The contractor I do most of my repair work for is considering switching from Bobcat equipment (track loaders and excavators) to Takeuchi. He says the Takeuchi dealer told him their equipment was "more reliable and easier to work on as they didn't have computers". Now I haven't googled it, but I cannot imagine that Takeuchi loaders have no computers at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I have not operated or worked on any Takeuchi equipment, so I'm not sure about the differences. Quick web search seems to support Takeuchi, but some posts say the visibility is more limited than Bobcat. Also, some say the controls are jerkier than Bobcat's. This contractor installs swimming pools, so their guys are almost always in backyards where fences, decks, sheds, landscaping, and the pools themselves are in very close proximity. And other workers (human beings!) who are moving around close-by, too... so limited visibility (if true) would be a problem. Same goes for less delicate controls. I don't operate them other than testing them before/after repairs. So personally my big question is: how do they compare to Bobcat on maintenance? We have both those dealers here locally... I've had no contact with the Takeuchi dealer, but our Bobcat dealer is not "stellar" when it comes to parts. I have never called them and they had what I needed in stock... except for filters. I've had to order three drive belts in the last six months. Are the Takeuchi parts comparable in price? Bobcat parts are expensive, so I try to source parts elsewhere when possible... provided they are comparable of course. Anyway, I'd appreciate any input.
"No computers"? BWAHAHAHA. I'm pretty sure that you won't find ANY tier4 engines that aren't computerized. With that said, the 2nd greatest day in my life (well, maybe 19th) was when all 5 Bobcats (863 & 864) went to auction. Can't afford to buy Bobcats parts from local dealer either. They charge somewhere between 15 & 20% OVER list price. My Takeuchis have been good, but, I've got far less down time and issues with my Kubotas at the same point in time.
I don't have a lot of the answers that you seek but I can address some. The first thing that I would say to you is that you will get a lot of "brand loyal" responses since you have started a "Bobcat versus Takeuchi" thread. Nothing that you can do about it. Just try to filter the responses so that you can weigh objective information vs. those that might be biased. I own (3) Bobcats (an '06 435ZHS mini ex, an '06 A300 skid, and a '17 A770 skid -both skids are all wheel steer units) but I am not hugely fond of the brand. The lack of fondness stems from more than a decade of ownership (actual operation, maintenance/repair, and dealing with the local dealer and Bobcat corporate). I have never owned a Takeuchi but I have demoed them and have heard good things about them. My most recent experience with Tak was a '20 TB260 mini and I ended up buying a CAT 305.5 instead. I also demoed a Deere 50G, and a Komatsu PC 50 as well. Bobcat was not offered an invitation to the party intentionally. Now that we live in a Tier4 final era (I assume that we are talking about new or (at least) relatively new equipment) their are no such things as equipment w/o computer controlled engines, etc.. Maybe if we are talking about machines with less than 49hp. I don't have much experience with those so I suppose it's possible. In my experience Takeuchi approaches sales with a more "bare bones" style vs the "bells and whistles" style that Bobcat employs. That is to say that, in my opinion, the machines are more focused on practical application than comfort and cutting edge features (i.e. heated seats, grade control, specialty attachments, undercarriage suspensions, higher travels speeds, etc.). Some might call it "value engineering". As it relates to visibility and working tight access jobs I would say that both of these brands have proven that they can build machines for exactly this purpose...and do it fairly well. More than anything it will likely boil down to operator preference and, in most cases, will be much more a product of which specific machines you are looking at vs. a consideration that applies across an entire brand's line-up. My 435 is a ZHS (Zero House Swing) which is a particularly good design for tight access. ZHS means that here is no part of the house that hangs over the tracks. If the machine fits, you can spin the house 360 degrees without hitting what you are near. Nice feature! Bobcat has decided to no longer make this model and no longer makes a true ZHS. I believe that the E10, E20, and E35 are "zero tail", the E26 and E50 are "minimal tail", and the rest are "conventional". My 435 weighs about 11,500#. When I last demoed a Bobcat (in 2015 or 2016) it fit between an E50 and an E45 (E50 being reduced tail and E45 being a zero tail). I actually preferred the 435 over both the E50 and E45 and one reason was I thought that the visibility of the 435 was much better than both of the newer units. When I was shopping for a 5t mini in early '20 I was hoping to try an FR series Tak (many people rave about those -including KSSS on this forum) but they had discontinued them for a while. They have since returned them to the line-up. They offer a lot of cool features specific to tight access applications and I would recommend checking them out. Unfortunately they only offer them in a 13k# (TB257FR) and +/-18K# (TB280FR) machines. I can't offer you much in the way of opinions regarding the track loaders as we very rarely even use them (maybe twice in the last 20 years). I will say that my son borrowed an S76 a couple weeks ago. He only used it for about 10 minutes and the only reason I know about it is because he wanted to tell me about how much better he thought that the visibility was compared to our A300 and A770. Side note: Bobcat seems to have dropped the A series (all wheel steer) machines. Hopefully a yellow brand will decide to pick them up ( I assume, and hope, that Bobcat will let the patent run out) because it is an awesome platform. I just think it would be much better if it were a different color (as in made by CAT or Deere). To sum it all up, I think your friend would be well served to demo whichever machines he/she is interested in buying to get the performance questions answered. Support is a huge factor to consider and usually boils down to specific dealers. Your friend already knows about the local Bobcat dealer (I assume that is why we are having this conversation in the first place) and I don't have high praise for my local Bobcat dealer, or the MFR itself. I have had no ownership experience with Tak but I can get sales and support from a local dealer and United Rentals as well....Even in my little town in a relatively rural area.
I don't have a lot of experience with either but I will share a few thoughts. A 2014 Takeuchi TL250 that my father has for his business is a very strong machine. The forward visibility from normal operating position is poor (can't see the attachment plate at all when it's at ground level). To see to connect to an attachment you need to lean forward as far as possible without raising the safety bar. The travel control lever has no positive center once you move it off neutral. Which means once you're moving forward or backward, you have no feedback as to whether you're driving straight or not. Makes it difficult to be precise with movements. The loader control is fine. My experience with Bobcat is mainly with my current excavator, a 2009 E60 which is actually made by Doosan. I'm not sure when Bobcat started outsourcing the excavators to Doosan, but the reliability and parts pricing is much better than the experience I had with mid 2000's Bobcat T180 and T190 track loaders. I am curious to know if Doosan is still the manufacturer of Bobcat excavators and if they make other equipment for them as well. I would actually not really consider my E60 a Bobcat machine. It is an albino Doosan and a very good machine. I can't speak for other models.
Doosan bought Bobcat outright a few years back. It was Ingersoll-Rand before that. Before that it was Clark and Melroe and I don't know what all. All I know is they always used Kubota engines but of course Doosan put their own engines in after that.
I currently own a 2021 Takeuchi TB260 and a 2015 TL10. The only other machines I have run were a Deere 35D and Bobcat T590. I used to own a Deere 310J backhoe and a Kubota KX040 mini X a while back. Most users report the controls are more responsive on the Takeuchi equipment and I concur. I like that because I think they are more precise. I think the visibility on the TL10 is pretty good, and I have run it in places like very tight subdivisions and old parts of town. I have used the machine to backfill inside of stem walls and I have never felt like my view was obstructed in any unusual way. One thing I will complain about is that the TL10 rides very very rough. After running it for 10 hours in a whole day I feel really beat up even though I am a young man and usually don't have those kinds of problems... Also, replacing the battery in the skid steer looks like a crappy job believe it or not. The radiator has to be swung out and you have to disconnect some coolant lines to get access and then hold the radiator back with a strap and then remove the fan shroud. The new machines have a door cut in the side for access now thankfully though. Also, here in Arizona, unfortunately Ditch Witch used to be the dealer but just recently they stopped carrying the brand. So I am dreading the day something breaks on either machine I can't fix myself. All in all it is just another machine, I like mine but the dealer dropping out has got me pretty worried. I would avoid the Bobcats at all cost however, I always hear of them breaking or having other issues. Bingham equipment is the Kubota and Bobcat dealer up here and I have had very negative experiences with their mobile service, shop service, sales department, and parts department. Also, the Kubota never worked, I owned it for about 300 hours and in that time I had to call field service 4 times and take it to the shop once. Total piece of crap so I sold it. I am pretty stoked with the new TB260, it is very smooth and powerful but I feel I may have been better off going with a Deere or Cat because of their service and parts departments are much better locally.
That would explain it. Mine has a Yanmar engine in it. Pretty much just turn the key and go, and regular oil changes.
Taks are they way to go. Built well from the ground up. Service points, service access is well laid out. Under carriage and track life is better. As far as track units go. Over the many many many years in the rental business they have been the best overall machines put in fleet. Service calls are about half of other units Hardly ever get the lost the track call as we do with bobcats, deeres. We have had a few dpf/sensor issues but overall we like them and customers flat out request them. I tell you after getting all these new R series bobcats in and literally watching them fall apart with failure after failure i wouldn't wish one of those on anyone. Also engines are not manufacturer proprietary like deere, doosan ect. So software is available to owners to help with diagnostics.
Takeuchi are built like tanks. Very tough. And they have hydraulic over hydraulic controls which is the best to have.
I dont think you can compare the old 863 and 864 models to the newer t770's and newest t66 and t76. To OP - No way there are not any computers on the new Tak machines. As far as the controls, both are very smooth. Tak's seem very jerky the first time you are on one, but once you are used to them they are extremely smooth. The Bobcat ACS controls have a bit more "resistance" to them. I think they are very smooth as well. I really enjoy running them. As far as visibility I think Bobcat is better than the Tak's, but thats personal opinion.