I am restoring a burned up 2004 TB 135. I just dropped the engine back in and the engine runs great when I remove the Stop Solenoid and cut it off with my finger; however, once I install the solenoid, turn on the key switch....the one-second timer works and pulls back the plunger but when it makes the switch-over to hold the plunger it doesn't and the machine of course will not stay running but a split second. I installed a brand new wiring harness but am puzzled where the issues lies now with the circuit not holding the Stop Solenoid for the engine to remain running.
Did you install a new stop solenoid? if not then that's the first thing I'd check.
Yes, it is brand new along with the entire wiring harness. I think I will start in the right controller box and check wiring. ..I think there were two plugs in there where I may have plugged up wrong; however, I don't know if that would have anything to do with it.... when I turn on the switch, a buzzer sounds and stays on with the battery light lite up as well.
There are instances where aftermarket solenoids have the hold and pull wires reversed. Measure white to black, followed by red to black, for resistance. The smaller ohm number is the pull (closer to dead short), and, the larger is, obviously, the hold.
You mean the buzzer and light are going with the motor running? (if not then it sounds normal.) I would check the new solenoid as heymccall suggests... besides being switched it could be bad also... seems like more and more parts these days are bad right out of the box
These are genuine Takeuchi parts but I will most definitely check what you suggest. I still have the old one as well. It works but the wires are burned up.. I will figure out how to jewelry rig it with some new connectors or roach clips to test and see if I get the same results while hooked to the wiring harness.
No, the buzzer and battery light are on while it is running. I'm gonna run those test and see what happens before I take the right controller cover back off and check two wiring plugs that I may have hooked up incorrectly.
You sure you are interpreting what you have there correctly? Stop solenoids have not been pull and hold coils for more years than i can remember. Most modern stop solinoids are +,_, and ign. Electronic chip inside does all the logic. Having no ign might also explain buzzer issue.
If u search TB135 injection pump shut off solenoid in google, up pops a HEF thread about the same thing.. Gary Huff lays it out nicely w/ a wiring diagram.. Its titled>> Takeuchi TL130 Fuel stop solenoid you might be able to search it on this page using the search function.??{up top}
I am confident that it is pull and hold because it is a three wire solenoid and my service manual explained why...one pull and one hold. Also, in an the engine with the old one...wires burned and all by doing the "touch this wire then hold this wire" to make the engine run. After I installed the new stop solenoid, I was trying to figure why it wouldn't start but for a second...once I removed the stop solenoid, the engine starts up and runs fine; however, the battery light and buzzer is on while the engine is running.
Hello theppumpguy! that fuel pump help you walked me thru has this engine running great.....just trying to figure this puzzling piece out. I will Google as you suggest too.
If that circuit is correct for your machine it is not a solinoid but a stop motor being driven in each direction. With the symptoms you have it appears emergency stop relay 2 is being pulled in by the controller straight after a start. It may not be detecting oil pressure or some other critical info causing shut down.
Hi Chevy, am trailing behind a bit in the thread. Do you have wiring diagram from your manual? A picture of solinoid would help cheers
Here are pics.....it is not the solenoid because I tried the old and same results. Not sure if related, think separate but every time I turn on the light switch, it blows the 20 amp fuse....wiring diagram doesn't show they are connected tho...so maybe another issue to deal with later.
Hello 007, Did you see the pics? Also, it sounds like I may have to pull the dreaded fuse box panel back out and troubleshoot....that is one tedious job but appears the way this is heading. Is there any relays that I can check b4 the dreaded task? Also, any help identifying these particular parts would be great help.....
Have you confirmed power on the hold wire. Use some jumper leads so you can put the test light or meter which ever you prefer in Your lap while you turn the key switch. If power comes and goes you have a emergency shutdown issue as other stated. If no power at all began tracing to make sure fuses havepower across them and to the relay and out of the controller to the relay. Have had this happen on several bobcats lately. Also check battery voltage and battery it’s self. It can play a big role in the function of the solenoid.
Mbar, I did check the power reading and I don't believe I got any reading on the red hold wire. Going to do another check then check fuse block connections as you suggest. I keep the battery on a charger while not in use so it is fully charged. I'm kinda thinking when this machine got caught in a fire, the heat may have damaged whatever relay or controller. I replaced the entire wiring harness but didn't replace any modules on the brain box where all of it hooks together at the fuse box.
Hi Heavy Chevy, The circuit is an old fashion way of doing things and a bit over complicated but works. The diagram is blurred and hard to read and the critical part i need has been cut off. Wire 3 on the Sol is grnd, Wire 2 is the pull in and 1 the hold in. Maybe you can read colours indicated. Solinoid timer and stop solinoid relay are responsible for momentary power on wire 2 when you turn key on and then there job is finished. Emergency relay, emergency idle relay one and two are all associated with hold in circuit. Two of those relays are latching relays which mean other circuits have to be good for them to latch up and continue to applying power to wire 1 after engine starts. The items latching the relays are over to the right cut off but i see a list there of items that are prob involved being oil pressure Sw, water temp sw, and cleaner clogging sw i assume air cleaner?. I don't see the point of pulling out fuse panel as the fault blowing a fuse would likely not behind the panel. When you say light is blowing fuse what light do you mean exactly. Light circuit not shown on the diagram you provided. Cheers
In that "other thread" it talks about the "horn" fuse somehow being in the run system, so don't overlook that.
007, once I get back home late this evening, I will troubleshoot more as you and others have suggested. Do you know if those "hold" relays you mention are located on the same panel the fuse block is located? I sure hope as a last resort I have to pull that thing back out....but if I do, no choice...must fix the problem....it is just work right...lol. If I'm not successful with all the current advice, I will take a better pic out of the book for the writing diagram. The pic I added was after I had blown it up and color coded for my ease in tracing and reading. More to follow.
I will most definitely check that too.....gonna unplug harnesses that are not the new one I just replaced as trying to isolate these two electrical issues....more to follow.
Sorry, I meant the light switch on the right panel. Everytime I turn the switch to turn on the lights, it blows the 20 amp fuse.....gonna trace and see if a naked wire somewhere that is causing that....I imagine these are two separate issues as I didn't see where these circuits crossed on the wiring diagram. I have a dumb question but this excavator is so new to me that I don't know where the horn switch is located? Any idea?
Not certain if applies here, on other systems with a hot kill solenoid the linkage needed to be adjusted so the plunger could reach full travel to connect the hold in winding for after the pull in winding cut off. Should feel the detent in the solenoid when full extends.
Isn't the horn on top of the stick? Can't remember if the 04's had a bunch more buttons on them... As for light circuits the blow fuses look at the wires from the light itself to where it goes down the boom and into the house, I have seen quite a few that get rubbed through near the pins.
o 007, I solved the light switch fuse blowing problem. It was 3A diode that is shorted; however, still trying to isolate this stop solenoid issue. I included a couple of diagrams as I can find the "emergency relay" but cannot locate where the "emergency idle 1 and 2 relays " are located. It appears the "emergency relay" is on the fuse panel. Any idea where the other two are located? I did a voltage test on the 3 wire solenoid wires....the white wire reads 12v for second then the red wire reads nothing when the switch is supposed to happen.
Ronsii, found it and yes it is on the right controller...left button. Found the light switch problem...it was a 3A doide shorted out. Still working on the other main issue still.
Hi Chevy, Sorry i am not familiar with your machine and only as good as the info you give me. If your machine is true to the documentation in the picture above they appear to be the pair together below stop sol relay and down and to the left of stop sol timer. They appear to be marked just emergency relay. If they are not there that is interesting because in the back of my brain im sure i have seen this circuit some time ago and that logic was done in the controller, maybe a later model dash? You have to be as specific as possible with info. Unless your wiring has been fudged there is no diodes in the light circuit down stream of the fuse according to wiring diagram provided. According to diagram ign on feeds 20A fuse which supplies light sw which only supplies power to 4tail lights 2 boom lights and 2 dash board lights. Where exactly in the diagram have your found a shorted diode?? May i ask how you are testing diode? You removed diode and fuse now is good and lights work? I think you are misinterpreting relay logic for stop sol, as from what i can tell when the ignition is enabled power will appear on both white and red (no switching). White will be for a moment and red will remain energized if other relays are happy with the other shut down circuits. Without a general description of operation the best i can determine how it works is as follows. Almost all decisions to keep the engine running are made from the controller by activating the emergency relay which places power on the red wire. The one exception is an over temp signal which over rides the controller and latches up emergency idle relay 1 and slows the engine and remains latched until ignition is turned off. At the same time emergency idle relay 2 is latched and over rides the emergency relay and keeps power on the red wire. I can only assume they are protecting the turbo by keeping the engine idling for a period of time?? Do you have turbo? So basically if the controller is happy with all the things it can deem to cause a shut down when you turn the ignition on in a blink of an eye it is activating the emergency relay applying power to red along with the white. So the controller is ether faulty or a sensor or the first place i would start would be is the emergency stop button input coming in at top of controller. Has some one pushed the button in or is it faulty, seen plenty with water in them?? Hope this helps you on your quest. Cheers
007, you are 100% correct as I just discovered that 30 minutes ago when I plugged two more diodes into the circuit by and blew fuse again....that is when I realized those two plugs are for tail lights.....lol. I made a bad assumption that because those two pig tails were adjacent to the decel motor and diode fit there, ...big mistake. That problem is corrected now.....but about to go take down the fuse block panel to replace the one emergency relay I see on the diagram......I still cannot find the other two emergency idle relays 1 & 2 according to the diagram.
Im just going from what I read on the other thread about "his" solenoid doing the same thing.. .. doesn't it go thru a "timer" relay.?? One of the other guys rigged up a "hot wire" from the starter, to only energize the shut off sol. when he was cranking because his "pull-in" was bad & he couldn't figure it out.. He had a "hold" {run} voltage but not "pull".. Miller> not on this type of solenoid.. its "fixed"..
007, where is the button located that you refer too on top of the controller? If you are talking about the left and right controls....left side has left and right button for auxillary hydraulics and the right controller has left button for horn and right button for decel. I pulled the fuse box panel down and tried my limited knowledge troubleshooting to no avail....I have accepted defeat after 6-1/2 hrs but regrouping to try again...gotta figure this out. 1) It should not matter that I don't have the hydraulic pump hooked up yet correct? As those pigtails for the two solenoids are still unhooked. 2) Let me make sure I'm this correctly....I have the stop solenoid hooked up but not installed into the fuel pump ....should matter should it reference the Red HOLD wire keeping the plunger in? I turn the key, the plunger pulls in for a second then releases. I just want a sanity check to make sure I'm not suppose to have it bolted in to get a true reading. 3) The diagram below showing the front side of the fuse panel, I drew a yellow arrow showing where the Emergency Relay is ....still not sure where the other two Emergency Idle relays 1 & 2 are located. There are 7 of those same relays inside the box between the two sides.
No, this machine does not have a turbo.
I thought hold didn't work until feedback from alternator?
Heymccall, this is all new to me....learning trail by fire. When I bypass the stop solenoid, the battery light on the display is flashing and the alarm is going off.
If I removed the controller, and took it to the dealer, can they test it without me having to buy one first? I am just about to the point to ask the dealer if they can send someone out and test and tell me what is the problem.
I KNOW on the Kubota 2 wire solenoids, + & -, they gotta be body grounded to work.. even w/ a hot and a ground run straight off the battery.. its the "damdest thing".. I STILL don't understand it.. I never had to trace the problem your having..
I thought about that too and ran a jumper cable ground from battery to solenoid....no change....it beat me down today....lol....like that fuel pump did....until we finally got it...lol.
Hi Chevy, Maybe they just slow the engine when it over heats? read the manual?. I think those relays are prob there, just a matter of identifying. The safety relay checks the alt operation and inhibits starting only. But thats another good clue you broke out saying the battery light flashes when bypassed. The sw i was referring to is shown in the diagram as emergency release so i assumed there was a emergency stop sw like a big red button somewhere on the machine. If it was me at this point I would install the stop sol and adjust it like the other fellow mentioned. I would make sure it had oil in it and install a temporary mechanical oil gauge on a tube. Make sure it had water and hydro oil and so on. I would remove the red holdin wire from the relay and feed it with power from jumper wire just before i started the engine. I would run the engine make sure it had oil pressure and see whats not working especially on the dash. Whats not working is probably causing shut down. Temp reading oil light air cleaner light and so on. Even if you cannot find those two temp relays if they are latched in a fault condition the dash should show a temp warning light on. If that fuse able link is blown on the alt will cause may ham as the console monitors the alt along with the safety relay and will bring batt light on. A new controller will be eye watering expensive probably and any good dealer will not be happy to fault find using new parts. You really should keep going because from what i can see there are three main things being water temp, oil pressure and air cleaner. I don't think a fault in the alt would cause shut down, only bring on light and buzzer. So i would check all those basic sensors and wiring at least before sending off to dealer. A dealer will just throw an auto elec at it to figure it out and he will be pissed because you have messed with all the wiring making a hard job for him.
Thx much, I will try again next weekend when I'm back there. I am going to find the manual oil pressure switch and run a tube as suggested. I have have the engine apart, got all the water out, reassembled and I have run it several occasions ....the temp gauge works as the temp came up to normal operating temp...gonna try the oil pressure gauge as I don't feel 100% on that with just a light. The machine is full of fresh oil and the oil pressure light is not on while running. Will post again after more troubleshooting. Don't want the dealer out as that is $100 service call plus $150/hr ....whew!
Finally! Thanks to all help....I solved the stop solenoid problem. I traced all the relays and replaced a few and that did the trick. I put a manual oil pressure gauge on and the pressure was around 90 psi. I can now start and shut the machine off with the key! My battery light still flashes and buzzes so will have to figure that one out later. My next issue is I hooked up the hydraulic pump and lines and started the machine...bled the air; however, the right controller hydraulics will not work. Not sure what the issue is here....looking for help again as I'm so close now. Also have to replace some seals as the fire dried them out and it leaks like a sieve.
Hi 007. I have been reading your thread here. I have a similar problem. My machine was running fine one day then in the morning I went to start it up and it wouldn’t start. I found I have no power to the fuel stop solenoid or the horn. All fuses are good and have power. None of my dash lights are coming on. I’m just wondering what fuses you replaced. I opened up the dreaded fuse box under the controller so I have access to all the relays under there. Just don’t know what ones to replace? Thanks
Hey Chase, I'm just seeing your message now and am pretty sure that you have solved that problem now. I just had someone hit me up with the same problem and I went back to search what I had written years ago and saw your message. Did you fix the problem?