tractor with trailer or dump truck? hello sorry for the unprofessional question, I happened by chance to see videos that in certain construction sites certain quarries or earthmoving works in the countryside and farm, instead of using traditional tipper trucks, let's say the classic three-axle 6 x4 wheel drive or some dumper off-road I was saying, large powerful tractors are used, I believe various gearboxes that tow large trailers such as dump trucks to transport earth, gravel, stones and high waste material, what do you think of this solution? you do not think that it is much more effective and economical to use a classic tipper truck than a slower and clumsier tractor than the more agile and fast truck, what do you think that has defects and economic performance? thank you.
I’ve been thinking of building something like this. Definitely has its place in hard to get areas rough terrain etc. we just did a job it would have worked good on. Cool product. !!
I’ve got a setup as you describe, albeit a little smaller. JD4066R and Berkelman’s 4 ton dump with oversize off road tires. Bought it specifically for work on our hunting property. It does a great job. For me, much better than trying to find an affordable dump truck and maintaining it.
do you think it is a good solution? maybe for the country roads, which in your opinion is the best strongest and most reliable trailer on the market right now, which central or side axle conformation? thank you.
That's a slick little trailer in OTG's video!
http://www.miskin.com/DumpWagon.htm Check these out if you want to move a little more material. This company is local to me.
They make a lot bigger models. Mine is matched to my tractor and is about the right size when its loaded full. It dumps pretty fast using tractor hydraulics. The tailgate pops off pretty easy which is nice for carrying logs or bigger boulders.
I think that trailer is great I wouldn't want a bigger one on that tractor for sure. I might be boring and all, but I always think about what it takes to stop something and I don't see any brakes on these rigs. Surge brakes are evil when you're trying to back up a hill so that's not really a good option. It's one thing to drag a can behind a tractor, you can always sell the can and tear up the haul road if something goes wrong. No harm but a few passes with the grader or dozer. On the other hand if you got a big trailer load of stuff and you're in the usual competition of trying to beat Han Solo's time on the Kessel run, something goes wrong and there's nothing to sell but you!
It seems tractor dump trailers are popular in the UK and western Europe. A lot of them used red (untaxed) diesel, that is ending for construction in the UK, so I bet there will be fewer of them used. They're also dealing with shorter distances and more built up environments. In the US, we'd be shocked to see a tractor pulling a dump trailer on the road away from a farm, even if it's perfectly legal.
That’s bad assss right there. That’s exactly what I had I mind!
https://www.constructionequipment.com/first-articulated-dump-trucks https://webbline.co.nz/why-tractor-trailers-are-better-for-earthmoving/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articulated_hauler thanks for the clarification and the report, a friend told me that in reality the articulated frame dumper derives from the marriage of the tractor with the dumper trailer, I think made by volvo from moxly or jcb I don't remember well, they told me a stupid thing?
Dump trailers go back to ox carts, so I don't put a whole lot of weight on the "first", or the inventor. They were developed as materials and production allowed. Not so much any pioneer that created something that hadn't been thought of before. Le Tourneau had lots of crazy ideas, and did them: https://www.constructionequipment.com/origins-modern-articulated-dump-truck It is fascinating how common end dump trailers are in UK farming maybe all of Europe, compared to gravity boxes, evolved into grain carts, and belly dump trailers, into augers or grain legs and bins in the US and Canada. I wonder how much of the use of tractors and dump trailers instead of articulated trucks is tied to the specialization? as in the "price of parts" thread, greater specialization allows the seller more pricing power. Also as in the move away from graders to tractor drawn grader blades, partly the lower need for fleets of large specialized machines, and partly the "Idiocracy" of lack of skilled labor leads to simpler solutions. That is, easier for a small or medium contractor to have a newer tractor and newer dump trailer and grader blade, then to maintain the older version of an articulated dump truck and motorized grader. I have to admit that it's easy to be jealous of those trailers.
thank you for your opinion and your clarifying comments, I believe that currently for a big earthmoving job even if in the countryside if the weather is dry and it has not rained heavily turning the ground into a swamp, rent a 3 axle 4 x 6 wheel dump truck tractor is ideal, the tractor is more powerful but more clumsy and slow the three-axle is perfect more agile fast and powerful even faster than the 4-axle it has then carried, better to make a few more trips than to stay nailed and stuck in the ground I'm wrong , What do you think about it?'
We use tractors and dump trailers for field or site work instead of articulated dump trucks. Road trucks would not travel 1/3 of the time here as it rains from time to time. The lack of a tapered body would retain more muck. Dual wheels would be a disaster when leaving a site with out a hard core area. Articulated dump trucks are no longer legal on the road as far as I know so should be moved by loloader. We have other work requiring tractors so they are multipurpose machines. Road trucks are cheaper to run on the road , the longer the run ,the more uneconomical the tractor gets but if either the load or tip site is unable to support or is too tight for trucks then a tractor and trailer or rehandling material or bringing in unwanted hard core are the options.
thank you for your precious intervention. I would be kind and courteous to attach some photos of some tractors and trailers that you use for earthmoving transport. Thank you and sorry if I disturbed you. ?????????
I think these Krampe trailers with the single lift cylinder in the front would be easy to tip over in rough ground. It is hard to keep an end dump trailer upright, I couldn't imagine being on uneven ground like these would likely often be and not seeing them flip. The ADT style with hyd. cylinders on both sides of the trailer is a much better design, especially on uneven ground.
Those rubber tracked dozers above are very handy, and very expensive to keep running. Best to use those when nothing else will work.
in rete ho visto che molti produttori fanno rimorchi ribaltabili e carri dumper sono tutti uguali credo copiati, credo che i più robusti simili ai veri dumper siano i : HOLMES -e MISKIN DUMP WAGON? on the net I have seen that many manufacturers make tipper trailers and wagon dumpers are all the same I think copied, I believe that the most robust similar to real dumpers are the mistake
Single cylinder tipping a rigid dumper body should have no bearing on stability unless the back hinge pins are black wore out. When trailers were made of angle iron and sheeted with would, 2 cylinders made a big difference.
would you kindly have some photos or pictures of the dumper wagon you mentioned above thank you what brand and model they were, thanks again sorry for the trouble.
I would disagree. Supporting the lift on both sides of the tub will stabilize the tub both when material sticks in the tub during the lift and while uneven ground. The single cylinder is no different than standing on a pogo stick. It works, but it is not as stable as standing on two pongo sticks, especially with a long cylinder. I am not an engineer, so there is that. I have watched several end dumps tip over and both times the sway at the top, created by uneven or in the other case wet material sticking to the side of the tub, tips the trailer to the side that sticks. Having two cylinders would provide more stability at the top of the lift cycle. Perhaps with these trailers being smaller it is less of an issue, but since you cant always pick your job sites, I would rather have a twin cylinder system than a single lift ram.
These seem like they can be a very efficient way of moving material over rough terrain, IF the operation is sound. On the very first video posted, I counted the material being moved 4 times before it was loaded onto the transport trailer. I don't know how you can be profitable like that!!
Unless you have a very good flow divider (which I have never seen on a tipping circuit) the cylinders are T eed together so it will not stop a flexible body from twisting if the load is uneven unless they are at full extension .It may reduce it slightly at best and act like a shock absorber if you get cyclic twisting. Take the pogo stick, put a c saw on top with a small shock absorber on the c saw and sorted . Twin cylinders have other benefits as they can be placed closer to chassis and body framework and dividing most of the forces in 2. Would take some pics but all ours are twin ram so it looks like i am talking out my ass.(not for the first time)
I would think that with the hyd, pressure powering both cylinders at the same time that would keep both cylinders from acting like a shock absorber and provide a consistent lift to both cylinders at the same rate. This in my mind, would keep both sides of the tub raising at the same time, and thus preventing the pogo stick example of a single cylinder lift point. I get what your saying however, the side with easier lift will take more flow (due to the T) and thus not stop the twisting, but likely exaggerate it. Well as I stated, I am not an engineer, barely a dirt guy so there is my disclaimer. Thanks for squaring me away.
Flow dividers can cause issues too, depending on what design they are. If it is a valve style it can get stuck biased to one cylinder, so now it is twisting the bed on purpose. Rotary style can act as pressure intensifiers in some situations. They can also make it harder to bleed the air out, add restriction to the circuit slowing down the cycle time, would be out of sync if one cylinder leaks more than the other and obviously add some cost. I think it comes down to KISS principle. ISZ
Pardon my ignorance , but what is KISS
Keep It Simple Stupid
KISS, unofficial motto of the US Navy, I've been told. Could do a lot worse.
in some dumpers used for the transport of rocks I have noticed they have a pantograph hinge like a big hinge, I don't know what you call it technically, but I think it is very useful for guiding the body when climbing and unloading the body wrong ??