Hi Everyone, By default I have been the shop foreman for over a year now. I am younger than many of the mechanics I've had to manage, and I am actively trying to keep people productive and happy while I run the shop and tackle all the most difficult repairs. My coworkers avoid all responsibility, bring personal problems in with them and lack focus...So I would guess they are completely average. I would really like to hear from some other members who have more experience in managing people. I promise not to create a bitch session, but I do have some specific issues that I could really use some help with. Thanks Tim
You got it, leave your personal problems at home, and leave your work problems at work. Treat others like you want to be treated, and treat the job like it's your money. What else you want to know?
OK, how about when they ask how to do something, I offer a suggestion, then (maybe to spite me) they go and do it "their way" which is probably wrong or inefficient. Is there a PC way to say " you have every right to do it anyway you like....but seriously, do it like this"
Basically you figure out who can do what and assign jobs accoundingly. You probably already have a good feel for the productive people, the sort of productive people and the scanks. You probably also have a feel for the important jobs, the lesser important jobs and the rotten make work jobs. Try to assign the dirty make work jobs to the scanks. Maybe they will get the hint and get better or get out. Rub the sort of productive people against the productive people and hope the experience, work habits and knowledge rubs off to the good side. If not, move the problem children to the scank level. Remember nothing ever works perfectly and don't take crap that happens at work personally even though you will anyway. Good Luck!
I will try that, thanks. I'll think about some other questions for you.
1) Lead by example. If anyone is going to listen to you, you have to be A1 squared away. Any less and you will be seen as a stuffed shirt. 2) Praise publicly your subordinates. Not super phony praise, or some big production, just a "well done" and always "thanks". 3) Critisize in private. No screaming, swearing. Just ask the man why the job wasn't done, done right, or took longer than usual. 4) Identify your workers, your up and comers, and your slugs. Assign them accordingly. The cream will rise to the top. Don't always assign jobs to the slugs that are crappy though, give them a chance to prove themselves. If they work well through the good jobs, and through bad ones not so well, keep an eye on them. Get in there with them, and refer to rule #1. Sometimes some guidance will motivate them, and give you some credibilty as a hands on problem solver. 5) Make it known to all green employees/apprentices you will teach them everything you know, to ask as many questions as they like, and to learn as much as they can. Be patient with those that heed you advice. Be short but fair with those who don't. This will weed out the non-hackers after awhile. The chaff seperates from the wheat very quickly. 6) Never take it personal.
i think #6 should be bumped up to #1. As a worker, if something goes wrong (whether it is something I can control or not), I know that "stuff" happens and sometimes it gets thick. you just have to remember that when people's patients get short, it is hard to do anything to make them happy. there are always going to be days like that...you just can't let it get to ya.
Those are all great, I should write them in my tool box. #3 is so important, I have to keep my own supervisor from doing that. He'll start bitching about some one , and then they walk in the door and he'll just stop talking! It is embarassingly unprofessional. I guess my problem, is that I have let it get to the point where I am handling all the comebacks and things that get missed on inspections. Sometimes a truck will come out of one bay where the mech has assured me it is ready, It runs for a week and then I pull it in my bay and go through the repairs that didn't take or stuff that was never noticed. And if I bring it to their attention, I am the Hardass and I hear " you can't find everything" or "*** happens" So usually I just fix it and don't say anything, and I know this is not a good habit.
It is up to you to set the standards. Covering for them or doing there work for them, will not help you or them. See tip 4
I know, I want to step away and let them be responsible for their own work. But then if a call comes in that a truck is down, I still go out there. Sadly the field is not flooded with motivated , skilled mechanics, we have to settle. But you guys are giving me good tips to help work with what I've got. Thanks
A little more wisdom. Sounds like you're making te best of a bad situation. Mention to the supervisor his habit of talking behind the mens back is neither productive or professional. If he has gripe, let it be known to the man involved. Otherwise it's hot air. As for the shops motivation,his backroom griping may be the cause of a give-a-crap attitude of the men. No one is going to bust their ass for a man that will run them into the ground behind their backs. Let the men know you think his way of doing things are wrong,but he's the boss. Respect the title, not the man. Had alot of that when I was on the water, and it's tough going. Be one of the guys also, just because you're in charge,and younger than most, they may see you as a threat, a brown-noser,or a snob. Let them see you interact with them on a personal level, listen to their complaints, and offer them advice. NEVER USE ANYTHING SAID IN CONFIDENCE TO BE USED AGAINST THEM. Even if you have to let the man go later down the road, your breech of trust will be spread like a brushfire. No one will trust you, subordinate or superior alike. As for having to recheck/redo other guys work a week later, bring him over to explain how you found the problem, what procedures you use doing an inspection, and what to make priority. I know mechanics can be picky about how they are viewed, and especially their handiness. What one man calls another an ace wrench, the next man calls him a back-alley hacker. Tough calls have to be decided sometimes between making it right and making money. Make sure you both know what the score is. And sometimes you have to shame some one into doing better. Just do it privately. "Hey brother, I know you know how to do this, take your time and do it right" Usually all it takes. Do the job like you have to sign your name on it. I always told my deckhands that, when it came time for maintenance, tying up a tow, or dropping barges, painting or wrenching imagine your name being on it. When it looks like crap, you do too. Good rule to pass onto an apprentice. Just because upper managment makes it policy, it doesn't make it right, it's just the rule. Make sure the men know that, and you think it's flawed too. Say the Serenity Prayer together...lol. Hang in there. Being a leader is ususally a thankless job.
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. I really don't want to waste the experience in this position. I know every person is different but if I could figure out a leadership style that works, I think that would be a great skill. It's funny how the position changes everything, If I was an equal I could shoot remarks and wisecrack, but now I have to be so careful not to offend. Example of a real conversation Him: "Where do we keep those Orings?" Me: (Trying so hard to be sincere) "In that box over there that says, Orings" Him: "Thanks Smart Ass" It will be an education, but I learned how to troubleshoot electrical, I can learn this.
I know exactly where you are coming from with this Mufflerbearing. I think that with this position your days are over as being one of the guys. If they think you are above them, then you will need to be above them and realize that every comment or remark you make will be analyzed and scrutinized and repeated, often! You are one step ahead in the process if the Boss has indeed instructed everyone that you are in charge. I worked at a place where I should have been the lead man, but was told no one was in charge, I could not tell anyone what to do. That was a fun situation:Banghead. I also took a service manager's job at a dealership on second shift one time, took about one hour to figure out that the best mechanic was mad because he did not get the job, and what do you think he had in store for me? After another hour I respectively told the Boss that I was not up to the job, thanked him for his time and apologized and left. Not that I make it a habit of quitting, I just refuse to be placed in a situation with that much stress and tension that is created mainly because people have too much time on their hands and sit around and talk too much. All of the advice given here is good advice, just from my perspective I have never really respected a Boss that is trying to be one of the guys, I respect the Boss that is business, pure business. Not looking for a friend, just someone who can lead me, push me to do the best job I can, and someone who stays away from shop politics. I think you need to get to the point of where when you call someone into the office to talk about something they missed on a truck, they should have the fear of God in them about going in the office. Not saying you need to have an attitude, but usually the less said will make them think more. Does any of this help you and do you understand what I am saying?
This is really incredible advice and I am already starting to implement it. It is helpful to hear other peoples work scenerios too. I guess I am lucky that my boss at least declared I was in charge. Here's a question: Imagine, I know my guy used the last part and didn't reorder a new one for stock. Which statement is less offensive? #1 Are you going to reorder that part? or #2 Please reorder that part when you get a chance. Maybe a bad example, but I find myself always asking alot of rhetorical questions, that I already know the answer to. This just seems softer than giving orders, but maybe the question route is more insulting
Mufflerbearing How about just saying Did the part come in yet ? Then he has to lie to you or admit it wasn't ordered. On the o-ring comment I would have pointed out the box and not said anything about o-rings. Just my two cents.
Mufflerbearing, it is all in the delivery. I could ask both questions the same way with the same tone and achieve the same result. I can't really tell which would be the best one to ask, it is all in the tone and delivery. Hang in there, I, for one, appreciate the dilemna you are in and commend you on trying to formulate the best way to do your job.
You know that part that amazes me? We're talking about ADULTS here. We're not talking about little kids! But we have to be careful with all we do or we'll cause some adult to have a hissy fit like a 6 yr old! The one thing I know is that all workers desire to be respected and appreciated. But, shouldn't they do the same to their foremans/managers?
Coming from someone that used to be in your shoes (about 20 years ago) I was promoted to Superintendent, and transferred to a new shop. These guys didnt know me, and I didnt know them, I just knew their shop was always low in production and I came from a high production branch. There was a lot of getting to know each other, but once they found out, that I knew what I was doing and what they should be doing, it worked out a lot better. As someone said, treat them (employees) with respect, as much as you can. You cant force anyone to do most anything, you may order/demand them to do something, but a bad employee can do a bunch of stuff to make you look bad and youll never prove that he did it All/Everyone has to do their job, from the helper to the Manager. If its the guys job to order parts, then he has to order parts. Tell him kindly (at first) its his job to order parts, follow up on this (thats your job) if he still doesnt order them, give him a stronger reminder. Older people, doesnt like to take orders from younger people (human nature) unless the younger person has proven their self. But as a person in charge, you must protect your job. There is no correct simple, proven solution, usually time will work things out Good Luck
Yeah, adults. that might be the part that has been so hard to understand. These are ex-cons and bikers, guys who look like they would kill me in a bar fight, and all I have to do is give any criticism and they sulk for a day. Bit of a setback today, I tried to bring up the idea of them taking on a little more responsibility and it ended with them just laughing and joking about the matter. If anything you guys have made me understand that this is just a tough position that takes some work to figure out. I'm sure people deal with problems like mine every day. Just kill this thread if it sounds like I'm whining.
Your statement is the perfect reason NOT to kill this thread. Like many things it will run its course. Myself I have gained a lot from it as I know you have also. Good luck, keep at it,........ you will survive..........
Tomorrow I will try to say something to the effect of " since no one is volunteering to take on some responsibilities, here is how they will be assigned". P.S. I hope I haven't mislead anyone into thinking I lead a huge team, There are only two guys I need to manage, one younger and one much older. I'm starting to think 3 is the perfect number to always have two against one. For a while it was me and another decent worker against one slacker, now it is reversed.
How did it go today?
The thought of it kept stressing me out over the weekend, by Monday morning I knew I would not be able to calmly and nicely explain to them what had to happen, so I just retreated and immersed myself in a job. Later my supervisor asked what was up, I said they were getting to me. So he says " don't let it get to you", then proceeds to list several situations where he had noticed poor work and slacking coming from them. I guess keeping the peace, is more important than quality work. One thing that really disappoints me is the younger guy, He has never worked in a shop, but he just finished school. I thought, I could show him reliable troubleshooting paths, and good repair techniques. But he is more dedicated to being buddies with the older guy, so he's just learning bad habits. I've seen enough to realize he doesn't have much work ethic anyway. I'm just glad I've worked in enough places to know this isn't normal. I know I'm not a Super Tech above everyone else out there. Hell, when I worked at a CASE dealer, I was the one trying to catch up, and learning something everyday from the guys around me. I just wonder if this place is so slack because it is family owned. There is a corporation in town with the exact same trucks, but they did huge layoffs, Can't a place be somewhere in the middle?
Well, I work for a family-owned business, we have 35 employees- I am the only mechanic/fleet manager. The thing I have noticed is the two boss's do not condone or tolerate anyone slacking off, it is their money and they want the most for their money, meaning if you don't give 100%, you are gone. Funny it is not like that there with your company. The good news is your supervisor realizes what you are up against. And I think finding someone right out of school with a good work ethic is rare. One option is just let it all go-quit worrying about it, if your supervisor jumps about their performance-fire them. And life is too short to worrying about this kind of crap on the weekends. Another option is to go after the older guy, get him off to the side, explain to him you need his help with the kid. If the older guy does not have the right attitude to be able to talk to him and get results then relax, go on, and when it gets tough, fire them. This is all tough talk and I realize that you may be in a situation where this should be the last straw, in terms of giving up and firing them, but "what we have here is, a failure to communicate.....some men, you just can't reach" Hang in there Mufflerbearing, you are bringing back a lot of memories of the trucking company I worked at and making me glad to be where I am now:drinkup
Pretty good advice Red Bank, and you did it with one of my favorite movies; Cool Hand Luke! Maybe Muffler Bearing should just use "the Captain's" line and take it from there.
Nice, I'll have to watch that again to catch the "captain". The owner of the company only makes brief visits to the shop. My supervisor could relay any info he wants up the chain. The older guy is my biggest problem, yesterday when I was off he went after a truck that kept making too much air. After replacing, governor, dessicant, unloader valve, relief valves and spending all day on it, he gave up, this morning as he was discussing changing a compressor or an airtank?! I took over, found the bad check valve and got it working. Then later he had a comeback on a little pick up he just turned loose.... now, he has comebacks all the time, but for some reason the super got really upset about this one. My super told me, "we are going to have a shop meeting" I thought "great" but then he disappeared for the day. So I am really curious to see if anything happens tomorrow. This is such a sad, pathetic little soap opera, makes me want to cut the heads off parking meters!
Yes, but then you will have to eat all of those eggs:drinkup. Maybe the supervisor needs to cool down before the meeting? The trucking company used to do the same thing, wait a couple of days then have a meeting about a problem, after everyone has calmed down and diffused. At least the older guy is digging his own grave.
Equipment manager I always tell my guys to treat the equipment or vehicle like they own it. I seem to get good results with this. Especially with the younger guys coming out of school. I also tell them that lives are in their hands, so make sure you do in depth inspections. The advice about matching the man to the job is priceless. Anyway hope all is going better.
Muffler Bearing well how is it going now ?was the meeting ever held??
Hi Muffler Bearing, Going home at night with a lump in your stomach is not acceptable. I would quit a job if I was not able to terminate a trouble maker and believe me any hand that gives a supervisor a hard time, be it shabby work, hands that won't follow instructions, horse play, unsafe practices, equipment abuse, a wise guy type or hard to control needs to be terminated. Green hands need all the help you and the old hands can give them. On 1 project it was reported to the union that I was hard to work for and had terminated to many skinners. The BA came to the project to talk about the complaint, I said really. If you quit sending me drunks and drug addicts and people that showup on time I will quit running your people off. I also said to the BA, [business agent] that I have a cat skinner with 1 eye and a blade operator with 1 arm, go ask them if I am hard to work for. Also remember that the more hands you have working for you the easier your job will be because you have more talent to choose from and you can put the problem child where he belongs. Working for a family owned business can also be tuff because how do you tell dad his kid is an idiot. Yes I quit that job.
Hey Guys, Kind of you to ask how things are. Well, for starters I read a book called "Stop Pissing Me Off" (What to do when your Co workers drive you crazy), it was very enlightening and made me realize I had more problems above me than below me. I approached to super and said some discipline actions needed to happen, I said the employee hand book starts with write ups so I want to do a write up. I made him a very specific simple write up and said that wouldn't work, so I said fine talk to the HR lady and get me a form or find out how to do it. .....nothing... then He said he was going to handle it in a shop meeting. I said " The important thing is to keep it specific, not vague" I explained how you can't just tell someone to work harder or get a better attitude because that is too vague, I said a specific example is everyone should ask how to use shop equipment if they are unsure how it works ( based on an incident) or people need to call Cat or Cummins when they are unsure of specs or procedures ( incident) I said keep it simple and focused.. So He made a big huff and went on a 30 min. ramble that went all over the place and ended by saying if you are unsure which parts to order, have tim do it, ....thanks if they are too dumb to order parts make me do it for them. So With no support from above I have sort of lost heart for this job, I continue to do my work and I give the younger guy stuff that will help him learn, but I'm content to just let the older guy occupy himself however he wants, I just keep him away from critical work. And since we are only moving about 20 yards of concrete this week, I have a feeling big changes are on the way for everyone. I guess that's why my toolbox has wheels. And I'd like to thank all of you guys again for the support and tips.
Don't get too bummed out about it bro. When it's all said and done and we're laying 6 ft under...the crap we put up with at work becomes a little irrelavent. You have a wife and a newborn, work is just your means to provide for them. The only thing that matters is you do your best, you can't worry about the attitudes of persons around you. I know this sounds crazy since your the shop forman and your kinda resposible for the other guys. But, they're your co-workers...not your kids.
Well if what you think is going to happen,well don't stress out over it, you haven't contributed to this situation,have you considered that you may be kept?? and the rest let off:worst case scenario you move your toolbox but look at how much you have matured and the experience acquired so, "pip pip old friend chin up and keep a stiff upper lip "and always remember no matter how low you feel there is at least one step lower, the final one is a dussey all of 6' with 2 yds of back fill. Speaking of books see if you can get "Who moved my cheese" and read it and of course the guru book "The seven habits of highly effective people" and let us know what you think of them. Also remember in the words of a wiser one than I A good mechanic isn't expensive, he's priceless!
I swear this forum is the coolest thing I've found on the net, as ironic as it may sound I consider you guys my link to reality. I'm definately not leaving this crew.
True words, my friend...true words. :yup Everyday you wake up still breathing oxygen is a good day.
You better not...now that your a Senior Member!