found the Electical issues today .one of wires was rotted off in fuse block that powered the lift pump .