2008 Kia Sportage 1.6L. Interference engine. Book says replace timing belt each 60k miles or 4 years. Mine was replaced 10 years ago by previous owner at 30k and 4 years. I now have only 30k miles on belt (60k total on car) but at 10 years I am well over recommended time limit. I am well aware of possible damage by belt failure. My question is how conservative is the manufacturer on that 10 year limit? I was given price of $1240 for belt and water pump replacement. At 4 year intervals that works out to $310 per year, just for a shinkin' timing belt. (I will never buy another vehicle with a timing belt) What would you do?
If it lets loose, the engine is toast, and likely the car is worthless then. Can't buy much that runs and drives for $1240, so I'd spring for the timing belt. Its probably a $200 factory kit with timing belt and water pump, the rest is likely labor. So do it yourself.
You are absolutely correct that a belt failure will ruin the engine. My question is: how much leeway did the manufacturer leave? If I were to exhaustively test a part, and determine that it would most assuredly last a minimum of 100,000 miles, I would probably recommend replacing it at 50,000 miles. My Corolla went about 160,000 miles and twenty years on the original belt. And if I wanted to be really safe, maybe I would replace the belt every 2 years or 30,000 miles.
$1240 every 60k, what a hose job! Bet its not much more than a couple hour job considering shops are now charging out nearly $200/hr.
Ten years is a good run. It doesn’t owe you anything. Replace it or not. It’s on borrowed time. Just like the rest of us. Kia? Seriously? Lol. Funny you mention it. The current trend is going back to timing chains . What’s old is new again.
Have you considered doing the work yourself? I watched a few youtube videos and replaced the timing belt and water pump on my 2002 Honda a couple years ago. The most difficult part was making sure that the timing belt was properly lined up because one of the gears kept moving as I was putting the belt on. Then I found a video that addressed that issue and showed how to do it. Whole process took me several hours, but a lot of that time was spent double and triple checking myself. If you do consider doing it yourself, I would recommend watching as many videos as you can find and buying a repair manual too. I would guess you can get all the parts for under $200.
If you don't want to replace the timing belt, better start shopping for your replacement car now. If you get a replacement car, the timing belt will never break. If you depend on your killed in action, it will break at the worst possible time. Trade the car in on your next ride. Do not sell it to a friend.
I'm not sure I'd put a kia and a corolla in the same category reliability wise. I'd say at 10 years the rubber is breaking down more than its worn out, and you are on borrowed time. Millions of people go to vegas every year and roll the dice and spin the wheel, this is just a different form of gambling. If you get your thrills that way, who am I to judge? If you can't swing the $1240, and you're obviously not driving the car much (3,000 miles/year) maybe you don't need this car?
I'm going to go against the grain here and say they put a whole lot of leeway in the replacement interval. But that does not mean it will last absolutely forever. I would plan on doing it whenever it is very convenient.
Yeah, I'm probably going to replace it, mainly because the Fates would probably smite me for my arrogance. If I had a garage I might do it myself, but will take it to a shop. I think timing belts are made with kevlar; should last a long time. Look at how long v belts last. The price I quoted includes the water pump. Surprised they don't recommend the alternator while they're at it
I have three road vehicles because I live pretty remote (Alaska) and must have transportation to get to town. Recently my Kia was down for two months waiting for an ECU, and Corolla was down for fuel line repair, and I felt uncomfortable having to depend totally on my Tundra. I'm a "suspenders and a belt" kind of person.
Here's a hypothetical scenario to consider: Let's say statistics were available showing that, of people that went over 100,000 miles on the original timing belt, there was a failure in one in ten thousand. If this were a known fact, would you replace yours earlier? We'll probably never know.
They aren't really ripping you off on the included water pump. You have to take all the same stuff apart to do the water pump, its right there and its off when you do the belt. Cheap insurance. Otherwise sure as the world if you don't do the water pump while you are there, three months later it will start leaking. If your in the backside of beyond, I guess I would lean even more toward changing it, before it leaves you somewhere. But I'm not sure if I lived in the backside of beyond, that a kia would be my choice of vehicle, but the corolla and tundra probably trend toward more reliable.
All I know is I very seldom hear about timing belt failures any more. Materials have progressed very far. Industrial engines we use have a common Mitsubishi 2.4 liter and they tout their super extended wear timing belt. Probably because nobody makes a gear driven platform that is useful any more so they are forced to use a timing belt now. I would also take it to a mechanic to change. I hate working on cars and they may know tricks and things while in there that I do not know about.
They come up with the interval to account for the worst case scenario, which would be NYC pollution, Miami heat and salt, or Southwest heat. In WI or AK, as long as the belt doesn't wear from rust from humidity and I've never seen that, then you have relatively low ozone and temps, so I say run it if you feel lucky. Plenty of rusted out vehicles with good engines around if it comes to that, not much harder or more expensive than that belt change. The flip side of a replacement interval on a 2008, is the failure rate of stuff in general, lightbulbs or jumbo jets, is weighted sharply toward the first hours of use, then drops rapidly as the initial bugs are worked out, then very slowly rises as age and wear start causing failures. That is the strongest argument for don't fix it if it ain't broken. It's not just the low probability of it breaking, it's the possibility that it will fail soon after the change before the old one would have. I'll guess it's more than 1 in 10,000 fail by 10y/100,000m, but less than 1 in 1,000. You're already at 10y, but in a lower risk climate, use, and miles. The only two timing belts I've heard of breaking were a used honda that was just purchased and broke the next day (that I now suspect had sat), and a camry that had been sitting that I helped get running and made it five miles and the belt broke. There are plenty of non interference engines, at least there used to be, mostly bigger four cylinders.
I think they come up with a worst case scenario and multiply it by a healthy factor. If I knew that only 1 in 1,000 would fail in 100,000 miles I would gladly take those odds. I don't think the auto manufacturers or mechanics would want us to know that. If Toyota could make a reliable non-interference engine (1.4L) back in 1992 there's no excuse for all the interference (timing belt driven) engines. My Corolla has 215,000 miles on it and still runs great. All I've done is change oil and filter occasionally and plugs every 100,000 miles. Oh yeah, the timing belt did fail at 160,000 miles, but that was ~25 year old (at the time) technology.
Experienced mechanics may know more than we do, but technique is just as important. I've seen tire guys tighten the first wheel lug nut to full torque, and each one after that to full torque. I early learned the reason for sequential tightening and watching some of these young guys work makes me cringe. Also, if you bring in an older vehicle you're probably going to get the new guy to work on it. I remember when I was the new guy in an auto body shop.
I had a fairly new belt break on an '88 Toyota 3.slow V6, maybe 30k. I don't remember what brand I had used but it wasn't Toyota. Replaced it with a Toyota belt. Then it had a head gasket go a year later, so I sold it.
Ok. What is plan B if it breaks on a cold day half way between where you are going and home?
One rule of thumb-Heat and how many cycles has it been through. Because you live in a cooler climate not AZ belts have a tendency to wear better. But that doesn't mean that it hasn't started cracks at each cog. And for reference the Fiat 128 of years ago timing belts were to be changed every 17,000 miles and it was accurate, 19K and there went the intake valves. Just change it. * For what the vehicle is worth running-try and replace it at todays unrealistic used vehicle values. Everyone thinks their used SUV with a 130,000 plus is worth gold, it's shot that's why they want to get rid of it. It's a worn out piece of crap, used pickups 10 years old with 160,000 at 20K go **** up a rope. The trans is shot, engine shot, brakes shot, suspension shot, catalytic system shot yeah go price a catalytic converter, average life of those about 100K before start to fully plug. * You only have 60K on it, drive it till it drops or you can't get parts. Remember it isn't your job to keep autoworkers busy.
Amen on the used vehicles being offered-and you didn't mention worn out bearings and leaking seals. I'll being changing the belt; it's just a matter of when.
That's a given.
Audi's ever strong 1.9tdi pd engine had a recommended change of 4 years 60k miles or 5 years 80k miles depending on which dealership you spoke to. i bought a very rough bodywork A4 with a little under 110k miles on it was assured the belt had been done at 80k. yeah that belt last until about 112k and stripped 4or 5 teeth off, i was so lucky, nothing impacted anything and it just lost a load of power.
At 10 years, despite the low kms, it's the age that matters. And Kevlar and synthetic belt materials don't last a huge amount longer than natural rubber products. They all crack and perish, and the teeth peel out of the average belt - IF they don't have the cords woven to follow the tooth contour. Many belts today simply have the tooth profile cut out of a layer of synthetic rubber, and the cords only run in a straight line, following exactly the outer layers of the belt. Good timing belts have the cords following the tooth profile. I have found Gates (and surprisingly, Mitsubishi) belts are the longest-lasting belts. The annoying part of many timing belt designs is the ones where the belts are buried in the front of the engine, and which require a lot of dismantling to get at - and the ones that drive multiple ancillaries, not just the camshaft. Just think - you're getting off lightly - you could have one of those dreadful European machines such as a sh***y Audi with a V-type engine, where the timing chains are located at the rear - and they need to be replaced every 100K kms, as well - and you need to pull the engine out to replace them!!
This thread prompted me to check when the timing belt on my car was last changed. I was amazed to discover that it was as recent as 2 years ago, so it'll go for a while yet.....
The interesting thing is, many auto makers ditched the timing belt in favor of a timing chain, because of the bad press about needed to service them. All one needs to do is search the stories about timing chains, there are many of them that are very lucky to last 100k miles. The job to deal with a timing chain as well as parts costs is many times more than the old timing belts. What has fueled the problem is the influx of over head cam. I've seen some auto engines with a mass of many timing chains using an in the oil (wet) belt for the oil pump, yeah good idea.
As long as it makes it past warranty and even better to the 2nd owner, that's all they care about. 2nd owner no warranty belt/chain breaks and lunches the engine, oh well it was just a used car.
Thanks everyone for input. Some scary stuff here.
Timing belts are only scary when: 1) You let them go for 10 years, 2) You replace them with cheap junk, 3) You don't replace the idlers/tensioner/water pump with the belt.
The best thing a person can do is take care of what you have and try not to think about it. I bought a wrecked 2006 Jeep liberty that had alot of money spent on its transmission . I have been driving it about a year and it takes longer than i like to go into gear then some times it down shifts hard . I would like it to last till the end of this year then i will junk it . I dont have much into it so what ever happens it will be ok.