First let me say hello, this is my first new thread post and I am hoping someone can help me get a problem on my dozer worked out. My 1980 International TD15C powershift has lost low/forward gear. High/forward, low/reverse and high/reverse work okay. I have checked the pressure at the F1 port on the range selector valve and everything seems right. Anybody have any suggestions as to what to look for next. As stated earlier the only thing lost is low/forward, everything else works as it should. Thanks
Hi there, TD15c's can be temperamental in their transmissions and some times take a bit to understand but in saying that they are a great tractor. They can suffer from internal leakage in their pistons but if they do they generally slip after changing gear and this will normally affect more than one gear. These transmissions have manifold with plugs in them so that you can check the pressure that is going through each shaft to suppy the pistons. From memory there is one on the front of the trans and one on the back. Without looking at a book I think the rear one is on the P.T.O. shaft (winch drive) which is in line with the input from the torque convertor. The front one is off to one side and will unbolt without removing the trans, when unbolted the end of the shaft is exposed along with 4 piston type seal rings. As I said you can check the pressures here, If you have good pressure here chances are you need to dig deeper, if your pressure is not good here try looking at your control valve. Hopefully this is of some help to you, when the transmission are right they are good and give good service. As I said a great tractor, did a lot of hours on my one and loved it, Good luck.
I spent close to 20000 hrs on two 15cs and one 15b back in the 70/80s and never had to many problems with transmissions apart from general wear and tear after many hrs. Check the filter and suction screen for debris from clutch plates etc, how many hrs since last rebuild? could be clutch plates have worn out to the point where they dont work, after all 1st fwd is the one that gets the hardest life. Do you have a shop manual as that may help in trouble shooting. Hope u have a simple fix, what part of NZ are u in. Cheers RDG.
does it have a clutch pressure gauge on the dash ?
Yes, it does have clutch pressure and when the hi/lo range stick is in neutral, you can shift the powershift and watch the gauge needle "bump" when you shift.
I'm from the state of Kentucky in the USA. I do have a service manual but it does not say anything about checking pressure in the end of the shafts. That sounds like that should be the next step. Could you tell me more about where to find these plugs? I did see two 1/2" pipe plugs on the top left hand side of the trans cover could they be the ones? Thanks
Hi there again, the plugs to check the pressure at the shaft ends are (or should be) located on two bolt on manifolds (about the size of your fist). The rear one is bolted to the rear of the trans and has the winch shaft going through it. It also goes into the bevel gear housing. It cannot be removed without removing the trans from the tractor, but there should be 2 (half inch I think) plugs in it. They could be difficult to get to. The front manifold bolt onto the front of the trans housing with 3 or 4 (3/8 or 7/16 bolts 9/16 or 5/8 heads). This manifold should have 2 plugs in it as well. This manifold can be unbolted and will expose the end of the shaft. I do not have a service manual any more, but have a look in yours to find out which shaft gives you the forward gears.If you have good pressures here I suspect you will be digging deeper. Cheers 68M.
Be careful not to drop any dirt in these holes as it would not take a lot to block the small holes in the accelerating pistons.68M.
If low forward 1st gear only! slips, then the problem will be in the low clutch pack in the "steering drive" you will need to test that, not the trans, you can watch the drive shaft spin in low first if you want, that would tell you the trans is applying power to the steering drive where the low and hi clutches are. The steering drive clutch pressure should be around 100 psi?. Make sure you have the correct pressure there first before you go further.
TD 15c's do not have high & low steering (like TD25's). Drive shaft will also spin if trans clutch packs are slipping. Often if there is a problem in a clutch pack, when it is selected it may feel like it wants to engage and drive and may at low idle stop the drive shaft from turning, but as soon as some power is applied it will slip and the drive shaft under the floor plate will spin TD15c's can slip in there steering but chances are it will only be on one side whilst under load. Cheers
68m is right in that they dont have a two speed steering like the 25s, I would be looking to see whats in the suction screen and filter, if clutch plates have disintergrated then there could be material in them. Cheers RDG.
Pulled suction filter yesterday, was clean. Low forward is the is the only problem, it has nothing. No warning either, just backing up and when shifted from low/reverse to low/forward, no movement at all. Thanks and keep giving me ideas, I really need to get this dozer going!
The range selector spool valves are under the seat on top off the trans. If you pull up the floor plates and look next to where the steering levers are attached you will see a flat plate with 8 bolts I think there 3/8 bolts the plate would measure something like 2’’x 8’’ inches. Under that plate there are three spools one is forward speed selector one is revs speed selector the last is lockout. Take the plate off and look at spools see if they are all in the same position or is one hung up. The two speed selector spools will look the same the lock out will be different. The problem will be in your forward speed selector spool.
I should have said could it be in the forward speed selector spool. it could also be in the range selector or in the trans.
Removed cover from spools, springs were good, spools seemed to move easy enough. When I hooked gauge to the line between the shifting spool and range spool, pressure was up to specs. I have worked on a few Allis Chalmers farm tractor powershift trans before, used compressed air to trouble shoot them. Do you suppose that if I could hook air to the system that I could tell if the spools are moving, or better yet hear if the clutch packs are locking? Just a thought!
There are a heap of hoses running from the trans to the selector lever up near the armrest, think they had a plate or something that they all went into at each end with O rings for each hose, may be an O ring has gone there or could be something in the lever control valve it self, guess there would be O rings /seals etc in those places as well that might cause loss of presssure to a clutch pack. RDG.
I have not tried the air trick before so cant say yes or no. but you could have some debris in one of the spools or ports.
Over on Red Power magazine there is a bloke called Rocko 59 who is an IH mechanic in BC or AB who might be of some help. Cheers RDG.
HI Now that the suction screen is clean (lucky you) it points to the pilot pressure control system from the lever to the main spool valve maybee at fault . If you can locate the forward and reverse low gear hoses from the lever to the valve ,(I know they are all together in a loom) and hard to get at but if you can swap those hoses over better at the lower end and see wether you loose low reverse ,you will isolate the pilot system from the main system .you will see from the drawing that forward 1&2 are on the input shaft hope this helps regards Malcolm
have the same problem with my jd450g dozer pushes great at first once it heats up it loses 1st gear im wondering if my fix will be the same as yours can any one help us?
Didn't switch hoses, but did check pressure of F1 at the main spool earlier, checked to specs. Have been using it to clean cattle feed pads this week and hope to get it back closer to the shop sometime next week, will swap hoses then. Will also try Rocko 59. Thanks for all the help!
Hey Malcolm, swapped F1 and F2 hoses, now when lever is in F1 position dozer moves fast forward, when lever is in F2 position dozer does not move. Didn't swap the forward/reverse hoses, will try that next and see what happens. Will keep everyone posted.
I used to run a TD15 that had problems in the gears. It wasn't a fluid issue. The shifter on the right hand side of the floor had to be in high range. If it was put into low range it wouldn't move at all. Ran it for many years like that with no issues.
Hi there, You have eliminated the hand control so far. If as I said you can get to the plugs at the ends of the shafts it will tell you a lot. Looking at the diagram posted by Malcolm the imput shaft is you forward shaft and the plugs will be at the rear of the trans before the back (bevel gear) housing. They will be hard to get to and will involve removing batteries etc. If you have bad pressure here look for a control problem, if you have good pressure here you do not have a control problem and the problem is most likely inside the transmission. Oil pressure builds up in this cavity and behind you accelerating pistons, from here it bleeds through two very small holes and into you main piston to engage the clutch. If there is a large leak in the main piston, the pressure in the shafts may be good, but the two little holes may not be letting enough oil though to build up pressure and engage the main clutch. Aside from this you may have something broken in the clutch (e.g. stripped spline, circlip come off). If you do not find a control problem you will need to pull the trans much as it is the last thing you will want to do. If it happened all of a sudden it suggest that something has let go and more than likely inside the trans. The control side of the trans is pretty basic and does not give a lot of trouble, if the gauge on the dash shows good pressure in all gears chances are the control side of the trans is O.K. If there is an internal leak in a main clutch the gauge on the dash will likely drop off a bit and flicker a bit at low idle when that gear is engaged. Good luck I hope you find a control problem Cheers 68M.
sound like the low clutch pack has come apart one of my custmor tractor did that one time while he was using it every thing else worked good
Hi now that you have located the f1 hose ok you could disconect it at the bottom end and put a gauge into it or put the end in a bucket with some rag around it ,give the lever a flick just to make sure that hose is ok and not blocked with the inside core coming apart ,better to find now than later . But so far it points to being an internal problem, If with the hi -lo lever in gear and the brake on the universal still spins while the dash gauge reads ok yet locks up in the 3 other gears then it will be internal . best of luck Malcolm
Dad had 15c that lost 1st reverse. Its a very cheap seal but you have to pull the trans apart to get at it.
Brainzie, You could well be right, there are several rubber seal rings and quite a few hook type piston seals in these transmissions any one of which could be damaged not to mention the sealing plates on the centre discs between the pistons. The most likely one that you refer to is the square section seal ring that sits on the outside of the aluminium plate that form part of the piston housings. They are hard to assemble without damaging them, as they have to slide past a groove for the circlip that holds the piston assembly together. I used to fill this groove with wire so that the seal would slid past it without catching. Hows it going Allis4x4man have you got any further diagnosing your problem, Cheers.
68m the main input shaft on a 15c trans goes though the rear main frame to the planetary and brake housing. It also acts as a pto to drive a winch the only way to get to the end of this shaft is to take the back inspection plate off of the rear of the tractor and you will see the splined shafted above the pinion shaft. The other side of the shaft is where the u joint comes from the torque converter. I don’t think there is any way to test pressure at the end of this shaft. I could be wrong.
Correct, the shaft goes straight through into the back housing and as I have said provides drive for a winch if fitted. Much as it's a while since I worked on one I'm sure mine had two plugs on the trans housing near where the shaft goes into the rear housing. Its right at the point where the slip rings are on the shaft. You are right, the test point are not on the shafts, but just before the oil goes into them. This shaft (forward) you can not get to without removing the trans, the other one (reverse) you can remove a small bolt-on housing at the front of the trans and expose the slip rings, not that this is where the problem lies.
68 sorry I though you were saying end of the shaft. There are two pipe plugs on the removable manifold seal housing that covers the end of that shaft. with the trans installed the two plugs would be between the back of the trans and mainframe the plugs are on the side of the manifold so they point up so you might be able to get them out with a ratchet and extension. What pressure are you looking for at this point if I have a trans in good shape are you looking for main clutch pressure or less do you test in gear or does it matter? I have never run pressure test at this point before trying to learn something new thanks
Hi TD15c, I sold my TD15 about 10 years ago and do not have a service manual, so anything I say is from memory. If you are working on your tractor, please read the service manual to confirm that what I say is correct, I do stand to be corrected, but in saying that I did have quite a bit to do with the trans and any other part of the tractor for that matter. These plug go into the oil supply for each clutch pack, the two on the rear housing are for the two forward gears and two on the front housing are for the reverse gears. When the machine is in neutral there should be lube pressure at all points, when a gear is engaged one of the points (plugs) should read full transmission pressure, depending on which gear is engaged. I don't think they mention these test point in the service manual and probably for good reason as you cannot afford to drop any dirt into these holes. As I have said the holes in the accelerating pistons that supply the main pistons are tiny and would not take a lot to block. If your transmission is going good, DO NOT remove them. If you do remove them make sure everthing is spotlessly clean. The reason I mentioned these test points is, if you have good pressure here when the gear is selected and your transmission is not functioning correctly chances are you have a problem inside the transmission and it will have to come out anyway. If you have an internal leak chances are at full throttle the pressure here will be good, but at low idle pressure may drop off and flicker (fluctuate) whilst in gear, this can normally be seen on the dash gauge as well. I hope this all make sense, have a good day, 68M.
the hi/low lever needs to be in gear ... if you have clutch pressure you need to do a torque stall with the machine at operating temperature and that will tell you right away... I have been working on Td15s for 25 years and I can help... [email protected]
Hey 68 sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner. But been real busy here the weather has been real good and we usually have snow on the ground and 8 to ten inches of frost in the ground, So been doing dirt work and winter shop work. Your right the test points aren’t in the manual so I have never used them, but the plugs are there and I always wondered why. Next time I have a trans problem I will have another tool in my chest. Thanks
I have been an IH mechanic since 1989 if you want to know how to check your transmission I can help... [email protected] .. You need to do a torque stall and that will tell you in ten minutes. Have you checked the suction screen for disc material or metal on the screen? If you use first forward for a lot of your work then it is likely that your first gear clutch pack is worn out.
I currently operate a TD 15... but I don't know what exact model because it has been all repainted..it does have the steering in which you can put either lever forward (high low)??? The drive shaft does spin as soon as the machine is started...does that signify any problems? Where can I find the suction filter on this and does anybody know the model I am currently operating...I apologize for my ignorance. Some pics of the 15
The one in the pics is a 15E so will have the two speed steering. RDG.
Timberghost you have a 15e like rdg said. I don’t know much about a 15e so I can’t help you with your suction filter. If you don’t get answers here I would start a new tread for your 15e questions. When you start the machine and it is in neutral the drive shaft between the converter and the Trans should spin. When in gear with brakes on it should stop and should not move even if you put full power to the motor, unless you pull through the brakes and the machine moves, that is a stall test you can do it in all gears. That’s how it works with a td15c anyway. Good luck
I can get you all the books you need for a TD15E and all the parts you need. International and Dresser machines are very simple to test the transmission and the two speed rear end.Send me an email if you need more info... [email protected] IH mechanic for more than 25 Years
I found the model number and serial number on the plate by the engine. I should've done that in the beginning but I'm not the sharpest knife in the cupboard. Thank you guys for the help.
i have a td15 c all gears work but under heavy push tracks stop turning lift blade a bit fine dose not get hot is it hard take number one pack out number 2 pack pushes fine. thanks
on a td 15 dozer no. 1 gear stops under heavy load no. 2 seams fine how hard is it to take out no.1 pack.thanks
Do Both tracks stop under heavy load or just one side.if it's both sides you will probably have to pull the trans. if it is on one side may be able to adjust the planetary steering brake .
both thanks
If it not the planetary steering brakes and if it's your first gear clutch Pac or seals then you have to pull the trans.the trans comes out from the top.
You have a bit of work on with this problem, firstly its cab off, then floor plates and belly plates, drain hydraulic and transmission systems, remove hydraulic pump and pipe work and all the top deck stuff including fuel tank, then remove torque converter, then you can focus on the nasty bolts that hold the transmission in place, there is 100 plates in total in the four packs plus some interesting flat section seals you will need to replace, it 's not an easy task to tackle and the pipes from the control lever to the control valve chest are many, best of luck as it will take more than a day to sort. tctractors