G'Day Gents - Maybe some of you have done the 'trick' of reaching in the starter opening in the bellhousing to dress up the ring gear? The situation is that my heretofore poorly maintained 490D has a ring gear that is at least half missing/smashed/mangled - and I'd like an idea of a tool that I could 'reach' into this opening and grind the remaining gears to a slight angle (instead of the present bluntness), so as to defer pulling the motor. Thoughts??? More background: The situation is that I had a bad solenoid stud on the Densi (sp) starter, the shop would not sell me just the stud... "Okay fine, rebuild the whole thing". When I went to install it, I was aghast when I glanced in the hole! ointhead I mention this as the starter is in perfect working condition - but regrettably, 4 or 5 times out of 6 try's, the starter will just bang into the ring gear instead of properly engaging... this cannot continue, and will rapidly get worse. I do not want to pull the motor, having only moved a few tablespoons of dirt, and invested thousands on this new-to-me machine. Assuming I can find some sort of air tool, and reach in there, four additional questions present themselves: ~ Do I grind on both sides of each tooth (minimizing the removal of steel of course), or do I 'slant' it to better receive the starter drive? ~ Assuming slanted would be better, would I slant it opposite of the starter drive tooth angle??? ~ Can I safely turn the motor over with a small flat bar by prying from the side of the starter opening (with the throttle all the way forward/off)? ~ Maybe I should pointy up my starter drive??? (A lot easier to replace this, than yanking the motor!) My exasperation on the prospect of removing the engine (or maybe just the pump?) is exacerbated by the fact that my farm is out in the sticks, and the mud - meaning just hiring a service truck to get in here may be a challenge. Therefore, thanks in advance for those of you who will provide some thoughts on how to jury-rig the situation, rather than 'doing it right' at this time. (The machine is just short of 10,000 hours, but purrs like a kitten - but at some point I will have to rebuild her...) Thanks again! Mark
you can probley pull the engine in about the same amount of time and headaches as doing a presidential solution and have it fixed right and not have to worry about it:my2c
I have had many customers that take the option to do nothing. An old bendix on the starter and a mangled flywheel will not mesh well. A lot of time just the new starter bendix will help cure the interface. Only problem is they don't last as long. Had a customer with a terex square shooter forklift that went 3 years with the new starter routine till they decided to pull the engine. Starter life was at first about a year then six months. Got to the point we were swapping them every 2 months toward the end. Never hurts to try but don't be surprised if your rebuilt starter only lasts weeks. Could also mean being able to start it to crawl it to a better place to pull the engine.
I tend to agree with clintm, the time you would spend grinding an angle on each tooth of the flywheel ring gear, and even then may be a solution that still doesn't solve your problem leaving you back at square one, I'd put the starter back on, keep whacking at it until it fires off, then move it to a more suitable location to perform repairs. The engine doesn't have to be removed. Instead, drain the oil from the hydraulic tank, disconnect oil and electrical connections to the hyd pump, then pull the pump and pump drive gearbox. Then you can remove the flywheel and install a new ring gear.
I'll add one more vote to replace the ring gear. A little work now will save you aggravation down the road. I can guarantee if you don't fix it right it will let you down at the worst time.
well it may not be the best fix but it can be done in a pinch . The beauty of this problem is that most of the time the flywheel stops in the same spot so you would only have to grind about 10 teeth . turn the engine a bit by hand and check the rest of the teeth, I think you'll find they're not that bad. You can see what angle on one side to grind by looking at the other teeth.
You can pull that pump and flywheel in about 4 hours or less. Once you can see the entire ring gear you can make an informed decision on the repair.
On top of the 4 hours add about one hour to remove the existing ring gear and fit a new one. Time well spent IMO.
I definitely agree that swapping the ring gear will be a much better long term repair. But if I needed to get it going to get it running and track out of the mud I'd put a starter on it to get it to move to a better place just as option.
Thank you Everyone!! Couple of follow-ups.. with the pump pulled, does one 'cut' the ring gear to release it from the flywheel? And the only ring gear I have installed was the trick where the flywheel goes in the freezer, and a heated gear is then set carefully on the flywheel whilst on clean, flat concrete... Do I go this route, that is, pulling the flywheel, or can I tap it on, while the flywheel is still bolted on the engine? Also, FYI - the starter is all reconditioned, with a new 'bendix' (drive gear)...Can I sharpen the starter drive a bit?? (In addition to the touching up the flywheel?) ~ Mark
I would not sharpen the bendix on the starter. Engineers have design that and I would imagine they do a better job with it then you can with a die grinder. Also I would not be hammering on the end of the crank (side load on the bearings). I have never put a flywheel in the freezer. Just lay it flat and then heat the ring gear evenly all the way around. Just slide it on and let it cool.
The flywheel needs to be removed to replace the ring gear. You can knock the gear off very easily with a hammer and drift then heat the new ring gear up in the oven and it will almost drop on. Sometimes a slight tap is needed to seat it if it cools too fast.
You can drill the old ring gear with a suitable sized bit and then give it a good whack in the same place with a chisel and a 4lb hammer. The gear will split and can then simply be prised off. As others have said, lay the flywheel flat on the ground with the new ring gear on top of it. Use a gas axe and go round and round the gear, heating it evenly as you go. After a few minutes of this it will have expanded far enough either to fall into position under its own weight or maybe with the lightest of taps.
Got it Sir - and thanks everyone... yes, round and round with the torch. Hopefully a little 'tuning' with a die-grinder will buy me some time. (Really digging this forum. Yes, pun intended.) Mark
And make sure to take note of which way the tapered part of the teeth are facing on the old ring gear so you get the new one on the right way.
Oh yas.......... That's usually an Eeyore moment when you realize you've just shrunk your new ring gear on the wrong way round......
Yes, a critical 'point' (get it?) Thanks! (I could see myself forgetting this...)
Also take notice of how far on the flywheel the original ring gear is. I have seen flywheels that you can pound the ring gear way beyond where it is designed to be. Don't ask me how I know !
On a 4045 there is a step in the flywheel it comes up against. Can't go too far.
Any pics of what the bad part looks like? If you are trying to clean up the old one, you want the slant on the back side of the gear, and a sharp, clean edge on the front side that the starter contacts. If it fails 4 out of 5 times, I think I'd mark the front pulley and turn the engine over by hand to the "good" spot before starting it, rather than put any time into the old gear and risk running it off balance with grit all over.
So...if indeed, only 20% are badly damaged (I can only hope) - perhaps a technique would be to idle down, but not shut the fuel off completely, but at super low idle 'stall' the engine so that it stops in a random spot, instead of where it 'normally' would? Does this make sense, 'influencing' the machine to stop its revolution at a spot other than where it 'naturally' would?? Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
I don't think you will make much difference in where it stops. Any ring gear I've changed on a six cylinder was always bad in one or two spots for about 6 to 10 teeth. Whenever I put a clutch in a truck I always put the adjuster to the bottom by the access hole and it will almost always stop there making it easier for adjustment.
I wouldn't do that, I've never seen a 4045 do it but I've seen a 6068 lug down and start running backwards from a partial stall. It's not good at all. Plus if your hyd pump controls are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to kill it even at idle, it will destroke the pump. If your belts are in good shape and tight you should be able to rotate to motor slowly by pulling on the fan by hand.