Let me start by saying I’ve never owned a 1-ton truck other than an old ‘69 F350 thats only used around the farm, hasn’t been on the street in years. For the sake of discussion lets also include the F450-550 sized trucks as a heavier duty version of a 1-ton. For many years now my trucks for both the farm and my construction business have consisted of a 3/4 ton 4wd pickup and a class 6-7 dump truck. Over the years the makes and models have changed, but always had at least one of each. The pickup was for daily driving, pulling small equipment and trailers (usually under 10k), making parts and supply runs etc. Any real hauling or towing was done with the larger medium duty trucks. As I look around I seem to be in a minority now. Almost every other contractor is running either a 1-ton or 450-550 size truck in what ever flavor you want, whether it be a flat bed, mason dump, service body or even a pickup bed. Do they know something I don’t? Is the cost per mile and total cost of ownership that much less with these trucks? I always figured (based on my rough accounting in my head) that although everything costs more on the big trucks, you actually come out ahead since the service life of everything is greater. It seems to me like the guys running 1-tons are on the verge of being overloaded daily, either towing or hauling, with the 450-550s being a little better but not much. I haven’t really sat down and pushed the pencil on the total cost of ownership of my medium duties but I know many or you have. I do know that my commercial insurance is about the same compared to my pickup, purchase price honestly isn’t that much different, especially used, and my F700 gets a combined hauling/empty mileage of 9.5mpg. Parts are a wash, many are the same price as for the lighter trucks, or maybe higher but last longer. $400-500ea for good steer tires hurts but the $235 retreads on the back serve me well. I will admit tags/registration are a lot higher on the bigger trucks. Are the class 6-7 trucks becoming less popular due to the increased towing capacity (at least on paper) of the smaller trucks? Are the smaller trucks that much cheaper to own and maintain? Peoples aversion to getting a CDL? What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?
Good points to ponder. When I was tracking fleet costs, I was surprised how expensive it was for us to operate F-550’s. Especially, the diesel powered ones. The cost per mile being similarly close to single axle KW T300’s in vocational use. I don’t have access to the spreadsheets anymore, so I don’t have the facts in front of me. F-550’s ate suspension parts, 19.5” tires were more expensive to run that 22.5”, Powerstroke’s eat your lunch when they break, lifting cabs to work on the engine, finding people that can work on Ford diesels, and the downtime was much greater with the F-550’s because of excessive wait times for parts and service. Damn fancy headlight assemblies are $800 with a core charge. Today, my cost to operate a F-350 is $1.85 per mile. I just calculated it. It went up because I had to raise the insurance limits for a particular customer requirement to enter their terminals.
Coaldust, thanks for the data points. A lot of what you said about the F550s is exactly what I had assumed. My father has a newer (2017-2018 maybe?) F450 cab chassis with a 10’ flatbed that he uses for pulling a cattle trailer, hauling tractors, hay etc for his farming operation. Over the years he has graduated up from a 3/4 ton SRW, to 1-ton dually to his current F450. The loads he tows have remained the same and he just has a truck now with a little more durability and margin of safety when towing. He is happy with it, however he also has a 4700 IH for heavy work. I realize there is a place for all of these models, I just don’t understand why certain trends have shifted the way they have. Maybe I’m just old fashioned and am not keeping up with the times.
We stopped using diesel light trucks. Too expensive. Ford were the only ones that could be registered heavy enough. Mostly V10, a few issues. The new 650 has the new push rod V8 seems to work good. Big problem is putting teenagers on them and not explaining how the tow haul button works. A lot of time they can be expensive to run, but you can't always get the heavier trucks where you can get them. A necessary evil I think you call it.
If I were buying a new light truck today it would not be a diesel. They’ve lost everything that made diesels great IMO. Simplicity=gone, fuel economy=gone, durability=gone, ease of maintenance=gone. They do have a lot of power, I’ll give them that. The end of the 7.3 Powerstroke was the end of my interest in new diesel pickups. I’ve actually gone backwards in that department, had a ‘99 F-250 7.3/6-spd that was a great truck, unfortunately rust and electrical gremlins killed it. Windshield leaked onto the body computer which caused all sorts of weird problems. Body computer was obsolete from Ford and there were many different ones depending on options etc making finding a used one difficult. Sold that truck and bought a ‘93 F250, 7.3idi non turbo, 5-speed. I love it, all 185hp worth, lol.
My brothers, last year of this body style with a whopping 69,000 miles. All highway miles.
A lot of contractors I know are not truck drivers, never had a CDL, and never drove anything bigger than a pickup. They just think small, and when they want to go big, they get an overblown pickup (F550, ect). I think a lot of it is just a familiarity factor. Guys are used to pickups, and the OEMs are only to happy to sell them. That's how you get 6.7L engines pushing power outputs comparable to what the Cummins M11's used to be, pushing 75,000lbs of mixer down the road. Because it is essential that a guy do 0-60 in 8 seconds with a skid steer on the trailer.
When I bought my first service truck I shopped pretty hard and came to the conclusion that it was cheaper to buy a f750 than a f550. 19.5 tires cost as much as 22.5. If you have engine trouble on a smaller truck the cab has to come off. A class 6-7 is built more like a class 8 than a pickup truck which means you have heavier duty parts. Heavier suspension, more payload, etc. creature comforts is the only category where the 550 wins at least in my application.
Love it. My first truck was an ‘88 F250 4x4 ex cab long bed, 460 5spd. Had a 2.5” lift and 33’s, just enough to give it a good stance. In hindsight probably not the best vehicle for a high school kid, had lots of testosterone fueled fun in that thing Haha. Gas was $0.89 a gallon then, miles of road trips, off roading, drag racing, burnouts, taking girls down to the river, oh the memories...Still have the ol truck, hope to restore it one day.
That sounds very familiar--like something Truck Shop would say.
Yes I think what you said has a lot to do with it now that I think about it. I grew up on the farm and was driving big trucks and equipment from an early age. In reality though my F700 with a 10’ box and 153” wheelbase is no bigger than a dually pickup, a lot of it is in your head I guess. I think nothing of parking the dump truck in a spot at the grocery store to pick up something on the way home. Heck, this morning took it to town to get a load of corral pannels, backed it right in a regular sized parking spot at McDonalds for breakfast.
Idk, the new medium duties are just as nice as the pickups inside. And you can get an air ride seat...
I wonder if the companies ever do training on their trucks for the drivers or just hand them the keys? I had a 4 Ton Hino dump truck that was simple, economical ( 15 mpg) and reliable. Only reason I didn't keep it was because it only had a 6 speed transmission and 1st and reverse were too high for use off road. It had hyd. brakes and didn't require a special license. It could turn sharper than a pick up truck. Not a big powerhouse but always got the job done.
My f750 had a air ride seat with a hand pump. It would only pump up about 2” which meant when you hit a “how’s ya motha” your spine got driven into your cerebral cortex making you see double. No thanks. I’ll leave it on the floor and bounce around the cab like a pinball.
LOL. First work truck rig I drove at 16 years old was an '88 (new at the time) F350 with 351 Windsor and a 5sp with a 12' flatbed dump pulling an 843 Bobcat on a rickety assed trailer. Truck was a complete gutless wonder. Currently have a '01 250 7.3, '13 350 6.7, RAM 3500 6.7 and '22 350 6.7. The '01 7.3 is light years ahead of that old 351 Windsor and the 6.7's Cummins or Ford is like comparing an F16 to a biplane. Love the modern pickup diesel engines and looking forward to the new Ford 6.7 HO. We hire our dump truck work out as well as lowboy. Do have a '95 L9000 dump we use to move equipment short distances and onsite. I've had dump trucks before but we earn our money moving dirt and laying pipe.
Your asking the right questions one big underlying factor is every contractor new wants a brand new 1 ton it's a status in there mind so to afford a new 1 ton they have to use it for personal use. Now as far as fleet setup I see most outfits doing 550 strictly to avoid cdls and then they also will set up the same thing for cdl use cause the owner or fleet manager has no fricken clue what 35000 lbs behind a 550 stops like and has no earthly idea how to run vehicles without warranty What your seeing a lot of is just bad buissness I will probably get disagreed with but the biggest thing I haul with a 1 ton is 35 mini ex. I set a 450 up for the vac trailer and hauling the mini ex otherwise it's done the dump truck or transport The thing to know is I keep a w900 kenworth on the road and can double haul backhoes for cheaper than I can pay payments on a 550 to move one backhoe at a time I have a few friends that run 450s to haul there backhoes every 4 years they are truck shopping cause after about 120000 miles they start to have issues they simply are not built for the duty cycle required to move 40000 lbs day in and day out
Depends on the size of the company. For someone who only wants 1 truck the 1 ton makes the most sense because it can be parked in residential areas and used for personal reasons, and in most places if combined weight is under 26,000lbs no yearly inspections or special license. I had a Ram 5500 and went back to a 3500 as it was so much harder on fuel and only used the extra capacity a few times a year. For bigger companies it's probably just doing what everyone else does, regardless if it makes sense.
Most guys I know just toss them the keys. I’ve got an F600 that I use for smaller jobs, it doesn’t require a CDL (if your not towing), has hyd brakes and turns super sharp. If you ignore the two speed rear axle it just like driving a pickup. But, it also can legally haul 6 tons and has a GCWR higher than even the newest F450/550s.
My boss, the older owner of the company drives anything with wheels. He even had a Mazda van for a while. Not real practical for the places he goes. The nephews run around in the fully loaded super dutys nicer than a lot of cars. One of then had a Ram duely with 35" BFGs all around
They had to put steps on our 650 for all us short legged guys.
I’ve wondered about that, thinking about adding air ride seat to my F700 but there isn’t a ton of clearance from floor to ceiling. My old ‘75 C60 has an excellent suspension seat (just spring, no air) but works great and never bottoms out. My uncle installed it back in the 80s, I believe he said it came out of an old 60s vintage road tractor, has a very low back and a nice vinyl tan basket weave pattern lol.
I think the popularity of the smaller trucks is due to the scarcity of CDL drivers. I'm the only one in my shop with a CDL so our biggest truck is an F600 which is a beefed up F550 and has a GVWR of 22,000. I have a hard enough time filling positions without requiring a CDL so my equipment reflects that. We do jobs where it would be nice to move material more efficiently but I have to make do with what we have.
What kind of mileage do you get out of tires, brakes, etc on those fords? The wear items are where I see dollar signs adding up when you work them hard. I hear you on the dump trucks though. I have two single axles mainly for towing, site work and getting materials in sites the big trucks can’t get. The guys around here with tandems/tri-axles haul so cheap it seems like a race to the bottom to me.
The thing about the CDLs is a valid point, but most class 6 trucks are hydraulic brakes and under 26k, no CDL needed unless you’re towing. Put almost any tandem trailer behind an F450 and then its the same deal. I maybe wrong, but IMO there it a huge step up in work capacity, durability and longevity when you move from a class 5 to class 6 truck.
We only move our CTLs (279D's), mini (305E) and other smaller support equipment like trench rollers and such, everything heavier is hired out. Get 20-30K miles out of a set of tires depending on brand and 40-50K out of a set of brakes. The tires are the expensive part in the equation. Trucks also carry 90-110 gallon fuel tanks along with probably another 1K lbs of tools and such on daily basis without pulling a trailer. Haven't ran my new truck over the scales but my '18 350 scaled right at 10K with just me and all the stuff carried on a daily basis. Figure the new truck is around the same weight although slightly less due to being a SWB instead of LWB. For us the diesels just perform and hold up better than the gas burners pickups in the same application. We've had no real issues with the Ford 6.7's and the RAM 6.7 regardless of the horror stories told on the net.
If you put the mileage on them the diesels probably do pencil out. My father has had good luck with his 6.7 Powerstroke, also had good luck with the 6.7 Cummins in a previous Dodge 3500 cab chassis he owned, problem was the rest of the truck. U-joints, tie-rod ends, clutches, etc the Dodge just didn’t hold up. It was a nice driving truck though with power to spare. What kind of beds do you run? Pickup, flatbed, service body? I’ve settled on just a standard 8’ pickup with standard tool box, keep it cheap and simple. Then again I’m a one man show and usually try to only have equipment on one jobsite at a time, so kind of apples to oranges. At times I do wish for a service body with air compressor etc
There is a job service in the oilfield that's pipe testing, trucks is a f450-550 or brand equivalent and runs a 24k tag so no CDL. There is a company that runs a small Peterbilt with the same tag. I asked and he said it's about the same cost to buy, bigger trucks, sell for more when your done with it. I've also talked to a few people about the gas v diesel in pickups, and really the biggest thing is resale on a gas pickup is nothing compared to the diesel, might change with the 7.3 gas idk.
A diesel has to resell for a lot more because it originally cost a lot more. I think like was mentioned the rest of the truck doesn't hold up. It may not be worth paying a premium for a used diesel when you can get a used gas for a lot less money. Unless you're pulling a trailer often a diesel is more expensive to run. The price of diesel fuel and the reduced mileage of the newer engines has really hurt the advantage of having a diesel as a daily driver.
We ran a 2500 1999 Dodge 24v for our first 7 years of mining/mineral exploration, then a 2005 3500 Dodge (still use for tidy tanks/welder etc) but no more hauling (other than 5000lb rv)…..basically the 1 ton is used now as a support vehicle only. In our operation;200 km round trip on steep/switchbacked logging/mining trails we found transmissions, u-joints, rear diff’s and brakes were short lived. Also tires were lasting only 40,000-50,000km under these conditions. The last set of tires for the pickup were 380$/tire. Heavy lug 22.5 drives weren’t much more at that time; and last much longer. We are now hauling a 4-5 ton mini-excavator, skid steer, and 25 yard/hour test plant on either a 1990 Ford CF-7000, or with a 1999 single axle International 9200 (C-12, 13 speed 4.33 ratio) & 14k deckover. Both have air brakes, jakes on the 9200. Now rarely require the service brakes (the Ford has no exhaust brake, however will hold back sufficiently in low range 2nd or 1st gear if needed.) Much safer setup for our operation. Our repair costs have dropped substantially in the last 6 years by utilizing heavier duty trucks; no measurable brake shoe wear has been noted in the annual inspections over the last several years. Tires are lasting much longer. One significant draw back is no 4x4….if muddy/snowy then chains. Here in BC we are insured for “artisan” use since we are not for hire: we only haul our own personal equipment for our business. This keeps the insurance cost quite reasonable. Fuel consumption is somewhat more than the pickup when empty but when loaded (13,000-14000 lbs) fuel consumption is comparable. Annual inspections here are $225.
I like being the one buying them at that "no resale value" price then run the dickens out of them.
We run the sanders on the light trucks for that reason. . Truck drivers are all home in winter, and it is easier to get someone without a truck license to head out at 4 in the morning to sand parking lots. Mostly it's the guys in the shop.
I can imagine that rugged off road use would make the difference between the light and medium duty trucks even more apparent. Am I reading that right that you joined in 2014 but these are your first posts? Regardless it looks like you have an interesting operation, I’d love to see and hear more about it, maybe start a thread with some pics.
Knock on wood we haven't had any issues with the 3500 RAM. It's a '19 with 70 or 80K on the clock. Planning on trading it in this year for another one. For bodies the plan is to have all three - flat, service and pickup. The 3500 is a dually with a flatbed and built out tool boxes. '13 350 is a CC LWB 4x4 that the plan is to put a service body on with compressor etc., '01 250 is a LWB and my truck is a SWB CC. As far as diesel vs gas re-sale value it can almost be double the older the truck gets in certain parts of the country. A couple of months ago sold a 2014 F250 CC LWB 4x4 6.2 gasser (limp wristed gutless truck) with right at 200K on the clock for $14K. On the flip side I was offered $30K for the '13 F350 CC LWB 4x4 6.7 with with 180K on the clock. Both trucks XL's with power windows and doors. Of course I kept the 6.7 350.
Yes, our use is probably not typical. I suspect the newer pickups with stronger transmissions and exhaust brakes would stand up better. I do find the weight of the tow/hauling unit makes a big difference in safety descending the steeper grades. These are my first postings! I will post a couple of pics in the new members page.
The tow/haul combined with the exhaust brake on my '22 350 is a game changer. We don't pull heavy just skids, minis and occasionally Ill pull our rolling billboard AKA the wife's 32' travel trailer. The modern tow/haul and exhaust brakes in the HD pickups act very similar to retarders and engine brakes in the bigger trucks.
Exhaust brake has been standard on all Ford diesels since 2003 with automatic transmission.
IIRC 2015 was the first year Ford offered a manual on/off button for the exhaust brake with the new and improved turbo for that year. The 2018 350 was my first truck with the manual exhaust brake and it was a nice difference towing compared to the 2013 350 without manual operation. The '22 with 10sp is a totally different animal.
My 2015 F350 diesel has the exhaust brake and manual shift button on the trans. You can almost stop it on the ex brake .I think they are great with the hills we have here. But as you can see by the year of my truck i think the cost is getting out of hand in relation to what we earn now.I dont think ill buy any more new ones.My F250 4X4 was 8400.00$ back in 1977 but i seemed to earn enough to buy some land , build a house ,drive a new truck and have a life.I keep a 2003 F350 and a2006F350 that need a bit of work but will keep me going to the end if i have to go that way.
Push tow/haul, exhaust brake on, torque converter locked while slowing down, extended shift points. Factory in 2003+ with the 6.0 diesel, 6.4, 6.7. They just separated the buttons then in 15 so you could turn it on without the other tow/haul functions. The technology that allows this is the vgt turbo that came with the 6.0, and the other engines still have a vgt function. I don't really know too much about ford's offerings 17+.
In 2015 Ford upgraded the turbo which increased the performance of the exhaust brake in addition to the manual button. https://www.drivingline.com/articles/history-of-the-ford-super-duty-part-5/ Night and day difference in the performance from the 2013 to the 2018 as far as towing/stopping goes.
Sure, but what I've said is still true, there is a factory exhaust brake from 2003 on.
Never said it wasn't.
You could get a kit on a 7.3 to make the EBPV function as an exhaust brake. And/or choose a lower gear and go down the hill slower. I'm sure option B saves 5 figures out of the pocketbook.
Been CDL licensed since changed from State Chauffeurs style, My F250 SRW had same payload as Ford F350 SRW in 99, only difference was Cab lights and Body Tag. Used it as such and beat it to death. Should have been a Class 7 with Air Brakes for what I did to it but beside the point. At one time considered getting back in Commercial Truck mechanic biz, spec'd up a class 7 with Riecher's Tool body and a small crane they supplied. Had welder had tooling just needed base inventory where loaded and with GVWR required a Class B, dragging any form of trailer was looking to a class A anyway. Longevity, fuel economy, strength of truck would not ever have anything less, and yet did not ever get back in.
I wish i could figure this out. I started using a 3/4 pickup and goose neck trailer. I know i needed to haul alot more per trip but how big did i need to go. It wasnt what i wanted but has done a good job for me i fixed up a 1963 f600 . I always wanted a 1 ton with a dump bed but now i know it would be a wast of time just couldnt haul enough per trip mostly because of balky loads not weight. I am hauling scrap from a place 40 miles from home but under 30 to the scrap yard with my f600. I was going to haul a pickup up there to drive back home at night but my brother lives about 5 miles from the scrap yard so at the end of the day i get truck and trailer loaded drop truck at his house and borrow a pickup to get home. I hate having so several trucks and pickups to take care of . Some days the f600 is to big and others its to small. This ??? is not easy to answer. This place i am cleaning up is in a bad place bad roads no good way to get there i am constantly asking my self how to get the most out of every trip and pickup and trailer or f600 and trailer?
Had a F450, was titled as 1.5 ton truck back when they just called them F Superduty’s. Nicked named it “Titty bouncer” I don’t even have any though they bounced them and my nuts. It would move anything I tossed at it, stopping it was different story. Also had a F350 around same generation same engines, but was like night and day in handling loads, comfort and stopping. Never drove it enough to wear parts out like most here, never left unless going to move something or commuter car was broke down. Overall rather a class 6 or larger truck, never going back they are just as cheap if you turn your own wrenches. I can get my tires for $300 or less a for this rig, won’t get stuck easily, insurance is cheap, about 7 mpg though pay to play and is perfect for my situation. A pickup can never move the loads this thing can through the diverse terrain this can go through without sacrificing longevity.
In my previous, meant to say cost difference was not enough to stay small light truck, heavier class more economical in long view
How is your F600 set up? Flat bed, dump, how long of body? Set it up to tow and you could more than double your capacity, but you’d be in CDL territory (unless they have farm exemption, or maybe you already have a class A). I think the next rig I add to the fleet will be a class 6-7 medium duty with a 16’ flat bed. Hook that up to my 25’ pintle hitch trailer and you could move a lot of equipment or materials in one trip. As it is when going to a fencing job I’ll load the box on one of my dump trucks up with 100-120 fence posts, a few rolls of wire etc then pull the trailer with the skid steer and fence building tractor on it. I like to haul everything in one trip and a flatbed would be handier to load materials on and off.
They appear handier than are but in your case a fold down side dump for carrying bulkier stuff as fence makes side offload much more tenable. Still use as a dump and yes lots of extra pivot points but see a benefit to them. 14-16’ shallow side should not see overload conditions.
It has a 14' flat bed with hoist and i pull a 20' car trailer. I have a 20' deck over that i need to fix up that i could realy use right now. I have to much going on like my brother says "Pee on the hottest fire"
Idk, the straight flat bed trucks sell really cheap compared to ones with a hoist. Already have two dump trucks with 10’ gravel beds and one with 14’ grain bed, how many trucks with a hoist does a man need lol The deck over trailer really makes a big difference, so much quicker and easier to load and unload. Probably worth the trouble to get it up and running.
Tags, registration and insurance are expensive for commercial vehicles not mentioning the upkeep on multiple trucks. Having one truck that takes the place of 2 is something to consider. Like DM I like the 14' fold down "contractor dumps" on a medium duty chassis for the type of work you describe. Might want to take a closer look. For what we do that type of truck doesn't pencil out but we could use a tandem or triaxle dump for short hauls and moving iron around. Needs are great and funds are always lacking like most every other company right?
It seems like it is two times as wide for more space.
My rule of thumb was ranger, F250, the F450/550 for normal use, ie towing a skid steer or mini ex on highway. More weight than that or harder use (offroad big hills), then I want a F750. So many broken springs on F550 service trucks (on the crane side), not to mention all the sets of brakes the 550's ate constantly and ball joints. And engines, just too much weight. But then I see even bigger rigs get overloaded trying to keep it under 26000 and end up beat to death.
I’ll take a closer look at those contractor dump beds, can’t recall ever seeing one around here. As for the cost of multiple trucks, I would like to own as few as possible but not all of those are for my construction business. The C60 grain truck and one of the dump trucks are farm trucks and cost next to nothing for tags and insurance. Upkeep is minimal as they don’t get a ton of miles. The business only has one dump truck and one 3/4 ton pickup. Probably need to keep it that way, from an economic stand point trucks are just a necessary evil. The equipment makes the money, the trucks are only to support the equipment.
A one ton diesel make no sense to me unless you are hauling with it. What I think has happened is "mini" equipment has gone from 6,000 to 7,000 lbs. to 10,000 to 12,000 lbs. and the one tons can handle that but the cost of running them is skyrocketing. I think the market for "medium" duty truck will increase. Now if the manufactures would make one with a bit more creature comforts I would buy one. Lets face it we all have gotten spoiled diving nice pick-ups.
I still drive my 96 Dodge one ton, (Krusty) w/V10 gasoline engine I bought new, and my 57 B-61 Mack truck, (Remedy) purchased in May, 1979. Both are nice enough for me and both will still do a good day's work when required. Both have been paid for since day one and I cannot even begin to justify what a new unit would cost; nowadays especially. Bragging rights have never been a player; the ability to do the task required of a piece of equipment, certainly, and I've purposely upscaled the purchase for the scenario. I've not forgotten how to crank windows open and shut, use a key to open a door handle that is locked, or sweat when it's hot outside. Of course I still believe in personal accountability too, so I'm very much in the minority of modern society. If there is a market for $100K pickup trucks they'll be offered by the manufacturers. Quash that market and they'll start catering something that will sell at a much lesser, and functional rate for the average working stiff. The motoring public drives the market and it's gone the wrong way a lot of years by "Keeping up with the Jones's". Some of my random thoughts for what they're worth.
I agree with you that equipment has gotten larger, even the same mfg/model they have to make the next years version bigger. The problem with hauling isn’t going to get any better though since they’ve now made it so difficult to get a CDL. I don’t remember when the new law passed but I think it was about this time last year that now requires truck driving school. That’s several thousand dollars and weeks of your time that many people don’t have. The problem of the 1-ton truck and 14k trailer loaded to the max is only going to get far worse in the years to come.
All I want in a vehicle is power steering, power brakes, a heater and a radio. AC is nice but not mandatory in our climate. You can still get a new base model pickup for “reasonable” money but no one does. Dealers don’t stock them and aren’t very happy to order them. The amount of revenue the auto mfgs make on the higher trim level vehicles is astounding. I forget what the exact price was but a while back I priced out a new base model F250, regular cab, 4x4 gas with no options. The price was close to half of what the dealers stock on the lot.
One advantage of an F550 vs a F750 or such is the four wheel drive, if you need it. You can get 4x4 in some of the class 6-7 trucks, but it isn't that great. It fits the truck like an afterthought and raises it way up. For the guys way up north that want to work the truck all winter plowing, the 550's just work better in certain applications.
For snow I can see the advantage, anything else off road related the difference really isn’t that great. The biggest downfall of the f450-550 are the 19.5 tires, they absolutely suck off road. Very stiff, narrow, no sidewall and very limited tread choices. I was on a job recently putting down about 750 tons of road base to a barn back in the mountains. The conditions were tough, steep logging roads, mud, stream crossings etc. It was a job started by another contractor with a 4x4 F450 with a 10’ mason dump but they hired me to help because it was taking too long. He was stuck probably dozens of times, I never got my F700 stuck once. I have about the most aggressive drive tires on it you can get and it really goes good. There was one steep muddy hill that I had to go down and then come back up empty as there were very few places to turn around. I was sliding going down and I thought no way will I make it out of here. Raised the bed all the way up to transfer as much weight to the drives as possible, put it in the low side of 3rd and held it on floor. It dug and pawed its way all the way to the top much to my amazement!
The driver matters too . . . you can't fix stupid The tires do matter a lot though. Those 550's can be a real pooch in the mud with poor tires.
How much does a tire for an F550 cost and the same question for the F700 truck?
Can buy 11R or 285R 22.5s around here for around $500-600 depending on brand, belt value, so on. 19.5s WHEN CAN FIND are between $350 and 450, half the life miles or time of 22.5s. Just had that discussion with a Local that is running a F550 where is buying a Pete 537, used but maintenance less than half his F550. Bottom lines are all that matter.
My F350 with the goose neck trailer is really handy,i can insure it for business no problem.The way i use it now im in a gray spot ,cant legally pack more than about 1500 lbs. When i up the GVW to be compliat it means inspection every 6 months on the truck and once yearly on the trailer and a bit of extra cash. This part i dont have aproblem with as i do already with my Kenworth. The kicker is,living on an island my ferry fares double as its commercial use .150.00$ becomes over 300.00$ per trip to the mainland. Your average RV towing a boat trailer stays at the 150.00$ rate, which is sometimes cut in half when they have fare sales to attract more tourists . So us working guys sit in long lineups waiting ,paying double or more. !st pic is an illegal load here as licenced now. But regardless those F350s can pull aload when you want to
I think the 19.5's are getting a bit of a bad rap here from all the guys who have tried them for a service truck. The trouble with those is that the truck is loaded to the max, and probably over the max, 100% of the time. The max load rating on a 19.5 tire is generally about 3800lb. A 11R22.5 is about 6600lb. So the combined load rating for 6 22.5's is close to double 6 19.5's. The 19.5's on my F450 last forever and hold up really well, especially with stuff like punctures backing into the transfer station, as compared to pickup tires. But my truck is a flatbed that hauls a 17,000lb gooseneck around 95% of the time, the truck is probably grossing 11-12,000lb, distributed between 6 tires.
Others can speak to the cost of the 19.5s, my 11r22.5 steer tires are good name brand made in USA, they were $450 ea, drive tires are retreads that were $235 ea, purchased Fall ‘22.
I had one rollback car carrier truck in service with 19.5 rubber. Didn't keep it but a year as the engine was troublesome and the brakes were lacking with a three car load of two on the deck and one on the stinger. Far too much "push" from the load for my comfort level negotiating Chicagoland traffic. Never had another Lo-Pro truck platform, but didn't have any tire issues at all with them.
One thing about 22.5 tires around here is they are dirt cheap used . I got 2 off a fuel truck for $15.00 a piece . Then i was able to get 7 matching drives that are 75% tread . 4 are very good 3 are worn ruff and one was realy bad i left it. Around here farmers will not run mismatched tires so there is no value in used tires. Used pickup tires are more valuable than truck tires it dosent make any sence .
Maybe send some of those dirt cheap 75% 22.5's to Northern Wisconsin. Stuff with 4/32nds are gold up here
I was just thinking about some thing like that. I built a trailer in the early 90s and at the time alot of pickups used 225 /75 / 16s i could get then any were used dirt cheapor free. That lasted several years .
A good thing about the 22.5's is I have a set of tire chains for them because I bought the wrong size
I drive a mechanic truck, occasionally tow, mostly local, not alot of highway. I went from an F350 to an International 1954. I see a LOT of wrench benders driving around 550 / 5500s, and I also hear about alot of problems with those chassis. Mostly, I assume from overloading. Those 550s are really comfy, and got lots of power, and look real sharp compared to the brick I currently drive. They're faster than me, and more fuel efficient as well. BUT - not only is my insurance cheap, but that engine will not die, that rig will not become overloaded, and I'm going to keep driving it. Plus, I get lots of compliments on driving such an old truck. Even when the old cornbinder finally craps out, I'll go find another big truck.
What engine do you have? Your mileage might be very similar.
I have had 2 F550s- 7.3 liters, 2 f250s - 6.0 liters, 1 f350 - 7.3 liter, 1 f350 - 6.0 liter, 1 f600, 1 f700 gas and last but not least an F450 6.7 liter diesel. I don't know what the cost difference is and to me it does not matter. The f450 can do most all work that needs to be done and I can load my kids up in and hook up to a camper, I can drive it home and park it in my little subdivision, or haul a boat to the lake or tote a trailer all the time loaded. It moves fairly quickly. The 7.3 liters drink too much fuel, are too loud, slow and they stink. The 6.0 liter is way faster, 20% more fuel friendly and not quite strong enough to move larger skids and mini excavators. They break at least every 40,000 to 50,000 miles needing the engine taken apart and o rings replaced or injectors of *** ever. The 6.7 liter is by far the best diesel truck ever made and a true work truck. Most of time I weight with trailer at 33,000 lbs and I can move around town pretty good and it has better fuel economy loaded vs the 6.0 and way better than the 7.3. It has stronger tires than the f250 / f350 and can take hitting curbs and holes better and it feels safer driving it. Progressive however want $14,000 per year for top of the line commerical policy. The smaller trucks are less and the larger trucks can be more. I would say that mine paid for itself in the first 50,000 miles of owning it. The larger trucks are slower, and get worse fuel economy, harder to take to lunch in town and it can't really be used much for other than work. They are safer to drive and handle the loads much better. If i get in a wreck or a tractor trailer nicks my F450 going down the road, I probably wont be around to talk about it.. I would have both size trucks but would most likely be in the F450...
My friend who's a diesel tech at a Ford dealer had a 6.0 litre that he hopped up with a chip. He got a good deal on it. He didn't have any problems with it but said you have to be really diligent on the maintenance and service at the proper intervals, much more so that other diesel engines. It got stolen a couple years ago. They found it but he didn't want it back. Because it was chipped it didn't have a throttle stop per say. A neighbor of his heard it roaring down the highway a couple miles away at 4am. When driven normally the chip provided better mileage but you had to be careful not to put your foot into it too heavy for extended intervals. It wasn't a drive it like you stole it DD 2 stroke and would be a ticking time bomb if it was driven that way. Who ever stole it used it to break into a store and it was picked up on a security cam. My friend knows who stole it, even the cops suspected who stole it before they caught the guy. My friend lives in a small town without a police dept. so vehicle thefts are more common. If my friend ever saw the druggy who stole it he'd probably kill him. Apparently the guy has been caught a few times stealing vehicles and after a couple month's in jail goes right back to stealing again. Useless justice system!
The 6.0 is a fix it right the first time kind of engine, I plan on buying more.
I have not been able to correct the issues my 6.0 liters have. I believe it is because they run tow tunes and I pull trailers a lot. The oil coolers keep getting plugged up, I am on number 4 in one truck even with a coolant filter system and we built an oil cooler back flusher which helped but did not get it back into the low 200 degree temps like a new cooler.. They keep wanting to push up into the 220s and 230s. Mutliple hot start issues with stand pipe o rings going bad. FICMs going bad. And head gaskets slowly giving up over time even with ARP studs , pressurizing the cooling system.. Fix the problem and it comes back after about 30 40 50 k miles.. Still have one truck and can take it apart in my sleep.. We had one F350 6.0 that had a 115,000 miles got it new with a manual transmission. It was used to haul loads less than 8,000 lbs. It never had an issue it also never had a pro-grammer on it.. It was totaled in an wreck.. I am of the opinion that programmers break the trucks faster and make them less reliable.
I don't believe in tunes in pickups. You should go oil to air if your not having luck, hopefully you flushing the cooler and then replacing it. Ficmrepair ultimate with upgraded alternator and battery connections solve ficm and injectors issues (not fuel related) Head gaskets with tunes....... Can't remember the deal with o rings ATM, it's typically installation and/or aftermarket parts issues
If the right guy builds it with the right parts, and uses the right tune, 6.0's are great and they last for ever. But there are a lot of bad parts and bad tunes floating around out there for the wrong guys to put on. Also, as stated, do it right the first time, otherwise you are taking the cab off every 20,000 miles.
I am old school if you do truck stuff use a truck other wise you can use a pickup. I like my old Chevy 350s you can tow stuff that a pickup should tow right from the factory without spending a cent. I think its hard to almost imposable to build a Diesel engine for a pickup that is light enough , has enough power to compete with a gas engine and is built good enough to last any time without major money being spent on it . I dont think they will ever build a great pickup Diesel engine .
Did I read that right, $14k per year for commercial auto insurance for that one truck?!?! I have a commercial auto policy that covers my two dump trucks, pickup truck and anything they tow, $2m liability, and it’s only $1500 per year. Granted it is liability only.
Wow that's cheap! 2022's commercial auto policy was as much as our GL - $25,000 per year. Insured vehicles - 2022 F350 2019 RAM 3500 2014 F250 2013 F350 2001 F250 1999 4700 1995 L9000 No claims that we were at fault. 4 drivers with all clean records. The difference between full and liability here is negligible so we go with full coverage. Sold the 2014 F250 and 4700 because one we were not utilizing them and their tags and insurance combined was $5,000 per year. Wasted money. Our problem here in AL is the billboard trial lawyers getting big settlements from commercial insurance policies for a fender bender. Somebody's gotta pay - we just pass it on. One of many reasons the coffee and chicken fingers cost what they do at the drive-thru.
Have those Amboolance Chasing groups here as well, advertise HEAVILY on the Dangerous Big Rigs, Dash Cams are paying for themselves and reducing their payouts distinctly. Have a been a few Low visibility Counter suits against defined Bias as Attorneys, got some of their attention initially where are sliding right back.
We need tort reform in AL badly.
Well, I guess I will have to be done grumbling about my insurance for awhile. I am at about $1500/truck, full coverage. It is amazing how much the region can change prices. It also helps to shop around, one insurance agent can be double what the next one is. I am pretty sure Georgia Iron could get the rate for one truck down from $14,000, but it would take hunting around for insurance agents. I think I talked to 5 or 6 trying to get demolition coverage that wasn't cost prohibitive.
Yes. I dropped progressive. They jumped my dump truck up 800.00 more per year this year and I dropped that also. I am sub and most of these larger companies are to be listed as an insured on all the insurance documents with fairly high coverages so you really get into an insurance need that is just expensive.
There are a few reasons my insurance is so cheap, the biggest being I am a one man show with no employees. Second reason is my wife and I have all our insurance (commercial auto, business general liability, homeowners, farm owners, personal auto, and life insurance) with the same company and get pretty hefty multi policy discount. Combine that with the highest deductibles, perfect driving records and perfect credit and you get pretty cheap insurance.