I have a 2004 JD 650H with 2900 hrs cab and air. When changing speeds it almost stalls and then takes off. It is noticed more in higher gears more like 1.8 and up, not very much in the lower gears. The machine tracks to the left and will not go full speed 3.0. It will shift to 3.0 but you turn to the left it will take off and go fast. When changing from forward to reverse it turns to the left, or reverse to forward it turns to the right. It will turn about two feet and then go and tracks to the left. I checked the codes in the computer and they were F393, and F353. Any ideas where to start? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
That may be useful.
Will be watching your post since i just posted a question about the same time you did ,wanting info on your size machine or smaller. When did all this start? I believe you just got this machine this year or last, right??? If i remember right i saw you post some pictures when you was looking to buy. Good luck!:usa
I bought this machine in Feb. of this year. I was thanking earlier my guys were running the machine and an o ring broke on a valve on top of the drive motor. I bought the o rings for the valve and there is a speed sensor on it. I pulled the valve back out thinking they might have tore an o ring or something. Every thing looks good. There was a lot of oil in the belly pan with a lot of dirt and they pressure washed it. My opperator was in low gears pushing cedar and didn't notice it. When I got on the machine spreading top soil on different job and boy "O" boy. I checked the the plugs on several sensors thanking they might have pulled one apart when they washed it, every thing looked good. I am going to take the machine to a mechanic tomorrow and see if he can figure it out. I bet it is something simple, just finding it.
I don't know much about these machines but as I recall there is a LED display in the left rear corner of the cab behind the operator. Those lights should be flashing and I believe that is supposed to tell you something about what is wrong. As I recall the display on the dash also comes up with something. Good Luck
there is an ecm under a plastic cover behind your left elbow where codes can be retrieved. Could be an electrical issue that may be solved by calibration. Water in a speed sensor or displacement solenoid connection could cause issues. Could also be a charge pressure issue. The brakes are released by charge pressure. The 650H should have a charge pressure gage on the dash. Watch the gage while the machine is acting up. A drop in charge pressure can cause the brakes to drag. A motor flushing valve could be acting up. Could also be high case drain in either pump or either motor leaking away charge system oil.
Today we pulled the speed sensors out and put them on opposite sides and still did the same thing. Then we pulled the valves out and put them on opposite sides and the machine tracked to the right instead of the left. I will have the valve tomorrow. I am going to put it in Monday and see what happens. I don't know if there was a piece of the old o ring stuck in the valve or not. You can not take the valve apart, we blew it out and cleaned it with break cleaner and still did the same thing. Wish me luck....:drinkup
which valve? There's at least 30 valves in that hydrostatic drive system. After removing/installing or changing any electrical or hydrostatic component, the machine will not track straight or perform properly until the system is calibrated.
It is the electronic motor displacement control valve change. When we change sides with them it tracked the opposite direction. We changed the magnet-sensor first and didn't make any difference. That is why I thought the valve is the problem. I have the valve now. I will see what happens monday morning. The valve was $780.00 plus tax.
The resistance of the solenoid on that valve needs to be calibrated to the ECM. No two solenoids have the same resistance in the windings. Spring rates are not the same in any two discplacement change valves either. Whether the old one was good or bad, you still have to calibrate when any new valve or coil is installed. The idea of calibration is to let the ECM slowly increase current to the solenoid valves as it watches the track speed sensors. The ECM plots itself a curve of milliamps vs. rpm... and once calibration is stored, it then references this curve as you operate the tractor to make it track straight. E.g. -calibrating straight forward 2 mph: left track might require 200 mA at the pump F solenoid, and 50 mA at the motor solenoid right track may require 225mA pump F sol, and 90 mA at the motor solenoid. The machine ups and downs the current until the tracks are matched in rpm and that gets stored. Then the next time you ask for straight Fwd 2 mph, you get that same 200/50/225/90 current being sent to the 4 solenoids involved.
So what you are saying is that anytime the machine gets hit by lightning or touches a hot wire you have basically killed it and have no chance at getting it going again until the dealer mech. gets there with the computer and factory software to redo everything. Is there no way for the machine to calibrate itself? I grew up in the sixties and seventies where you could always find a way to make something work. I'm thinking heavy equipment is headed down the same path as the Wall Streeters.
No computer or software is used to calibrate the H series. You do it by pushing buttons on the ECM right in the cab of the machine.
Woodstock The codes in your controller are: F393-No anti stall, in reference to the front hydrostatic pump speed sensor. This tells the Transmission controller what RPM the engine is to prevent excessive pull down. F353-No anti stall, in reference to the decelerator sensor. The decel is out of calibration range. You have some electrical issues with your transmission control system. When you say it turns to the left are you referring to "Indexing" as when the machine first starts to move or "C tracking" wandering to the left as you are tracking? Switching the speed shift solenoids does not necessarily mean you have a bad solenoid. The values calibrated on the solenoids are different and may just need to be re-calibrated. If you had a problem with the solenoids the controller should have picked it up and displayed a code. You mentioned switching the speed sensors on the drive motors. Are they adjusted properly? The speed sensors have to be turned a certain way to read forward and reverse. The controller must be re-calibrated after moving the speed senors. This system is complicated and from the codes you have it could be a speed sensor problem or a decel problem that is causing the engine pull-down and a calibration problem causing the mistrack. I would suggest you have a technician check the problem before putting a lot of money in it. You are lucky, there are seven RDO John Deere dealerships in Texas. The closest to you may be RDO San Antonio. The General Manager is Shane Brownlow, Ph.No-830-632-3100. I am sure he would be glad to help.
Well today we put the valve in and tried it and worked great, we went ahead and re-calibrated the computer. Back to normal. Easy fix, glad it wasn't nothing major.
WhyWhyZed, Which buttons in the cab are you talking about? Maybe a short explanation would help all. JackDeere, Maybe a listing of the possible codes would be great.
The feedback link was actually what your problem was, if you were able to watch calibration thresholds while calibrating you would have been able to see it. That's why a computer is important to help aid diagnosing these hydro dozers. I have had a few H models give me trouble with this issue. First one is difficult to diagnose and then after that fairly easy. It is very good practice to swap the DPCV, as it can tell you a lot doing so. Good job diagnosing this problem.. Our young Jack Deere is having a hard time getting all those codes off his computer and on this forum. lol
There is no feedback link from the motor shift solenoid to the motor. The PDCV is on the hydrostatic pump.
LOL, have you ever removed a PDCV? If you have you would know what I am talking about. Hows country life out there in SM.
F393 I just repaired a 700H with the same code and operating symptoms. The first thing I did was remove the front hydrostat pump speed sensor. The end looked as if it had contacted the gear inside of the pump. I replaced the sensor but the transmission would not calibrate. I had checked the low idle RPM's of the engine before calibration and it was ok (890 RPM). During calibration when the decelerator was depressed, the RPM's would drop to below 850 causing the sensor to be out of range (low). After adjusting the hand throttle and decelerator to the same low idle the calibration was then successful. So, to make a long story short please don't overlook something as simple as RPM speed.