I had my 1st. ever flat track event on my oval track this weekend. It went great! The weather was perfect and everybody really liked the track. It was a last minute decision to come to my track and only 2 weeks notice to have the track ready, the grass parking area mowed (twice) and I cleaned up the grass and weeds infield with the grader. The promoter said they might get only 14 or 15 riders and if I need $30/rider. That's what I charge for practice. He asked if I could do it for $500/day, $1000 for the weekend and I said I could. Fast forward and there was 20-25 and maybe more riders on Sat. and at least 15 on Sun. Many riders rode 2 or 3 classes. When it came time to pay he said he paid $300 for some used plastic fence and I could have it for $200. Some was split and it wasn't all the same. Thinking I should be getting a little more money because of more riders on Sat. I said I guess I could take the fence. He brings me an envelope and I ask how much is in it and he says $800. I said I thought I might get a little more because of the higher turnout on Sat. I think it's only fair. Then he says you agreed to $500/day. (I agreed on $500/day based on only 14 or 15 riders/day not 25) I then explained that I only get about $1000/month in disability so I'd rather have the $200 than the fence. He goes and gets the $200 and gives it to me. Then he says "We won't be back"! Really because I won't buy the fence? I said if it's really a deal breaker I'll buy the fence. I don't really care how much money you claim you lose but I did a lot of work at the last minute so you could put on an event. He told other people the track cost $1500. To get an even better idea of what a prick he is, at the awards ceremony in front of everyone he asked for all the kids to come up and he gave them a 2 1/2" sticker to put on their bike that was given to him. One family has a quite tall 13 year old daughter and they asked if she could get a sticker and he said she rides with the adults so didn't give her a sticker. He also charged her $35 as an adult when it should have been $20 for a youth. She had no one else to race with. This family paid over $400 for the weekend and he couldn't give her a sticker that cost him nothing. Unfricken believable. When he said they won't come back, man did I have to refrain myself from telling him where to go! I wanted to tell him to pack up his fence and get the eff of my property! I've had MX events with low turnouts and they paid me extra so I at least got $500. Earlier this year even. The vintage club is pretty small and they pay $20/rider. They only had 16 riders show up which comes to $320 but they paid me $500 as kind of a good will gesture. I will have written contracts in the future with clauses like a construction project that unforseen obstacles like large boulders or stumps are extra. You would think most people would be fair but sadly there's too many shysters out there. I think the guy knew exactly what he was doing to get the track at the cheapest cost. I'm sure he knows I'm pi$$ed. A guy crashed and he blamed the track. The guy that crashed loved the track. Accidents happen in racing. What a 1st. class cheap b*****d!
As a child who grew up sliding sideways, I want to thank you for supporting the kids and the sport. Since you have the land and equipment why even deal with the promoter? Ever thought about selling an annual membership to the families for track use and/or camping? I bet lots would pay to have weekend access to the facilities.
Is this the same prick you have been dealing with for years now? I don't know how you keep doing it.
Some people are not even worth dealing with, and definitely not worth your time.
No this is my 1st. dealing with this guy. I know a big facility that has drag strip and 3/8 mile oval that wants $1500/day to host an event on the oval. My initial gut feeling was this guy was kind of a shyster but I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. I guess I need to be strictly the tight business man. Maybe I should have charged extra for the water truck and treat this guy the same way he treated me. Forget fair, I could have been greedy too. Unfortunately I try to treat people like I'd like to be treated. I did a lot of work to get the track ready and I'm sure paying for it now. My back was in so much pain it was hard to drive the hour home on Thu. and Fri. Thankfully a couple guys helped drive the water truck and I didn't have to do too much on the weekend. Another guy said a bunch of riders want to start their own club because they don't like this guy's dictatorship. I said I can get event insurance too if people are willing to help out to put events on. Maybe we start a new club and put a 5 or 6 race series on at the track. The track is also open for practice any time unless the car guys are out. Most other tracks aren't readily available for practice or they want a lot of money to rent the track. I can have season's passes for the oval so riders can go out anytime.
I treat people the way I want to be treated and if they don't return it I just get them out of my life Next time that guy calls just give a very high price and hire out the help, he's in for big money so you should too.
I'd do my own events if I could get help with lap scoring and sign in etc. I wouldn't be surprised if I don't here from him next year. Everything is going through Flat Track Canada, maybe I should approach them directly and voice my concerns. The guy is making money but making it seem like he isn't.
Everyone acts like they ain't making money and it's the funniest thing I hear as if you ain't making money you wouldn't be doing it. Reach out to the guys doing practice, some will know someone local that can do the easy things like the score board and such. Local track around here has a bunch of sponsors, you could get some money raised for improvements and help. Make sure what you physically do you would get $25-35hr for. It does sound like there is enough demand for races in your area. Love to see some pics of your spread.
I find the people who bitch the most about prices are the one's you shouldn't budge for at all, because they will complain no matter what and aren't worth the pain in the ***. Also remember no good deed goes unpunished. I doubt there is many tracks around I would try to advertise to have people even just come out on their own on a weekend. $500 for a day doesn't seem like much money if there's any amount of work involved.
I worked for 10 days straight getting the track, parking and infield ready with last minute notice. I'm a little better today but I was in so much pain yesterday I couldn't get comfortable and could barely walk. Maybe if it was mentioned at the riders meeting I was recovering from a stem cell transplant, the amount of work I did may have been more appreciated. It's my fault for being too trusting that this promoter would have given me extra compensation for a higher than expected turnout. He got the track for the lowest price I'd do it and stuck me to that despite having quite a few more riders. What irks me the most was saying they wouldn't be back because I preffered the $200 over the fence. Then blaming the track because an older (69) pro rider crashed. I talked to that rider, he never blamed the track. In fact he took my number and wants to come back. I'm positive the riders would come back and told their riding buddies to come too. I didn't hear any real complaints about the track except it was better on Sunday. They say a track has to get broken in. After Sun. there was a lot of rubber on the track which is what you want. Most of the little rocks have been picked off the track.
Unfortunately a persons's gut feeling is usually right. If they feel off, more than likely they're bad news. I also try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt but as they say good contracts make/keep good friends.
When you make up a contract some people will think you don't trust them too. I'm kicking myself for not asking what happens if you get a higher turnout. I think if I had, he wouldn't have had an excuse not to compensate me for them. 1 think he'd come off looking pretty greedy if he said he wouldn't pay extra. Maybe when he said they wouldn't come back, I should have said maybe I don't want you back.
Had a very recent experience getting ripped off with a handshake deal. I agree with Zewnten on good contracts make / keep good friends... It gets frustrating though but this is the world we live in.
Contracts are for disagreements, not agreements, and without one your asking to get screwed over or worse, sued. Think if that guy who wrecked got hurt and blamed you, even if it's completely not your fault it would be expensive.
I can not think of an event I have gone to that I haven't had to pay $10 - $25 at the door for entry. Motorcycle events/races, car events, trucks (mud bogs down here), etc... This door fee is before one has the privilege of paying to participate in the event. You may do better by offering 'open practice' one day or evening per month. If you get good turn out, the riders will be asking you to host a race event. So, get $25 or $30 for the practice per rider, but get $10 per person at the gate. Something has to pay for the bathroom supplies, garbage removal, road maintenance, etc... Most people understand this.
For a race the promoter or club gets their own insurance. I get insurance for practice at the track with no racing going on. This promoter charges every racer a $10 pit pass in addition to their entry fee's. It's a cash cow. In the past at MX races it was really frowned upon. $500 with 25 riders works out to only $20 per rider for a groomed and prepped track with the water truck used as necessary during the day. I'm supplying all the equipment and fuel too unlike some tracks that get it donated. It was great to have the 1st event. I just need to make sure I don't get taken advantage of in the future. Paying so much a rider is generally the fairest way to divide the money between the promoter and the track when the turnout is hard to predict. If they typically have 40 or so riders show up and want to pay a flat fee of say $1000/day I would be OK with that. $500 is the lowest I would do it but there better be under 20 riders. I think that's fair but apparently some people don't understand the meaning of fair. It would be great to start a new club and have our own race series at the track. It would cost less especially without having to pay for a ridiculous pit fee. You don't have event without the participants. I'm not sure if all the members of a family all pay the $10 fee or not. If they do he made a good chunk of extra money. Maybe I should contact Flat Track Canada and ask them if they want to grow the sport nationally or have a competing group start up because riders aren't too happy with the current promoter. Since I own the track I could award track passes or even season's passes to winners of events. Could hopefully get some local sponsorship from dealers and other businesses for prizes, etc. Hope to be talking with one of the guys who isn't happy with the current situation soon.
Insurance has a very detailed contract and the track owner is listed as an additional insured. Interesting is the guy putting on the race was giving me **** because I was inside the spectator fence... picking rocks off the track during an intermission. The bikes for the 1st race were still at staging and about to come on the track but not on the track yet. I was just coming off the track and had to walk about 50 feet. I'm sure as heck not going to basically sue myself if I get injured inside or outside the fence. It was totally stupid!
Problem is, you wouldn't be suing yourself. You would be suing the insurance company he paid for.
I like the idea of an “open practice” once or twice a week w a minor gate fee..10.-20.00. And u know what happens when you get a bunch of riders at a track.?? SOMEBODY IS GOING TO organize a quickie race.. And once the word gets out about an open practice w a race(winner takes all) your gonna have a “box full” of 10’s & 20’s.!! Hang in there buddy..
I could forget about ever putting on another event. I think if enough riders want to come back it will be hard to say no. I'll just make sure I'm covered for at least $30 per rider. If he won't agree to that, then no event through him.
Practice is $30 and there is no minimum number of riders required. That's not available at most tracks. The track(s) has the races and might have a couple of test and tune dates or you can rent the track for hundreds of dollars. I think starting a new club that is or isn't affiliated with Flat Track Canada would give riders a track to practice and have their own series of races. They could still go to other races if they chose to. The other promoter couldn't really deny them entry (for being in a different club) because he wouldn't have the numbers. Flat track isn't very big now. They are trying to bring it back to its glory but it's a very slow process. If I could get help with lap scoring and sign in, I'm sure I could put on less expensive events and even pay for extra help like flaggers in addition to lap scorers. It would be nice to have all computer scoring sheets and stuff but could still be done manually until the computer scoring was warranted. Transponders are the best way to go but cost quite a bit to get set up. Now that I have the grader and can make the track very flat relatively easily, I want to contact the go kart guys. They can run on the dirt and a 1/4 mile track. I'm also putting another turn through the infield to make a shorter track for kids they could also use if they wanted a shorter track. I think the track has multiple disciplines it could be used for.
The dirt track here has demos in the middle, monster trucks on the track (they pile up some dirt ramps, dirt bikes doing tricks. I'm sure there's a ton more you can do with the right promoter or right connections. I think the guy that does the monster trucks is from Minnesota.
Something for little kids is always good. That's why there will be a shorter track for them. It would be great if I could rent go karts but it would be too costly to get set up. Just having a club set up where everybody contributes would be nice. One of the car guys family used to run the Sangudo track for years that has since closed for car racing. It would be great if they could help with training people and helping set the track up for events.
Only 1 way to find out.. ask’m.. Just start the conversation with, “I was thinking about something the other day and would like to get your opinion on it.”.. And see where it goes.. Hoping for the best for ya..
You might fine someone else hays wants to start up a go cart track for young ones and they could buy the carts. There is a lot of money and desire when it comes to a track.
Having and running a track is a very thankless thing to do. People would rather complain than appreciate the work it takes.
You can get a wife to do that. I had one. Joe H