Hi guys, I think I should be bringing safety more to the forefront with my crew. Trouble is I don't know how. Like most of us, I grew up on a farm and safety was never preached. The general idea was don't get hurt. And for someone with some smarts, and a good sense of what can go wrong, it works. I have never had a serious accident over many many years running machinery. However, more and more I am realizing that people who didn't grow up in the seat simply don't have those sensibilities. They don't realize what can happen, what is likely to happen, and what might happen in the rare circumstance. And why would they, they don't have the 40 years of training. So I have to find a way to pass on my knowledge to them before they hurt themselves. How do I do that? I was thinking the morning toolbox talk might be a good idea, but I really don't know what to say. Any pointers from those who have done it?
Cat has a set of toolbox safety lessons geared more towards heavy equipment, obviously. It's a good place to start. https://safety.cat.com/cda/alias/TBTs
Like a lot of people I was sceptical when I first came across the morning toolbox talks, but speaking from the position of a mechanic who can be on a different site everyday I can see great value in them. The ones I have been to basically let everyone know who is working on the site and what they are doing. What is important is that everyone is present. If your talk is at 6.30 in the morning and the surveyors don't start until 8.00, tough. Tell them they have to be there at 6.30. Just run through what is going to be happening that day and what hazards people can expect, eg; "Bill and his crew will be working area A over there. It's next to the haul road so truck drivers be aware of Bill's guys in the area, watch for the traffic controllers and stick to the speed limit." "You surveyors are new on site. Your names are? "...." and "....". OK, You'll be surveying the eastern slope, right? This is Frank. Frank is on the D8 and will be working the pad to your right. We work on CB channel 26 OK. Frank. You know where to expect to see these guys?. Make sure you keep in touch with each other." " We've got these mechanics working on the crane in the corner. Anything we should know about? You're welding huh? OK I'll come over and we'll see if you need a permit to work" etc etc What is important in my opinion is to make it personal and keep it (reasonably) informal.
We have a monthly safety meeting at a local diner. The boss buys breakfast and has a safety guy come in and cover something different every month. Some of it is the same old stuff but he asks us alot of questions and interacts with us to keep our attention.
Most state's L&I have safety meeting "templates," much of what you see is worthless, but there are many nuggets that you can pick out to fit your needs. Many contractor associations have similar resources. BC has some fabulous safety videos for logging, and I bet they have them for construction also. What they preach is "old hat" to many, but to others it is useful. In fact, it does not hurt to hear the "old hat" repeated every so often. Cmark hit it correctly, talk about the day's activities; who what when and where. Since I have been getting close to retirement age, I seem to stress retiring with good health and all my body parts. Young people have little mechanical intuitive knowledge. Not the wrench knowledge, but the Issac Newton knowledge many of the young people have little understanding that a hammer can fall and hurt you or. heavy things in motion tend to stay in motion until the squash somebody. Watch how they drive. They are good with their thumbs on a smart phone, but that is about as far as their mechanical experience goes. The good news, they are teachable at least in my experience, although they seem to be rather literal and do not understand nuances of heavy work.
I have to say don't forget the simple things!!! sometimes the easy things people take for granite,(even us older mechanics need a reminder every so often) things you don't give a second thought to the young guys have never thought could/would ever happen its easy just look around the site (you will find someone doing something unsafe) don't just pick on the offender just bring it up on how he could have done it safer the next time. or ask the guys to think of something they have done in the last week that wasn't exactly the smartest/safest way something should have been done..
Had our first meet yesterday morning. The guys were receptive and took is seriously, which is good. the cat website toolbox talks section has lots of food for thought. Should give me what I need. Thanks for the tips.
Each of our crews or even partial crews do what we call a STA (safety task analysis) each morning. The crew discusses the task they are about to perform, decide how they are going to perform the task, talk about what the hazards are, and what they are going to do to mitigate them. We use a template format that covers PPE, rigging hoisting, tools, etc for them to use more as a prompt to keep them thinking about all the hazards. Everyone on the crew signs off on the STA. Monitoring it over the years we have discovered that it saves time, not costing time, as the crews have a work plan in place before they start and usually have the right tools in hand to do it before they start. This along with the safer work plan makes it a win win. This format has become popular on the bigger jobs with all the subcontractors also in recent years and is an owner requirement on most of the refinery, pipeline, and power/windmill projects we do around the nation.
this has been mention in part above but when I am tasked with training a new person on a piece of equipment I all stress that the machine does not give a sh*t about you. It will chew you up and spit you out and keep on going like nothing happened. One thing I don't like and have tried with little success to correct where I work is who does the training. Many times I have trained someone then a new guy is hired and the guy I trained just a couple months ago will be the one who is charged with training the new guy then in a few months another new guy is hired and trained by the last trained guy. I look at it like the old game we played when kids where you sat in a circle and one person was given a note after reading it he whispered it to the next person and each person was to whisper it in the next persons ear and when it got around the circle the last person said it out loud. The final message always was much different than the original. If each person omits or incorrectly explains a detail it can get to the point something critical will be missed. Not saying I have not missed a detail but every step in the process just compounds it. I always encourage new guys (and even not new guys) to ask questions if after running a machine they forgot something or if it does not make sense. And I try if at all possible to show them where it is in the operator manual so they know it's not just some old guy making wild guesses.
I find now a days that most young people <40 aren't interested in learning and know everything! I have always been under the assumption that everyone wants to learn! WRONG! As a kid on the farm I learned that if I cover what Will go wrong, Can go wrong , May go wrong I won't have any problems when I do ( the job ). There are 3 ways to learn. 1. By other peoples mistakes. This is best it doesn't hurt and costs less. It costs companies money to go over the accident but CAN make people aware of mistakes/ Problems that led to something going wrong in a relevant field. 2. By your mistakes. This involves pain and lots of paperwork. 3. Those that just don't learn!
Your insurance carrier should be able to help with this. May even get a discount being proactive.
Funny you say that... I have found that the older boys are harder to get safety across to. If I had a dollar for every time I had been told "I have been doing it this way for 20 years" I would be a rich man. Just because you have always done it that way doesn't mean its the safe way to do it. I make my guys do a job hazard assessment before beginning each job and reward the one with the most effort put in each month with a $50 gift card to the Keg.
Just wondering what qualifies as "beginning each job"? Not trying to be a smart *** but would this mean each time you are given a job like, replace starter on the parts truck, or replace injectors in the 769D haul truck. I can see this if the job is "Remove crusher from second floor of mill". Or split 988B frames to have center pin holes line bored. Or by "job" are you talking replace sewer line down the center of Pine Ave.?
We are a service company so every new work order we open requires a hazard assessment. Its just a way we can try and make our guys think about potential hazards before they happen. They are very common for mechanics in our neck of the woods, most of our customers even require us to have them to be on site.
You will need a hazard assessment to take a poop soon...
Guess what I have a hard time understanding is how minor a "job" requires a "hazard assessment". Just to be ridiculous, does a mechanic need to fill oout a form or have a meeting to discuss the hazards involved in changing the wiper blades on a pick-up truck?
Hey, after a beer and burrito dinner at the local Mexican restaurant that could be a life saver for the next guy in line. At least should do a confined space test before entering the port-a-potty!
haha could fall in...
I have worked with some guys that doing that job could very well result in an injury... I guess we would look pretty foolish if a guy did get hurt and the only reason was we thought the job was to minor to do a hazard assessment. Trust me I agree some jobs maybe shouldn't require one, but if you don't do one for all jobs how do you determine what jobs require one and what jobs don't. I find that the most dangerous people to work with are the ones that have that "it will never happen" attitude
Google Safety toolbox talks. You can get ideas from these prewritten ones. I have used them before and you have to pick the rite ones. Someone in a shop usually doesn't need to hear about ditch safety.
Guess things are very different where I work. 99% of the time I'm working by myself in the shop at the quarry doing maintenance and or repairs on everything from walk behind lawn mower to 773G Cat haul trucks. Say one of those haul trucks came in for routine service, oil and filter change. While doing that I check tire pressures and find one of the rear inner duels to have a leaking valve core. At your location would I then need to call John and have you come out and discuss the hazards involved in removing and replacing the core? Yes I do understand that there are several hazards, remove old core and it might fly out under pressure and hit me in the eye, airing up the tire after valve core is replaced could result in failure of lock ring and so on. Just seems like this would be covered by say monthly training in proper work practices for a mechanic.
The biggest problem is that the people that need the safety task analysis for a simple job would not understand it in the first place. Most days I think the only ones paying attention are the one that do work safe.
No they are not required to call me down to discuss just required to look at the job and document any hazards they can think of. It would be very difficult to cover all possible hazards in a meeting monthly. I see your point unfortunately the way the world is going this is becoming the norm, at least around here it is, once again we started this program due to a demand from customers. In one instance we were told we would not be asked back if we did not start filling out these forms. Its becoming more about liability these days.
Sounds about like the "Hot work Permit" system we have to use. Any time you need to use a torch or use a welder we are to fill out a paper saying we have checked things and also have to allow a 45 minute cool down period after work is done to watch for fires. Can be a real pain when you just want to heat up one 3/8 nut to break the rust loose. But then at another shop in the company we had a guy wash out a rear axle housing with the flammable type brake clean and then grab a torch to heat up the clevis pin on one of the slack adjusters. No major injuries or damage to the shop but it was close. Hope he does better at his next job!
Once, back when I was a mechanic with about 10 years of being fairly safe on the job, I cut myself badly putting wipers on my wife's car! Good point, but I still believe the core of the matter isn't about real safety as much as it is about avoiding liability, and making work for safety people.
Mitch504, You are right about the liability. If the company has no paperwork to prove they did train people to be aware of the dangers and were taking steps to insure things were planned and executed correctly they would be wiped out in court. We do live in a lawyer run society.
Tool box safety When I was a kid ( ?? 14 years old ) I learned that if I brought the tools that 1. I have to use IT is very hard to beat experience! 2. may use. 3. could use. That I will be able to do the job and not need waste the short time after school going back for something. Hell during the day I would be putting up barb wire ( dad never go gloves for me!) so you learn how to handle barb wire! I might spend 4 hours that night playing the piano, there is a contradiction on hand finger usage . I have been told years ago that we had to use big thick leather gloves to strip cable ( I can't feel the knife ) let alone the wires that I am not trying to damage, this was the level of thought at that time 10 years ago!!!!! There are 3 ways of learning 1. with somebody else's mistake. 2. With me making a mistake. 3. Or those that don't learn. You see I figure that one should have the necessary safety items that one needs to do a job. With me doing things for now up to 48 years I DO figure that I have the it understood! .
I read a article the other day that the oil patch companies was makin the service companies that do regular maintain on the equipment will soon have to have a onsite safety officer on EVERY jobsite, no matter how remote!!! I spoke with a buddy of mine last weekend that is a service tech for a company in north Dakota that confirmed this to be true starting sometime this year!! the sad thing he says they will be makin more money than he is & he is the guy out there getting sweaty, dirty, nasty!! he also said the safety officers wont be riding with the techs in the service trucks cause they cant leave their trucks run for heat/Ac (company policy for the service trucks) so they will be furnished their own trucks that don't fall under this rule!!
The company I work for does a lot of oil related work on pipelines and refineries, pumping stations, etc. In jobs we are currenty bidding the specs say we need 1 certified safety official for each 25 workers and at least one safety official on site even if there is only one worker. We are working in MN, WI, and ND currently and what you say is true in all three states. This was pointed out on another post a few weeks ago.
Maybe you could start by saying all those things. Then maybe follow up with some of the things mentioned in this thread. :my2c Look blokes I'm just under 20. I work with people younger than me, the same age and everything above. It's not a case of "the <40s don't give a rat's" or the "older guys just do it the way they've always done it". In no world is it ever that simple, or black and white. This sort of thinking annoys me greatly. Some people don't think of safety, regardless of their age. Some can learn and some can't. I'll be the first to admit that I've made more than a few mistakes. I made a thread about some of them. You can read it here All you can do is learn. You stuff up- you learn from it. Your buddy stuffs up- learn from it. If someone points something out to you- learn from it. It's a bit silly to narrow out one group or another. Obviously we young'ns (boys in particular :tong) need to have our testosterone kept in check occasionally and be told woooo horsey hold up a tick. By the same flip of the coin sometimes the more experienced folks need to be told hey, there's a safer way to do this. Just be safe out there folks and try to keep an open mind. Rant over.
Thanks for information guys!!!
Here is another list of safety topics which we find helpful. http://www.mhca.mb.ca/worksafely/safety-informer/