Hi guys, looking at purchasing a 25000lb trailer so I can move a small Dozer instead of having to keep contracting a rig to move it from job to job. My question is will I have enough truck to move it or will I have to purchase another truck as well. Right now I have a 2012 Chevy 2500HD ( 3/4 ton) with the duramax diesel. I don't move often, maybe 2 or 3 times a month, it's a side job for now that I do on my off days from my regular shift work job. I have been thinking of buying a Chevy 3500 ( 1 ton) but would like to get by with what I have if possible, just until I can afford to pay cash for another truck. Feel free to post what size dozer you have and what you use to move it with, any advise would be greatly appreciated guys, thanks Here's the Dozer, weight is roughly 21000lbs
Practically, in flat lands like southern AL, a modern 3/4 ton could haul a 19klb machine. You will want increased distance between you and vehicle ahead of you. Plan ahead and look ahead to head off issues. Make sure your trailer brakes are suitable and well functioning, especially if you get into hills. Practically... things become significantly less enjoyable with wet roads.... make sure you have good trailer brakes. Opinions of legalities are almost endless and I don't care to get involved with such.
Agree. Just make sure you get a trailer that can carry the weight, take your time and be intelligent. The pickup will more than likely handle the load just fine ON THE PROPER TRAILER.
Haha the legalities is what bothers me. Ten years ago when I was still in high school we would haul 2 case 850G dozers with rakes on a 40ft gooseneck behind a 1 ton all the time. I never worried about that legal stuff, didn't have to,I just did what the boss told me and if he said it was good to go then I would go. I did take my time and watch ahead and keep a good distance from any vehicles ahead of me, but I never had any problems doing it. I haven't moved anything since back then and now I'm getting out on my own its a little different.
The things that will come into play will be the tow vehicle will need to have commercial plates, you will need a CDL to drive it, and most importantly, will the DOT be interested in the rated GVW of the tow vehicle, not what it's licensed for. I have heard of new, hot to trot DOT boys around here getting nit-picky and looking at the axle ratings on a truck when checking a permit. For instance, most tractors have 40,000 lb. rears, but you can permit 45,000 on a tandem.
Look, I'm new but even I know a 3/4 ton chevy isn't enough truck to pull and control 30,000 pounds.
I would not personally ever risk that haul, if something would happen you would not fair well even if not your fault. Just my opinion
Yair . . . I may have asked before but I can't find the thread . . . it sure hasn't stuck in my old noggin but can anyone explain the US classification of pickups . . . its confusing for us folks who live in a normal world. Like I mean to say you have 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and one ton . . . all numbers that seem pretty meaningless. That anyone would even contemplate shifting that D5 other than as a body load on a proper truck or on a tag behind such a truck with air is beyond my imagination and (in my mind) would be irresponsible and stupid . . . the world though is full of idiots who share the highway with good blokes wives and kids. Cheers.
A 1-2- ton ute would not be capable of towing that dozer legally,dont matter where you live o this planet, you might get going but what about braking, all go and no stop is a recipe for tears. Your vehicleyou are thinking of towing it with will have a Manufacturers recommended towing max, if it dosent im sure the local transport cops will be able to tell you
That dozer is 8 tonne with blade, plus the towing trailer weight 2-3 tonne ? They have no made a 4 wheeled ute that could do it.
I know you could probably get away with it but and it is a big but, you are not going to have great control of it. I would recommend a medium duty truck. Old work trucks are a dime a dozen and most still have a lot of life in them.
Scrub, the 1/2 ton is a light duty & the most common for everyday people, the 3/4 ton is a lot heavier duty with larger brakes, driveline etc, used by alot of contractors, farmers that are pulling heavier duty trailers and gooseneck trailers, and the 1-ton is most often a dual rear wheel setup and yet larger brakes, driveline etc than the 3/4 ton. Each class has higher load & towing capacities.
Catmech, I had actually thought about one of those but if I buy another truck I want to be able to use it as a daily driver back and forth to the job and not just just for pulling the dozer. Another truck I had thought about is something like a Chevy C8500 flat bed. Wouldn't be to much of a job to have some ramps fabricated to go on the back of it. That way I don't have to buy both a truck and trailer.
Unless that truck is a tandem, that 19,000 lb. crawler is likely to get you over 20,000 on the rear axle, over the limit.
Not that it will matter to anyone here, but I was assuming a gooseneck trailer. I wouldn't do it with a tag trailer. You will want 12-15klb axles on the trailer, as you won't be able to out more than 2-3k at most on the pin. The trailer will gross ~29klbs fairly easily. I have an 06 F250 and a 13 550. I would do it with the 550 no problem, have done similar with the 250 when I was between 550's or needed fuel on the job.
I believe that the 3/4 and 1 ton pickups we have here in the US are more capable than any 2.5 ton truck of 30 yrs ago. That being said, I don't believe it is by no means proper, but you can put that dozer on a 30,000 lb trailer, and hang it behind the pickup. Can you: yes. Should you: probably not. :my2c
Here's a question for you boys down under: Are four wheelers allowed on the roads that those 3, 4, 5 trailer super road trains run on?? I would bet that a 3/4 ton pickup with that D5 on the back is going to stop sooner than one of those rigs. Just a thought.
All 3500 series 2015 Chevy 6.6 4x4 3.73 axle 5th wheel trailering 17400 GCWR 24500 payload 4159 2015 Ram 6.7 4x4 4.1 axle 5th wheel trailering 29500 GCWR 37900 payload 6428 2015 Ford 6.7 4x4 4.3 axle 5th wheel trailering 26500 GCWR 35000 payload 6460 Just the numbers Edit: 12 Ton 5th wheel trailer in the 6800 pound range
For those who like counting beans (I admit I do on other topics): The 2015 F550 chassis has a max GCWR of 35klbs with a max payload of 12660lbs and 19.5k GVW. The 2015 F450 pickup has a max GCWR of 40.4klbs with a max payload of 6680lbs and a 14k GVW. The 2015 F350 pickup has a max GCWR of 35klbs with a max payload of 7050lbs and a 13.5k GVW. The 550 has larger brakes, axles, suspension, but it grosses the same as an F350 pickup and the F450 pickup out specs it. My point is, the specs are largely a number game.
I would think this would be fairly dangerous to use a 3/4 ton truck of any brand. I use a L8000 Ford with a tare weight of 15250 and a 10 ton trailer to move my D39 which weighs the same as a 5K. There are times when the brakes on this feel like they are lacking. Even if your as cautious as you can be , and doing this with a 3/4 ton truck I'm confident you will be very cautious , its the little old lady that pulls out in front of you or the new driver or the complete idiot which there are several of those around. An old Ford / International truck can be bought for 5 grand or less. One thing to consider , if your hiring it moved now , you can take that off your taxes , you don't have to worry about tires blowing , fuel etc. I move a friend of mines dozer for 100$ a move local within 15 miles , he is an engineer , has done speed sheets etc and said there is no way he can buy a rig for what he pays me. Just thoughts , its your decision.
I suspect that is because the marketing dept. (and the "biggest" pickup obsessed consumers) are not interested in chassis cabs, just pickups. Did you notice that the 450 p'ups gvwr was only 500 lbs higher than the 350, and the 450 p'up has less payload?
Also, I agree with Dickjr, there's no way I'd think I was going to safely tow this with a 3/4 ton, and I wouldn't plan to do it regularly w/ a one ton. The OP stated the dozer weighed 21K, add 6K for the trailer, (now we're overweight on his 24k trailer to start with), now add that 27k to the 6k tare of the p'up, we are at 33k gcvwr.
The thing is everything is fine until something happens. There are so many things out of your controll on the road its not really worth losing the farm over so to speak. We've all done shady things on the roads and gotten away with it but if the day ever comes that some little tin can pulls out in front of you and you send it to the recyclers you better have all your Stuff together or someone will come trying to take you down with some over priced lawyer. If you can stay off highways and major roads then it is a little easier to get away with this stuff too.
I agree with that, pf/l! And the worst would be spending your life thinking, "If I hadn't of done it, that kid would still be alive".
Yeah, the F450 has a 550lb LOWER rear axle rating than the F350, but the F450 has a Dana 111 vs a Dana 80 in the F350. It makes no sense. For comparison, the F550 has the same Dana 110(or 111), also with 19.5" wheels, and a 14.7klb axle rating. The F450 pickup has 440hp, the cab and chassis trucks have 325hp (power stroke).
I think the difference in the 350 and 450 , the 450 is heavier built but the gvw may be based on the tires , the 450 is heavier wears the same tires as a 350 so it has a lower rating , maybe ? I had a 3/4 ton Dodge that had a higher payload capacity than a single rear 1 ton. I could be wrong , God knows I have been before many times.
Yair . . . this is an interesting discussion and thanks for the list explanations about truck sizes. American vehicles and licencing/taxing/registering regulations plus comparatively low costs for the trucks themselves and the fuel they use has resulted in a transport system (and a way of thinking) unique in the world. This is summed up beautifully in the OP's #13 post . . . I don't believe anywhere else in the world a vehicle capable of shifting a D5 could ever be considered a "daily driver". I have commented on this before and find it interesting that although our countries and the machinery is much the same over here we "do it different" with (generally speaking) our "pickups" running electric brakes limited to towing 7700 pounds . . . and they are pretty much all classed as one tonners. I could have some of that wrong and some of the locals will no doubt correct me. I have no idea what the big US jobbies are allowed under our regulations. Incidentally, in my part of the country gooseneck trailers on pickups are almost unheard of exempt occasionally for towing horses. I had to grin at a field day a few years back where one outfit had one on anchored in the tub of an F250 and a few of us were looking at it and scratching our heads and a little girl about ten in a big cowboy hat said "why do they do it like that daddy, can't they afford a proper truck?" Cheers.
I've seen a few guys around here tow dozers with 3/4 ton trucks but never have had the chance to speak to them and actually ask how its working out for them, as many years of experience yall have I knew it would take long to get some info. I looked at a couple of trucks online today and have found a few Chevy c8500's for around $15k, they have 20k lb tandem axels with a 13k lb front axel rating, 53k lb GVWR. I don't think it would actually by a bad set up once I get ramps made on it and a few other things done to it. I know one or two of you said the contract moving would be cheaper and it is at $150 a move. I just get tired of getting a job and only having 3 or 4 days left of my off days and can't get a driver to move it till the next day or so, if at all. That's time I'm wasting sitting at home when I need to have my machine rolling.
Maybe the answer is to see if you can work out a contract with a hauler. Be willing to pay more then $150 for someone which will move the dozer within 48 hours of notification. Should be a carrot and stick thing. Example: Pay $300 if done within 48 hours, or $500 if within 24 hours. If the 48 hour window is missed it will cost the hauler $10 an hour over the 48. Both sides put X number of cash in an escrow account for breach of contract. I can see all kinds of variables but it's just a thought
IMO this is the only positive to moving your own machines, when your only moving a few times a month. But it never pencils out dollar wise to me unless your moving a few times a week. The actual cost of the truck is the cheap part. The expensive part is fuel, maintenance, tags, and insurance. Also keep in mind if we are talking about doing this legally then a pickup doesn't save much money over a truck in this department. License required is the same, registration is similar when registered for the proper weight, insurance is similar. When grossing 30k+ my duramax uses as much or more fuel than a 3406 Cat, so were not saving anything there. When you really do an apples to apples comparison is there any money to be saved by using a pickup with loads like this? On a side note, when did ford start offering 4.30 gears in the F350? Those specs are pretty impressive. I was considering a new ford diesel last year and the gear options or lack thereof were a huge negative for me. Single wheel trucks lowest option was 3.55, if you wanted 3.73 you had to go to a dually, if you wanted 4.30 you had to go to a F450.
Ford towing spec http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/specifications/towing/
Hey Scrub, this might been too far up for you to see. Just wondering if this isn't at least a little bit similar to what we're talking about.
Yair . . . Gotcha Shimmy1 . Not sure about your terminology, the "four wheelers" part I mean. Some of the Aussie blokes on here are "more with it" than me but generally speaking road trains and "B" trains are limited to designated routes . . . in the case of the short "B" trains I believe there are not many places where they are not allowed. These are public roads and any duly registered vehicle can run on it with the big boys. The longer four and five trailer combinations are often running private roads with restrictions on other vehicles. As regards the pulling up issue . . . I know that "back in my day" (big grin) the stopping power of four well adjusted rows of eight 8.25-16's was sufficient to keep any thing straight. I would imagine that the braking performance of a well maintained road train would be more than adequate . . . that "well maintained" part I think in the real world is problematical . . . good hooks on the rear trailer is apparently the prime concern. The key of course is rubber on the ground for any given weight and it seems to me the footprint of a pickup would be insufficient with the kinds of weight being discussed . . . it may well be the US electric brakes are better than we have but it still comes back to rubber on the ground with the trailer and keeping things straight in an emergency situation. The other thing of course is the operator. Generally speaking a driver has to (should?) log some serious seat-time before he is turned loose in a multi-trailer combination . . . it seems that in the US any one with a basic licence can climb into a pickup and shift marginal loads. I am not trying to be contentious, just calling it as I see it. Cheers.
The theory is the pickup will have a higher utilization rate than a dedicated haul truck. My 550s always get crap mileage pulling a gooseneck, 6.5-8mpg, maybe 12mpg without a trailer. 4.88 gears in the axles. Trailers weigh 15+klbs.
thats insane... don't even try towing that.
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Mitch, he did state that the Dozer weighed 21,000 pounds, but dollars to donuts, the trailer is going to be closer to 9,000 than 6,000. I know I have a 2002 Silverado 2500HD with the 500" Gas engine and 5-speed Allison and it's rated for 12,000 on the Gooseneck. I've pulled 11,000 on a pintle hook with it I also have a 2011 Silverado 3500 with single rear wheels, Duramax and 6-Speed Allison. It also has Tow/Haul mode, complete manual transmission control and an airbrake. The trailer I am matching it up with will be capable of 17,500 pounds to total trailer/cargo weight, which is just about exactly what the Gooseneck capacity of that truck is. I may be close to the least experienced person here, but pulling 30,000 pounds with a 3/4 ton Chevy of ANY vintage is not a risk I would take... And I used to jump out of perfectly functional airplanes for $110/month. Everyone may make of my words what they wish. :beerchug
Nice looking D5K Turbo_Drive . Most of us have been where you are making the decision on trucks & trailers . I would look forward in your operation as you may add equipment in the future & take on a variety of jobs . Lots of different combinations out there . We use a single wheel one ton pickup & tandem gooseneck trailer for moving equipment 10,000 # and under , skid loader , smaller farm tractor , etc . Everything over 10'000 # gets hauled with a tractor & lowboy . Also have a short dump trailer I can pull with the tractor when needed . We are in somewhat hilly country so the way I see it is no point putting extra strain on the one ton pickup . Another option is a dump truck & tag trailer . If you are thinking your work will expand in the future I would strongly consider one or the other . There is a huge market in used trucks & trailers with price ranges to fit any operation . Dump truck http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=5682361&dlr=1&pcid=2000718386 Tag trailer http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=5727827&dlr=1&pcid=2000718386
Over here, if I where in this situation , I would consider an older prime mover, cheap and still plenty reliable for the mileage you will be doing, and drop a beaver tail body on it. Dump truck and tag trailer would be better but that's extra rego etc. http://jeremyengineering.weebly.com/beavertail-trays.html Cheers,Greg
Yair . . . good one Queenslander . They make good gear those blokes and not all that expensive. As I mentioned in my #8 post . . . a body load on a proper truck, shagging around with wankmobiles has got hairs on it for mine. Several fellers around here run their ute with fuel tank and tools, welder whatever up on a long beaver tail behind the dozer or tow it in a car trailer behind. Cheers.
Thanks Td25c, I honestly never thought I would have a cat, I've always ran John Deere and that's what Ive always wanted until I got to running a D5k2, changed my mind completely, very smooth machine. I had thought about a dump truck and trailer but then I'm still gonna have to get some kind of work truck either way. That why I want at least a medium duty pickup I can still drive it to the job, mount a fuel tank on it, maybe a air compressor, and carry a few tools. I'm carrying some tools and fuel on my 2500 now and that's getting old. The truck is loaded LTZ and I hate to ruin it trying to work outa it a the time, plus it's the vehicle I criuse around in and take on long trips. I know right now I can probably make it using contract movers cause it's just a side thing, for now. I'm actually hoping in a couple of years for it not to be, im hoping to be working it full time. So I'm gonna want to be able to move it at a moment notice if needed and I'm wanting to get the most use out of whatever I buy. If I can't use the same truck that I move it with as a work truck then that's just something I'll work around. P.s. Don't worry though guys, I've gotten the crazy notion to hook my 2500 to this thing outa my head, haha
Scrub, thanks for posting man, There are a few guys that do that around here, but they are running D6's and 750k John deeres, so they have to use a low boy to move it anyways. If I end up having to get a truck and low boy ill haul my work truck with the machine from job to job as well.
For that d5 a single axle dump dump and a tag would be perfect and ive pulled a dozer that size with my drw f350 a few times possible yes would I do it again yes if I had to or if a short distance because those types of wieght put a strain on the truck like you wouldnt imagine.
Only a complete fool would attempt to haul that dozer with a 3/4 ton P/U.....A nice tandem axle would be a nice haul vehicle for that machine.
I pull with a 96 dodge one ton all the time I have a 32' Trailer I pull my D3c with rake. I also pull a 550g with planting machine on it and it is some weight I would not suggest you pulling with 3/4 I don't care what the ratings are you need the extra traction back there.
Shimmy1: that rig of yours in your photo is a standard 22 wheeler in Aus. Road trains Called B-Doubles have a turntable behind your first trailer which is articulated, these run standard on all mayor roads in capital Australian citys. When you go out west /North of Brisbane tripple trailers are common, these roads are not usually driven on,although bitumen sealed,the country they are to is not a usual drivers route. North-North west they pull 4-7 double loader cattle trains, those areas people know 1 1 coming towards you get off the road. 2 DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDont try to overtake one.
I pull my 08 D5K , 113 inch blade , sweeps, rippers and screens with a single axle International 8100. Ism 370 hp , with 10 speed and 4:11 rears. IT pulls a 1975 Hyster tandem axle lowboy ( single drop on the deck ). My loaded weight is 52,800 lbs with driver and it's also a wide load. All I can say is ,there is no way I'd pull that with a one ton ! Stopping it would be a bitch !
It depends on the combined weight and if it's commercial, private or farm - all different regulations and those regulations vary by state. Confusing as mud, right?:beatsme
The Canadians run alot of B-trains. Commonly referred to as Super B's because they have a triple axle dolly and tandem pup. They can load to 63,000 kgs. During the winter when frost law is in effect, I can load to 102,000 lbs or 46,000 kgs. on my 6 axle. Super B's are not common in the states because we have a 105,500 lb limit on most hiways no matter how many axles you have. Most of the super B's your empty weight is around 40,000 lbs, I weigh 32,000 empty and can gross 94,000 legally. It's not worth dragging around 11,000 lbs extra weight, plus another axle, plus not be able to back up anywhere i want to gain 3000 lbs more payload
Tangent, but I don't agree. More power, sure, but has there really been that change in strength, load capacity, braking, etc? Somehow I doubt it. I think it's much more marketing hype than actually.
Brake systems are certainly better than yesteryear.
That's a definite. I remember an old IH loadstar we had , juice brakes , manual. When I was a kid I remember having to stand on the pedal with both feet and it still needed a tad more. I think it had a 345 gas engine , 45 mph down hill with the wind behind you. Granted these new engines in these pickups are pretty brutal compared to the old 2 ton truck engines. I tell a lot of these young guys running around it would be cheaper to buy a semi with 400hp / 1400 ft lb torque than a 50k plus pickup. Dual stacks look a lot better on a Pete than a pickup.
I think I would be inclined to find a used, but in good shape, heavier truck and not have to worry about a short yellow light and a 30K load pushing me through a crowded intersection. 3/4 T is too light; 1 T most likely is too light also, but if it is flat and you have your eyes peeled for problems, the 1 T would do. Think about something heavier.
I'm piling on the get a bigger truck pile. I have had 18-19k behind a 1 ton SRW diesel cummins and wished I had more brakes. This was with a GN and a farm tractor. I sold that truck and bought an international 4700 LP with a dt530E and a 6 speed Allison with air ride and never looked back. The more weight I put on that truck the smoother it rides. I have to keep checking the mirrors to know that the trailer is behind me. I still get around 13 mpg empty. The only thing that sucks is the lack of 4wd but chains work wonders!
The other thing you have to consider if you are running vastly overweight on a pickup, is IF something happens, your insurance adjuster isn't going to cover you, and likely be liable for possibly criminal and/or civil penalties if someone you run into gets hurt or dies. Easy way to lose everything if you ask me.
Only a fool would attempt to pull a D5K behind a 3/4 ton pickup, regardless of the type of trailer and braking system. That's as easy as I can say it.:cool2