Talking to a friend / mechanic who has a business and he said new tier 3 engines have shut him out of repairs. He said they are dealer only now due to computers. Any experience on this matter even tier two? When was each tier implimented? Thanks!
We have several 2008 and 2009 Peterbilts, some Cats and some Cummins. The Cat engines we can still diagnose with our Cat ET. The Cummins on the other hand has quit selling their service tool customers. A tool salesman stopped by last week and said that he will have(probably by now) the service tool for all of them,as the manufacturer was releasing them or something. That particulate filter is a dealer only service item. It seems like we have 10 times the trouble out of the ones that have the Cummins.
Chasing The White Rabbit EPA & CARB Tier came in 1997. Tier 2 2002. Tier 2 engine can be up graded is some cases to Tier 3. PM Filters on the other hand are self-cleaning to a point and then require service (cleaning) I guess only the dealer is capable of cleaning? Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel 15 PPM sulfur has to be used with PM filters and that started 6/1/06 on road use in Calif. I missed taking a picture the other day watching 4 train locomotives pulling empty cars, the visable smoke that would be common 15 years ago, and this is Calif. These engines must have filled up out of state were they did not get ULS. With the use of ULS Diesel EPA, & CARB and other's should back down and look at the gains and effect on clean air that has taken place and stop chasing ( The White Rabbit) after goals that were proposed that had to be attained years ago. Tax Day Tea Party 4/15/09
Modern Diesel engines are very much like their petrol/gas cousins, in that they use a variety of sensors and a ECU to control the engine. Unfortunately that is the price that has to be paid for efficiency and cleaner burning Diesels. Obviously they have also build in the a service reset facility, which is good from the point of view of knowing that the engine has been regularly serviced but the down side is that you have to have a reset tool/computer. Seems to me it is another way to fleece the customer as the manufacturers could have agreed on a standard, which would enable an independent mechanic to only have to buy one set of reset tools but then the authorized dealers would miss out on business. However in time we may find that the manufacturers have to give in to consumer demand, for example if manufacturer A sells service tools at a 'reasonable' price to mechanics, whilst manufacturer B does not. Customers may well decide in A's favour for that reason alone. Particularly as the equipment may be used in remote locations where an authorized service center is N/A.
the dealer can't force you into their service. this would be in violation of the moss-magnuson act.
In your part of the world yes I suppose.
My neighbor, who has a pump and injection repair business, has a MAC tools scanner. I know he uses it on a lot on highway trucks, CAT, Mack, Cummins. Not sure if what he has will work on the off highway stuff, I'll ask his next time I see him.
Tier 3 = ULS Here is the ULS Diesel Sticker required for Tier 3.
Weve got 4 605 Komatsu haul trucks with Tier 3 Cummins/Komatsu engines. Our mechanic can hook up his laptop to the KomTrak system and figure out what the problem is. We had a few issues with the EGR system this winter when we would let the trucks idle for a half hour in the morning to warm up, and at lunch when the drivers would stay in them to stay out of the weather. The new 6.7L Cummins in my pickup, that came with all the enviromentaly friendly crap (DPF,EGR, and such) hit a huge pot hole in the road about a year ago, and all that stuff fell off! I cant wait for the delete kits for the off road and the big on road iron to come out.
My neighbor hit that same pothole but come inspection time the computer would not send the right data to the state. Had to put it back on,get a sticker and never did take it off again. Once you have a bad read they can mess with you if they want. I keep mine registered where there is no emmisions requirement.
but if you don't have the computer programming you do what?:beatsme
many were using O2 sensors on street cars to trick emissions and they were outlawed and shut down so I doubt you will see kits for long if at all.
Please show me how this act applies: Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (P.L. 93-637) is a United States federal law (15 U.S.C. § 2301 et seq.). Enacted in 1975, it is the federal statute that governs warranties on consumer products. The Act was sponsored by Senator Warren G. Magnuson of Washington and Congressman John E. Moss of California, both Democrats. Contents [hide] 1 Purpose 2 Definitions used 3 Requirements 3.1 Full Warranty Requirements 4 Limitations 5 Remedies under the Act 6 See also 7 Sources 8 References 9 External links [edit] Purpose According to the Report of the House of Representatives which accompanied the law (House Report No. 93-1197, 93d Cong 2d Sess.) the Magnuson-Moss act was enacted by Congress in response to the widespread misuse by merchants of express warranties and disclaimers. The legislative history indicates that the purpose of the Act is to make warranties on consumer products more readily understood and enforceable and to provide the Federal Trade Commission with means to better protect consumers.[1] The statute is remedial in nature and is intended to protect consumers from deceptive warranty practices. Consumer products are not required to have warranties, but if one is given, it must comply with the Magnuson-Moss Act. [edit] Definitions used The Magnuson-Moss Act contains many definitions: A "consumer" is a buyer of consumer goods for personal use. A buyer of consumer products for resale is not a consumer. A "supplier" is any person engaged in the business of making a consumer product directly or indirectly available to consumers. A "warrantor" is any supplier or other person who gives or offers a written warranty or who has some obligation under an implied warranty. A "consumer product" is generally any tangible personal property for sale and that is normally used for personal, family, or household purposes. It is important to note that the determination whether a good is a consumer product requires a factual finding, on a case-by-case basis. Najran Co. for General Contracting and Trading v. Fleetwood Enterprises, Inc., 659 F. Supp. 1081 (S.D. Ga. 1986). A "written warranty" (also called an express warranty) is any written promise made in connection with the sale of a consumer product by a supplier to a consumer that relates to the material and/or workmanship and that affirms that the product is defect-free or will meet a certain standard of performance over a specified time. An "implied warranty" is defined in state law. The Magnuson-Moss Act simply provides limitations on disclaimers and provides a remedy for their violation. Designations: A "full warranty" is one that meets the federal minimum standards for a warranty. Such warranties must be "conspicuously designated" as full warranties. If each of the following five statements is true about your warranty's terms and conditions, it is a "full" warranty: You do not limit the duration of implied warranties. You provide warranty service to anyone who owns the product during the warranty period; that is, you do not limit coverage to first purchasers. You provide warranty service free of charge, including such costs as returning the product or removing and reinstalling the product when necessary. You provide, at the consumer's choice, either a replacement or a full refund if, after a reasonable number of tries, you are unable to repair the product. You do not require consumers to perform any duty as a precondition for receiving service, except notifying you that service is needed, unless you can demonstrate that the duty is reasonable. A "limited warranty" is one that does not meet the federal minimums. Such warranties must be "conspicuously designated" as limited warranties. A "multiple warranty",is part full and part limited. A "service contract" is different from a warranty because service contracts do not affirm the quality or workmanship of a consumer product. A service contract is a written instrument in which a supplier agrees to perform, over a fixed period of time or for a specified duration, services relating to the maintenance or repair, or both, of a consumer product. Agreements that meet the statutory definition of service contracts, but are sold and regulated under state law as contracts of insurance, do not come under the Act's provisions. [edit] Requirements The Act provides that any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty must disclose, fully and conspicuously, in simple and readily understood language, the terms and conditions of the warranty to the extent required by rules of the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC has enacted regulations governing the disclosure of written consumer product warranty terms and conditions on consumer products actually costing the consumer more than $15. The Rules can be found at 16 C.F.R. Part 700. Under the terms of the Act, ambiguous statements in a warranty are construed against the drafter of the warranty. Likewise, service contracts must fully, clearly, and conspicuously disclose their terms and conditions in simple and readily understood language. Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[2] This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions[3], and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives. [edit] Full Warranty Requirements Under a full warranty, in the case of a defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with the written warranty, the warrantor: must, as a minimum, remedy the consumer product within a reasonable time and without charge; may not impose any limitation on the duration of any implied warranty on the product; may not exclude or limit consequential damages for a breach of any written or implied warranty on the product, unless the exclusion or limitation conspicuously appears on the face of the warranty; and if the product, or a component part, contains a defect or malfunction, must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts. In addition, the warrantor may not impose any duty, other than notification, upon any consumer, as a condition of securing the repair of any consumer product that malfunctions, is defective, or does not conform to the written warranty. However, the warrantor may require consumers to return a defective item to its place of purchase for repair. [edit] Limitations The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does not invalidate or restrict any right or remedy of any consumer under any other federal law, nor does the Act supersede the Federal Trade Commission Act as it pertains to antitrust actions. The Act does not invalidate or restrict any right or remedy of any consumer under state law. The Act is not the dominant regulation of consumer product warranties, and while it prescribes certain disclosures and restricts certain limitations on warranties, it leaves other warranty law untouched.[4] Although the Act covers warranties on repair or replacement parts in consumer products, warranties on services for repairs are not covered. The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance. [edit] Remedies under the Act The Act is meant to provide consumers with access to reasonable and effective remedies where there is a breach of warranty on a consumer product. The Act provides for informal dispute-settlement procedures and for actions brought by the government and by private parties. The FTC has been mandated by Congress to promulgate rules to encourage the use of alternative dispute resolution, and full warranties may require mediation and/or arbitration as a first step toward settling disputes. In addition, the federal government has the authority to take injunctive action against a supplier or warrantor who fails to meet the requirements of the act. Finally, consumers may seek redress in the courts for alleged violations of the Magnuson-Moss Act. A consumer who has been injured by the noncompliance of a supplier may bring an action in state court if the amount in controversy is between $25 and $50,000, or a class action in state court if the number of class plaintiffs is less than 100. If the jurisdictional amount, or number of plaintiffs, exceed these limits, such an action may be brought in federal district court.[5] Moreover, one of the key aids to the effectiveness of the Act is that a prevailing plaintiff may recover reasonable costs of suit, including attorney fees.[6]
moss magnuson makes it illegal for a dealer to make it's parts or service a condition of warranty service. this also applies here because you can have an independent service provider work on your iron with out voiding your warranty. dealers use warranty fears to keep people out of small, independent shops or keep you from working on or even modifying your vehicles .
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, I am going to keep this in mind for future problems. Thanks for the info.