I dump out three loads of gravel and took my d5 and started spreading it out in front of shop. That looks a lot easier than it is. Looking for pointers on how much to actually grade? Half blade or 3/4 blade. What edge do you look at? For me I was trying to slope the gravel away from shop and it’s all jacked up. Going take my tractor over tomorrow and smooth it out with grader blade. Seems I don’t get the blade the same height as previous pass or to high. Gouge up the gravel when I don’t feel dozer going down. Any tips would be appreciated
I found a really good old thread on here. I should have looked before posting. I do think I’m going rig up a slope meter to help.
I'd like to say " just do this" but it really takes time in the seat. What you run your tracks on determines a whole lot of how it goes. Take your time getting that first place right and then carry from there.
So the main thing it seems is after you make your first pass you want to then make another pass with blade barely above the contour of first pass? Maybe only 3/4 blade on new gravel and other 1/4 blade following the contour of first pass
that is one way, like keeping a fresh edge when you are painting. Each circumstance is a little different but grading a larger area that works. That keeps at least the 1 track on stuff that you ( hopefully with a lot of practice ) just made nice.
Friends have two IH TD7E dozers. I have a Dresser TD7G. near identical except engine manufacturer. Kenny climbs aboard mine, grumbles that all the pins & bushings are too tight to grade well. Then he proceeds to spread 1" thick topsoil smooth as glass. Magic is practice, practice, practice. He works from a smooth surface on one side of the blade, carries his grade from that. His blade is always turned somewhat. A rough grade is a poor surface to work on top of. blade is constantly rising, or falling. Push some dirt 20 feet, raise the blade & back up. Best you can, keep the tracks sitting on a good surface. Can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. earth with roots, rocks, clumps of sod will not grade smooth. A smooth grade job needs processed earth. Screened, or crushed will spread better than native soil.
2nd gear is your friend. Never ever try doing anything in 1st gear. Use the decelerator to keep the machine under control. Back blading in the float position will help until you get enough experience that you can carry a decent grade. Change travel directions if your grade gets washbordy. By directions I mean go diagonally over the previous passes. Don't stab or yank on the blade lever. That starts a bad habit that will be very hard to overcome. For a beginner I would suggest going 1/2 blade wider on each pass. Especially if you are cutting finish grade. If you are after a specific depth in the gravel you need some stakes in the fill area with surveyor's ribbon marking the finish grade. A laser level to set the grade is a must have in my world. I wish I lived near you. I would be happy to spend an afternoon with you giving you advice on running your D5.
that's just how you roll, Tinkerer
I get it going take a lot of practice. This may not be the best project to start on. I’m trying to slope this gravel area down from my shop doors. I ended up taking my tractor with grader blade and running over it for an hour this morning and getting it a little better. This photo was right after my very first attempt with a dozer. My reason for asking is to try and developer good habits. This was done in first gear and as Tinkerer mentioned 2nd is my friend. So now I will try in second gear. Thanks for the help. Tinkerer what do you mean when you say a lazer level is a must have to set a grade.
Laser levels are accurate, affordable and best of all one person can set grade with one. Now that I see your project, a level isn't needed for what you are doing. Are you sub-grading for concrete ? I see you are about 5 inches below the building slab. You can never put anything on grade until it is high enough above finish grade that you have at least an inch or two of material to be able to cut it to grade. An experienced operator can fill to finish grade with no problem. Although compaction of the material would enter into that depending on the job requirements. There is a lot I don't know about running dozers but, that is mostly all I ever did for over thirty years. I ran a wide track D5 a time or two and it had an extra wide cutting edge on for some reason unknown to me. It was awesome ! I could see the end of that cutting edge while cutting grade with it it.
that's what I noticed on the high drive 5's too. It was easy to see either cutting corner.
Back blading in float position is also your friend. It would smooth your gravel out, take out the track marks and make you look like a pro. I have a track loader and back blade in float a lot because I have trouble pushing a nice grade. Part of it is because I have a hoe on the back most of the time. It greatly affects the balance. I also have a skid steer but it's a lot easier because I can see what the cutting edge is doing. Watching someone like Tinkerer run a dozer would probably have my jaw dragging on the ground. I am always amazed at what good operators can do and how easy they make it look.
This isn’t going to get concrete. This will get some asphalt millings (crumpled asphalt) put down around shop. This was sloped away from shop for water to run off. Does the float position still work good when sloping like this? It seemed to cut in on my high side
It will happen if you have the blade tilted so it is not level with the tracks. Pull up to the building and back-drag away from it. The blade should not be taking material from the up-slope side of the blade when you are going across the slope. That should be done when you are cutting grade. It is super important that you learn to know when the blade is level with the bottom of the tracks. Once you do that it will become a habit and you will be much better dozer operator. IMHO of course !
After you get the gravel roughly placed and back blade across the slope, back blade in straight lines in the direction of the slope away from the building, like Tinkerer mentioned. At the corner(s) of the building back blade at 45 deg's. to the building so you have a smooth transition from the front to the side of the building. You can do the corner(s) in stages with 45 deg's. in the middle (30, 45, 60 deg's. around the corner). You can actually put the material a little thicker at the top and back blading will taper it out nicely. You'll probably have to use a hand rake or something at the very top so you don't hit the concrete or the building with the dozer blade. That's where a skid steer is really nice. You can go right up to the concrete with the bucket. Rain and driving on it will pack the gravel and if you have a vehicle with wider tires, would also help to pack it. Your tractor could also help with this job. Turning the blade around backwards would act like back blading in float because the backwards blade wouldn't dig in. Could probably get closer to the building using the blade on the tractor too. Sometimes a bigger machine can be more awkward to do a job.
Looks like a nice shop, what size? Dozer is the most difficult machine to learn to operate, and can take years to get to the point that you think your a dozer operator. So don't fee bad. You need to work the ground for a good finish, on a high drive dozer your kinda too high to see the perspective. Get off on occasion and look for the highs and low spots and either cut or fill them, finishing is way different from moving lots of dirt, especially if you have to avoid things like man holes and utilities, otherwise known as obstacle courses.
another tip: when dealing with complex slopes and intersections of slopes, use what the pavers use. There is a set of tools called swedes. You can set up swedes on anything and take a shot and figure out a cut/fill and make it look good. It is just another tool in the box. Here is a thread and a couple of pictures of swedes. HeavyEquipmentForums
I always pretend I’m making a highway. I try to imagine myself driving a crane, Honda Civic even a bicycle. The bulldozer makes the road. You should be able to drive across whatever surface you are creating without having to slow down for bumps or dips. If I had to train someone new I would have them track back and forth over the material with the blade fully raised. You can feel all the bumps and dips in a surface through the machine into your body. All the other stuff that you need to know is great but you need to be able to feel the problems before you can see them. Hope that helps! Time is money and diesel ain’t cheap!
Some people just have an eye for seeing undulations on the ground, other's don't. I agree a dozer is probably the hardest to master, especially for finish grading. That's why I suggested maybe using his tractor and rear blade as well.
Welder Dave could you break down in a little more detail about the back blading at the angles? I’m sloping away from shop so is it a good idea to back blade up the incline. couple of questions? When someone says to grade does that mean the desired height? what is happening when you back blade (float) the blade? if I angle my blade and put in float does it float in the angle position. Tinker how do you learn to level blade to tracks? Practice, practice, practice im assuming it’s always best to move dirt down the slope than up?
Grade means to add or remove material to get to a desired height (grade). Back-blading will simply flatten and smooth irregularities in the material. Yes the blade will float no matter what the angle or lack of angle there is. Learning to get the blade level with the tracks comes with a lot of seat time. You will figure it out when you see how the blade is cutting when you begin the pass. Doesn't matter which direction you go on a slope to place dirt. The job situation will dictate the most efficient direction. An example would be -- where the excess dirt is or where a truck or scraper dumped. I noticed in your photo you are doing a lot of tuning. Go straight in what ever direction you want and avoid turning with the blade down. That alone will make it easier to carry a grade.
I just meant going around the corner of the shop and back blading from the top down. I'm guessing you have a 3pt. blade on your tractor. If so it is in float when you put it all the way down. Turning the blade backwards lets you drive forward without the blade digging in. You back up to the top of the slope and then put the blade down and drive down the slope. The angles I mentioned are when you back blade down the slope going around the 90 deg. corner. Do it in a few different steps instead of just one in the middle so you have a nice even slope transition from the front of the building around to the side. Hope I made sense.
Hear is what I uses for a slope meter Just find a good place on the blade or weld a little plate and uses your phone https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Pock...ocphy=9033616&hvtargid=pla-914193798608&psc=1
I do not claim to be in any way shape or form an operator, however for what it is worth here is my understanding of how things work. 1. When you are pushing material in a forward motion, your tracks run on the surface your blade leaves. Therefore the area between your blade and your idler, on a D5 probably a distance of one to two feet, is critical. 2. If the underside of your blade is higher than your tracks, material will be spilled out under your blade as you move forward, and your machine will rise as it runs on the spilled material. Eventually, the blade will empty itself. This is the desired outcome when making, for example, the fill area of a dam wall. 3. If your blade is lower than your tracks, material will be cut from the original surface, and your machine will go on a downward trajectory as the tracks run on the cut surface which the blade makes. If you want to extract material to move it elsewhere, say from the bottom of an excavation, then put your blade in "cut". 4. If your blade is level with your tracks, material will be neither cut nor spilled under your blade, and the machine will remain level moving forward. Any material which your blade carries will be "skidded" forward on top of and without altering the natural surface. This is the desired format for shifting maximum material with minimal effort. As the material skids over the natural surface, which if hard and smooth (it rarely is) it encounters minimal friction. This is also how to start to grade smoothly. 5. As an operator, you will be constantly shifting from "cut" to "skid" to "fill", as you move forward across the formation. 6. If you can find "skid", and keep your blade level with your tracks, then the other two (cut and fill) become somewhat more easy to recognise. How do you find "skid"? I do it this way. 7. Park your dozer on a flat level surface. Place the blade gently on the ground, making sure all the blade is on the ground. Hop out and check. Your blade is now level with your tracks. 8. Hop back into the drivers seat, position yourself in your "normal" operating position, and lock it into your memory, don't change. Keep your head still and look closely at each corner of your blade in turn. Find some easily identifiable feature on the back of the blade, for example a bolt or a weld, line it up with another identifiable feature along the side of the machine which does not move when you move the blade. 9. Lock the alignment of these two parts or marks into your memory, and you will have a reference point for getting your machine's tracks and blade both on the same level. To grade, once you have found "skid", make any increments either to cut or fill, in small amounts. 10. It is much easier to grade with some material on the blade. 11. Expect plenty of "whoop-de-doos" while learning. 12. Follow and understand the points made by the previous contributors, all are valid.
I've rarely had the luxury of leveling (grading) processed material. What I do is invariably rocks, stumps, sod, or brush. Holding the blade on the plane of the tracks does NOT work. You would certainly be off a bit, 1/4" above plane, the tractor rises until the material carried drops away. 1/4" below, it'll dig into a hole. You have to constantly vary the blade height to perfect the grade. Even then, there will be some undulation of the surface you create. Learning, find a place where perfection is less important. There is a fellow on you tube demonstrates all manner of machines in a large area of sand. Few of us get to work there. Then, when perfection matters, slow down. Angle the blade a bit so both tracks don't share the same humps & ditches you've unintentionally made. It is critical that you can see both corners of the blade. Mine has extensions of the cutting edge to provide that information. In the job you are doing, I would want the sub material at desired grade & the surface material spread from the tailgate of the truck in strips so I could see the sub material here & there. Once you have everything covered to uniform depth, start knocking the humps off in 2' wide swaths. Might even argue the dozer is not the best machine for this task. A track loader would be preferred.
Here is what I call my grader blade. Back blading away from building helped a lot with dozer. Then I used the grader blade to go back and run perpendicular to slope. Im semi retired and this building now has our life belongings in it. When we build our house this will be my shop. It’s a 30x50 with a 15’x50 open porch on the back. All the gravel comes from a pit I have about 200 yards from the shop. Right now wife and I are living in a cabin my dad and I built many years ago. The gravel area is my future house pad. I’m letting it settle and have plans to start construction next year on the home.
You call that whatever you want Ricky That's a thing of beauty. When we're out in the field we have to make do with what we have. Sometimes all I have is a loader with no tilt, or a dozer, or I'm doing it all with an excavator with a big bucket or maybe just the toothy bucket. What you've got is a nice combination of tools there. You can do finer and finer work with the dozer as you get better but you can always get on that box plane and make it really pretty.
before the bulldozer I would cut a 6’ pine l0” log and spread my gravel piles with excavator bucket. Just grab the log in between the bucket and thumb and spread out the gravel then drag it with tractor and grader blade. The area that excavator is sitting on was done this very way. I used the excavator and dumb truck a lot. I’m hoping to eventually be able to build house pads and take care of folks driveways. Which is why I purchased the dozer.
You have a land plane. They can do a great job of leveling but not the same principle as back blading. Very small adjustments to the top link to raise or lower the front cutting edge will make a big difference. Down too much and the front blade digs it and pulls too much material. Raise it up so the front blade is just skimming the surface and the rear blade will smooth it out. Experimenting will help get it just right. The long skids on the sides really help to keep from digging in too much but will leave grooves in softer or looser material. Usually it's not a big concern if everything is level. If your front end loader has float position would work fantastic for back blading. It can still do a great job if you don't have float and are careful. You can always scoop a bunch of material in the bucket to add weight to it if the empty bucket isn't giving the desired results back blading. Never use the float position going forward though. If it catches something or digs in the tractor will slam the ends of the lift cylinders potentially damaging them and you could thrown out of the seat.
Where do you install this at? Just curious if you have any photos?
2% slope doesn't puddle. You can get an inexpensive magnetic plumber's level and that line on those is 2%. If your machine isn't all beat up you can stick it right on the hood or out in front of you and when your tracks are 2% it'll show you.
I don't have a pitcher I will get one Monday or Tuesday I have a plate on my blade for a laser eye It is level with the blade
Nice work Ricky ! I would like to see that slope meter from Amazon on a blade. How can you see it ? I never had a level or slope meter on a dozer blade that I ran. When I worked alone, an eye level, a folding ruler and a can of paint was all I needed. The paint was used to mark on the ground how much to cut and or fill. I did use a laser level along with a sensor on each end of the blade. It was extremely accurate and made accurate grading stupid fast !
I used to tape a 3' carpenter's level on the top of my blade. Worked pretty good.
When I get a little more comfortable with the dozer I would like to know more about the sensors and leveler’s available.
YouTube has lot of videos about GPS controlled blades on various pieces of equipment. I ran dozers that had laser sensors on the blade. The mast had three lights on it. The center (green) one was grade. The up and down sensitivity was adjustable just like a a sensor on surveyors or grade checkers rod. It was slower than an expensive auto-grade set-up but quite fast compared checking grade and painting the cut or fill on the ground.
Zack, my son left college with a degree, but only one of his four years directed at surveying. That was 5 years ago. He, like most his age is a natural born computer nerd. He works for an engineering company that also employs several fully certified surveyors, & as many apprentices. Zack is willing & good at it, he gets all the new technology. He operates the drone & it's impressive what a drone can do for a surveyor. He was assigned to write plot plans for a D6 bulldozer. He describes it as impressive as to accuracy, & ability to save time. The alternative is many hours of surveying & staking.