Lost two tires on my trailer today, just dropped off track hoe everything was fine, not 5 blocks away and i'm getting pulled over cop behind me and watched my 2 tires blow out from brakes not releasing. I recently got the trailer, no idea on history, but 5 tires were in rough shape, 2 of the ones that blew, so pretty sure this was not the first time brakes had an issue. What could possibly be the issue? Only one side did it, and even getting it home after, the brake on that wheel never released, but the 5 or so times i've pulled it it's been fine. The shoes/drums are in pretty good shape. It was well above freezing here today so not just a frozen brake. The ABS light is also on. Trailer is a 2012 BWS 25 ton tag.
Need to know Air, air/hyd or electric brakes?
Forget to release the Johnny brake, maybe?
I've had s-cams stick before. Gave the brake can side the tappy-tap-tap treatment and i tried not to use the brakes the whole way home. Took it all apart, replaced the slack adjusters and covered the s-cams and myself in anti-seize.
Well.... there's a couple things it could be. Trash in the relay valve preventing release. Could be that a couple are far enough out of adjustment they'll roll. Could be an s-cam bushing has the cam hung up where it won't release. Could be broken springs on the shoes themselves. Plugged airline from relay valve to offending parking brake chamber (if so equipped). Simple process of elimination. If it has a fancy ABS relay valve they're kinda spendy. Make sure all the cams turn easy, no springs are missing on the shoes, no air lines plugged, chambers are good etc. If there's a restriction in the blue line where it won't exhaust properly it will cause them to drag. Might double check there isn't a gladhand shutoff or a quick connect somewhere plugged up. That's all assuming air which on a 25 ton I'd imagine that's what you have.
I've seen the clevis pins seize to the slack adjuster too and cause dragging brakes.
Forgot about that one, yeppers that'll do it too. I've had to cut the darn clevis off before to get the offending slack adjuster out and we hardly see any salt or chemical down here.
Sorry yes air brakes. The trailer also appears to have been sitting for awhile too, and quite a bit of dirt underneath. The truck I’m pulling it with is virtually new, was just rigged up to pull trailer on air recently. The brakes work good when loaded, and doesn’t pull one way or the other so not really far out of adjustment. Yes trailer has ABS. Trailer seems to have lots of air available to tilt deck and move ramps up/down if that makes a difference.
I would start looking at clevis pins, anchor pins and s-cam bushings. Could have great shoes with thick blocks but drums could be too oversized, that will allow cam to reach a high point during a hard impact application as parking, any distortion as a flat spot on a cam head can do this too.
Well after a lot (I mean a LOT) of swearing I finally got this thing disassembled. Like 8 trips to the city, first a 3/4" impact, then 1/2" hose, removing regulator and anything else I could think of to put out more air from my 20 gallon compressor, to getting fed up and buying a 60 gallon compressor, then buying the most powerful 1" impact they had because even with the bigger compressor the 3/4 impact wasn't doing it. Ending up spinning 2 nuts, I stopped as soon as they spun, hopefully I can get new ones in, the hub looks ok, and tearing the threads apart on one more. No idea how the lugs where so seized, put penetrating lube on them 3 days in a row and wire brushed them and the 1" impact rated at 2500 ft/lbs still struggled a lot to get them off, going to replace all studs and nuts though. Anyway I was able to cage the brakes and they released fine not sure if that eliminates the brake pod? (although I guess it wouldn't eliminate a possible air problem to it?) I attached pictures but both brakes shoes are worn much more on the backside which doesn't seem normal? Thankfully the drum is in good shape, going to replace the shoes though. There is some kind of metal piece broken by the s-cam though? I'm no expert but other then that and the shoes worn funny everything looks fine to me? There is no wobble in the s-cam, or would I need to remove shoes to verify that?
Forgot the most important one, of the s-cam.
All the dried up gunk on everything is a good indicator that the shaft is dried up and not turning free also. I would probably just get a set of rollers and springs when you get the pads, and clean up the shaft to get it turning. Drums really aren't that expensive and then you would have all new.
That metal piece is a retainer clip that holds the roller in. Not seeing any funny wear on the shoes though?
suladas, Your stuff looks good to me. I think that the cam bushing are dry and chances are the slack adjusters are just as dry. I would pull it apart now clean and grease everything (including shoe anchor pins). without drums on you should be able to set park brake and then release it and shoes, slack adjuster, and camber push rod return on their own (just shoe return spring tension). I think that sitting has got things stiff.
Those s-cams are as dry as a pop-corn fart. Typical of equipment trailers. Truck Shop
Based on what I can see of the S-cam with the block thickness you have recently installed shoes (couple years anyway) minimal use but the pattern being so far up the back of the cam tells me the drums are oversize, A LOT. Measure or have them measured against max diameter. The above statement I agree with, cams have not been lubed in a long time, would not be surprised to see the zerks on the cam support bearings sheared and the bearings slipped. And that would be a yes as to releasing the brakes and seeing the cams roll back easy, quickly. One item of note, back the slack adjusters WAY off or the cam could over roll and drop rollers in on the backside of the S. Clean all that built up gunk off the rollers and cam heads, look for ground in flat spots on all of the parts.
Ought to note, while it is sitting wheels off, have someone or yourself release the brakes and see how fast each chamber releases.
Don't button anything up until it takes grease nice and easy. Also, when you replace zerks think about a comfortable angle when it's fully assembled. Not only zerk angle but orientation as well. That's mainly an issue on the cam bushing zerk in the backing plate. Clean clean clean. If there's a shadow of a doubt on drums go ahead and do them. Use the old ones for a vice mount or something. I use my old drums for shot-put practice. If I can't throw one at least 25' I need to eat more Wheaties. Shoe wear sure looks like drums are out to me or there's a mismatch somewhere. Do wheel seals while you're there. No sense in soaking a fresh set of shoes. Plus if they've drug odds are there not long for this world anyway. If slack adjusters won't take grease sometimes you can soak them and get the old crap pushed out where they'll take grease and function properly. Even when it was my dime I usually did a complete rebuild every other set of shoes. Chambers, drums, seals, bushings etc. On my lowboys they caught so much trash, my guys weren't great about greasing and I didn't want any inspection issues. A few hundred extra now is a lot easier than paying the scale master's cousin to cornhole you for a brake job at the scale or the side of the road. Pay me now or pay me later!!
Thanks guys, that helps a lot. I have a few questions. Should I be removing the s-cams and slack adjusters regardless, or clean everything, see if I can get it to take grease, then make sure they move freely and only remove if it they don't? How do I back the slack adjusters off being that they are auto slack adjusters? I never looked but is there still that nut to turn them like the manual ones? I don't know if it makes a difference, but picture was taken with caging bolt turned all the way in. The drum has very little wear not where i'd say it needs to be replaced, there is a tiny ridge where the shoe ends, but not much and there is tons of thickness left, I attached a picture but don't think it will show much. I have receipt from old owner showing mid 2014 all new drums and shoes done, and last time trailer was inspected. The shoes didn't even seem that worn, just the very back of both pads, the rest had lots of life left. I measured diameter of drum and it is smaller then the max diameter. I don't know how to verify if it's the correct drum though? They are 17.5" wheels and drum says 12.25x7.5". The one thing I did notice is the receipt from old owner shows drum price at double what I was just quoted when I picked up the shoes, they quoted the drum off of me just bringing in old shoes, not seeing old drum so maybe it is a different drum? Speaking of that I attached a picture of the studs, the parts guy said they are wrong and used for aluminum wheels (mine has steel), they look funny to me because they are so long, which is why I think I had such a problem getting the lugs off because there is so much thread to get full of junk and ruin the threads. However, all 6 wheels have all the same studs so I doubt on a 2012 trailer someone would have already replaced every single stud? Considering I was told $1000 to replace all studs and nuts. The oil was dirty, but every wheel is full to right level, and hub turns nice, no sign of oil on shoes at all. Should I also be pulling the bearings to actually check? I was worried about having to re-torque that nut as I don't know if my torque wrench goes that high. Wheel seals would mean pulling the bearings as there's a inner and outer correct? I want a safe trailer that won't give me problems getting pulled over, but at the same time I might put 2,000 miles on it a year, so if I can get by with the drums i'd prefer that, instead of spending another $1000 on them. I bought new pads and hardware kits for all wheels though. Sorry if some of my questions are dumb, it's been about 7 years since i've done air brakes, only only ever done them once so not very familiar with the setup.
Snap a pic of your slack adjusters. They'll have a hex head into the side or a small rod with a clevis pin running length wise with to adjuster. If it's the hex head on the side just unscrew it and you can back it off. They make a tool to save the time of unscrewing it but it's not necessary. If they're not completely froze inside from muck and hard grease you can back them off without releasing anything, it'll take some effort and pop as you back off. Another option is to un-pin from chamber and run them on around the direction of adjustment until they're where you want them for assembly. Setting pre-load on spindle nuts isn't that hard, it doesn't take a tremendous amount of torque. Some guys torque, some use a dial to measure endplay and some just do it by feel. Yes if you do seals the inner and outer bearing will come out. Is there any mention of seals etc when it was worked on last. You might be lucky and just need to clean things up and grease it thoroughly. I wouldn't mess with studs, being too long doesn't hurt anything. Just anti-seize them throughly when you go back together. Also, apply some to the hub where it centers the wheel, it'll make things easier to get apart. Hub pilot wheels like to grow onto the hub! If you don't use it much I'd just assemble clean after verifying everything works and takes grease. You can't really over grease the brake system so don't be afraid to hit it every couple times you pull it. Especially if your roads are crap, it'll help push trash out of the cam bushing and slack adjuster. Also, any pins need anti-seize as well as the spines where the adjuster goes on the s-cam. Can't use too much of that either.
I will snap a picture tomorrow, but here's the link to the part number for the slacker adjuster that was replaced when it was serviced last, I noticed the nut, that makes sense. The only mention of seals is "hub seals not leaking at this time". None were replaced, nor any bearings. Yes I noticed the wheels like the hub, it took awhile to get them off, especially with two flat tires and not being able to hit them. After replacing shoes to adjust slacker adjuster I just turn the slack adjuster in until the shoes contact drum, then half a turn back and they are set? https://www.haldex.com/en/na/aba/ha...applications/12-14-brake-assemblies/40010305/
IMO anytime a wheel/hub assembly is off EVERY thing in there is inspected, cleaned, seals replaced unless grease hubs and then the machine reassembled when I know all is up to hard work. Will be a max diameter on the hub side of the drum, 12.25 drum should be 12.35-12.37 or less than 12 and 3/8" Will still look quite thick.
again all your stuff looks good from pictures so clean and grease. I would go ahead and clean and paint wheels as well, crappy looking wheel get the DOT guys attention. Don't over torque hub nut most damage I see to wheel ends is to much preload on bearings, but make sure they are locked down we don't want to loose a hub. Tidy up air lines and ABS cables as well. FYI the leading edge of the shoe lining is always thinner that the meat of shoe just look at the new ones.
Yea I noticed compared to the new shoes, they had give or take 50% left, no sense in putting new shoes on. I got everything back together, slacks and s-cams all got grease pushed in, the slacks took grease pretty easy, 2 s-cams were incredibly difficult to put grease in but did get it in, will be greasing them each time I use trailer for the next few times. Had to replace all 8 studs, no matter what I did I couldn't get nuts to thread on nicely to old studs, even with new nuts, the threads looked ok but my electric impact wouldn't put the nuts on so I played it safe and replaced all 8. Hope the others are better, or else i'm spending $1000 just on new studs. But when I was testing the brakes, I noticed a decent difference in how fast/far the push rods are moving. The brake I worked on is great, a few others not so much. I was planning on greasing everything again, and then going ahead/back some more times working the brakes. All brakes were releasing fine no dragging, just difference in the movement of push rods. The drums pretty much measured 12 1/4, there is really no wear on them, since they were new with these shoes and the shoes aren't even bad enough to replace.
Took trailer in for CVIP, was scared when they told me $5000 in parts, $7000 in labor to fix trailer.......Until they rattled off the list of like 50 things, 95% of which is a bunch of BS. Apparently one ramp is bent, I stopped by and I couldn't see it and I even said who cares? It works fine the ramps are so overbuilt it's crazy, it's not safety, it's not part of the inspection. And they said one ramp doesn't contact the ground properly when down, but they did it without the deck tilted so not even doing it properly, they contact fine if the tilted is tilted. I never got a break down, but they figured on 2 new ramps, replacing ram etc etc basically replacing everything for the air ramps because apparently the ramps don't work properly. They may be slow, but they go up and down for me, so I don't want them touched. I know better, with most things like that if they try to "fix them" they will end up breaking them, and it's a waste of money to spend like $5k on something that works. The other items include license plate threads stripped, some reflective tape is a bit worn, outside rail is a bit bent (maybe 5" long and bent in 1/2", not much, there a 3/4" hole in a mudflap, the connecting link on safety chain is seized (why do I care, it doesn't effect the strength and I don't need to pull it off?), a few small holes in the decking, a couple d-rings ripped off and holes in the side rail from it, one of the locks for the tilt deck the handle is broken off, and a million other little things that don't even matter. Even if I did have them fix everything (not a chance) I don't see how they could possibly be at $7000 in labor, 50 hours fixes a lot of stuff. I am going to fix all the little stuff, and I know with my welder helping me I can fix every single nit picky thing with maybe 10 hours labor, minus the brakes and ramps which i'm not touching. Maybe i'm too lax because it's a trailer, but does anyone care if 2 tires are a bit cupped? It's an equipment trailer that gets bounced around, i'm sure the alignment isn't perfect but as long as it's not burning up tires like crazy, I don't see any concern. The few things that were a bit of a concern, they said all 6 pins holding slack adjusters to pods were seized so they couldn't measure cam rotation for inspection, could they not just cut them and replace? Or pull the slacks off the s-cam (assuming it's not seized too)? They also said one s-cam tube was crushed I forgot to look so no idea how much not the s-cam still has room to turn fine, now is it fair to say that should be replaced, or should it be as long as cam turns fine it's ok? The brakes are working perfectly now once greased up good so no actual concerns. I was planning on having them do everything related to the brakes, it's not much anyway but I want to make sure i'm not getting screwed.
Here's a picture of the slack adjuster.
Really should get a gas axe(Acetylene Torch) and heat the clevis pins get them free then replace them, that will slow brake reaction time. S-cam support tube, so long as NOT in contact with the cam itself can be dented, if is interfering with rotational movement or does have contact drag then replacing is not a bad idea. I would want the holes in the frames fixed where the D-rings came off, that is structural, as far as the rest, cosmetics are just that but latches and safety chains I would want them as functional as feasible.
Yea I figured might as well replace them, it shouldn't be that big of deal for them to get old ones off. Truck is in the shop at same time so I have no way to get trailer back until truck is fixed and considering the pile of parts it was in when I went there, it's going to be a bit, thankfully all warranty, so I figured just let them take care of any brake/axle issues and I can fix the rest in a day and take it back for sticker. I had planned to weld on all new d-rings to get rid of the holes. I am going to just replace both safety chains.
Some heat and good penetrating oil should free those pins up. Like you said, a good of what the quoted is cosmetic or non-critical stuff. Labor seems out of sight to me. I'd have them do what you're not comfortable with and tackle the rest yourself. The joys of ownership!
suladas, Sorry bud but I have to say this: You asked some basic stuff at the start of this thread and you were given solid advice from the folks here. From the replies you have posted, either you did not know how or did not have the time to take it (when I say clean up and grease, it means just that. Including slack adjuster pins, not force some grease through the fitting). If you came to me for a safety inspection (I have a license and do PA. state inspections) I would do the same thing as the shop you took it to (to cover my ***). You can bit$h about the shop, but they can tell that you are taking too much risk with your rig considering your knowledge and experience from what you have posted here. For what it's worth I have benefited from help on this forum and feel I should be helpful to others in return and in this case it is going to be the people that share the road with you and beg you to take hauling heavy equipment more serious.
The joys of ownership buying from someone who doesn't maintain stuff.... Yea, I learned my lesson from when my truck and trailer went in in the summer, I was so busy I didn't have time to be on top of them over $9k bill for not much, bill was easily 3k higher then it should have been. That's why this time I am not giving them any slack. I want to know right down to the penny the cost before they touch anything. Yea there is so much stuff that should never have even been mentioned. Like who cares if the foot for one jack is bent? It works fine. I could cut both jacks off the trailer and it would pass inspection..... Or the handle for the jack handle missing, that's because they broke it off and it's sitting on the shop floor! Why would I pay to fix something they broke? I gave them another chance as the foreman who was there before was fired, didn't get exact answer but I assume many complaints about their shotty work. They are 3/3 for having to bring back everything they have worked on because of a problem of them not doing their work properly.
I am open in that I was trying to do what I needed to get it back on the road to get my hoe moved to the next job, and it was simply too cold after that for me to want to bother, so I took it in expecting there to be some other stuff with the brakes, however there really was nothing, the trailer needs a few minor things but really is "safe" for the road right now based on their list. I know i'm not overly experienced with air brakes, that's why I asked so many questions to absolutely make sure I was confident in what I was doing, and that it was done right. I'm assuming you're referring to the clevis pins being seized, I have looked at them, and I absolutely do not see in anyway how them being seized is negative to anything, other then removing them. It's a fixed pin that holds two items together, nothing else. And really, I am going off of them saying they are seized, and I don't exactly trust their word. I read every single reply i've got and take the advice, however there is a few that contradicted others, so I asked follow up questions. I was not ignoring any advice I was given. I can assure I do not run anything that is unsafe. I could have caged the brake, put on 2 tires and ran the trailer with a brake not working, but I wanted it to be safe, I guarantee you a decent amount of guys would just do that and run it. In 7 years of driving heavy trucks, I have never failed a roadside inspection, had a ticket, or an accident of any kind. As far as the shop, I am tired of mechanics who think it is up to them what is/isn't in the inspection. It's SAFETY, and SAFETY only, if it's not safety it's none of their concern. I do not give a **** if they "think" having a bent jack foot is a problem, it's not safety and i'm not fixing it to pass inspection, I could take the jacks off and it would pass. There is way too much left up to everyone's interpretation and each shop varies way too much (I hear it all the time from others who are tired of it also). A mechanic cannot say oh it looks like you don't maintain stuff, so i'm going to be more picky and call you on stuff that I wouldn't on someone else, that is someone who shouldn't be working on equipment. If it's not safe for one, it's not for another. If it's safe for one, it's safe for another. Now, if there is a company who they let by with safety stuff and it keeps coming back the next year and it's obvious they don't look after stuff, I can see being stricter as far as letting stuff go, that's fine. But trying to make me put a handle on the latch to tilt the deck? Not happening. I will put one on, simply to make it easier to tilt it but out of principle I am not doing it for inspection. I told them very bluntly what I will have them do, what I will do, and if they won't put a sticker on it after that I will pick it up and take it elsewhere for everything. I mean in the summer with my other trailer, there was mud flap brackets between the duals, and one was missing so what did they do? They took a grinder to the other side "so they matched". BS like that is what absolutely drives me insane. It never should have happened. If I didn't care, I would have taken the trailer to a shop who will pass anything, the shop it's at knows I could go get a sticker without doing anything. But I want a safe trailer. But I also am not going to be gouged and do things that aren't needed, there is a fine line and frankly I wish I could find a shop that knew how to be closer to it.
Believe me I know what you are talking about when it comes to finding a good shop to deal with. For me I have to "compete" with the the hacks with a new customer (fortunately I don't need them now) and I have to be careful how I go about it. When it comes to doing inspections by the book it is a joke. I do it for owner/operators that I know different than some one "off the street". If my sticker gets involved in an accident or even a pissing contest with a DOT inspector it is my license that take a hit as well. I also have to admit that a dry drive line is not part of the inspection but it dose tell me if this rig is properly looked after so I look a little closer at all the other stuff.
You'd be surprised in how little the hack shops are worried about it. From hearing what they think about it, many have the opinion once it leaves their shop anything could be done to it, therefore they aren't liable, like someone could remove parts after getting it inspected. It is really crappy. We've had a truck for about 7-8 years now, and been to 5 different shops for inspections, all are a pain. I chose this one again for trailer because their inspection charge is so much less then others. There is some charging 3 hours labor, on top of 150-300 fee. So I figure, even if they do get me for 2-3 hours labor, at least i'm getting something for it. I would really like to build a relationship with a shop and take it there yearly and not worry about it. And when they see how little it's used, get more flexibility with things. A dry drive line makes sense, as it's a clear sign it's not being looked after. But they could have told me I needed to put touch up paint on the trailer and it would be about the same as some of their issues. IMO when some shops are too picky, I think they drive people to the really bad ones who are too lax because they are tired of getting screwed.
i know this is a few days old but anti seize is highly not recommended on hub pilot nuts junkyard they say a light oil i use what i have on hand typically 15w40 a couple drops on the stud and one drop into the spinny part of the nut is all i have ever done i know people that have used antisleeze on them with zero problems but still its not recommended , one 2 peice budd nuts im all for anti sieze on those suckers im glad i dont have any of those to work on anymore.
I've never heard anybody say not to use anti-seize on hub pilot lug nuts. I suppose there's a logical reason (in somebody's mind) but I can't fathom what it might be. Learn somethin new everyday I suppose.
All i could find is it throws off the torque spec, which is with the stud being lubricated with 30 weight oil. So, when you pull out that 1" torque wrench we all use on tire changes, the clamping force would be under spec compared to oiled threads.
Well that does seem logical. Although I never torque em. Maybe I should lol. I used to do all my own tires. Now I seldom even pull the wheel and tire off and take it in. I just go to the tire shop and point!
TMC recommends against usage of anti-seize. IME, those guys represent companies where the equipment is used daily and traded off when it gets a little age on it. They do not represent the guy with older, light usage equipment such as the original poster. I also have that type of equipment. My trucks are a pita, but I have to have them to get equipment from place to place. So yes, I use anti-seize on my lug nuts, pilots, and about every other fastener. It may be 5 years before it comes off again.
Well I figured I was done with the brake issues, but guess not. On friday one wheel wasn't turning, pulled over gave the slack adjuster a few taps started turning and everything seemed fine. Loaded up hoe, and kept paying attention tire was spinning and seemed fine. Got a ways and the brake is smoking, at that point i'm in the middle of the city no choice but to take it slow and hope for the best. Did the short job, tried to cage brake but didn't have much luck didn't want to release so was forced to drive with it again. Anyways shop said today that they needed to blow out brake pod and that was the issue? It makes no sense to me, the movement in the pod/slack adjuster matched the one side that works fine. Also pretty pissed that i've only used the trailer 4 times for maybe a total of 200 miles since they worked on it and now I have brand new bearings, seals, drum, shoes, and tires getting burnt up because they screwed up. Also it is of my opinion that every single piece on that wheel, seals, bearings, shoes, and drum should be replaced because their life is reduced, the wheels were HOT when I made the first trip, so hot when I left about 5 hours later the hub was still warm and everything was covered in brake dust. I can't see how that wouldn't killing the bearings and that they aren't on borrowed time now. The shop doesn't want to replace any of it. I haven't said it yet, but if they still refuse my counter would be a written guarantee that if that anything on that wheel fails before any other wheel, they fix it for free and cover all towing fees. And that way, if forbid something did happen to that wheel, all the liability falls on them.
My two cents worth... On my tagalong trailer brakes, my number one issue with dragging brakes is the inner camshaft bushing. Looking much like a tennis ball, it is held in place by a left and right cover plate. Corrosion effectively squeezes that bushing until no amount of grease can allow smooth action. That includes rust scale inside the covers, and the bore of the axle bracket. Anytime I have doubts, I fully assemble the camshaft without shoes in place, and ensure that I can 360° rotate the cam EASILY.
S-cams and bushing are brand new a month and 200 miles ago. That’s why I’m so stumped on what it could be.
Again, that inner bushing has been the source of 80% of my brake dragging problems. Call the tennis ball bushing to have, let's say, a 2" OD. The axle bracket on all of mine had, say, a 1.95" ID after years of rust. I had to open up that bracket bore, to, say, 2.05" before the bushing didn't deform when installed. And, the bushing cover plates HAD to be replaced.
Since you're still dragging, disconnect the slack adjuster clevis pin and cycle the camshaft with a pipe wrench. Smooth and fluid with a pipe wrench it should be.
Ok, let's go back. When you took your trailer to the shop, they replaced a single spring brake chamber correct? When the center seal fails on a spring brake it can be a real PITA to find. They are inconsistant. Sometimes they fail hard and always leak. Here's the problem, they don't leak where you can hear them. It slowly or lightly applies air to the service side. That's why your stroke was good and even. Did you purchase new spring brakes as part of your brake job? Did you just get foundation brakes replaced. If I were you I would not worry one bit about my bearings. If your seals weren't leaking when they went in there to replace the brake chamber you should be just fine. Unless that hub got so hot that it blistered the paint off of the surfaces I would not be worried one bit. Something else about your statement kind of caught me. You said you only use it 3 maybe 4 times a year. That is a long time for oxidation to occur and grab ahold of the S cams also does push rods in the brake chamber are steel the housing of the brake chambers aluminum corrosion is going to occur there as well. If nothing else just hook up to it once a month and exercise the brakes just to break loose any corrosion. Honestly if I were the Tech helping you I would have just put on a brake chamber and left it at that.
Get the wheels/hubs(ALL) off the trailer, remove the brakes, make certain ALL the rotating mechanisms are free and roll/swing easy. Apply air to the parking side of the chambers with the service side line disconnected, should be NO Air issuing, connect everything back then release the park system operate the service air(Wheels/hubs still off), the Quick Release valves HAVE to dump immediately and if don't will hold air on the service brakes where the one with closer adjustment or weaker return springs will drag.
They did not replace any brake chambers. They replaced s-cams, shoes, s-cam bushings, bearings, and seals. It didn't take any paint off, but like 4 hours later the wheel/hub was still hot enough to pretty much melt snow on contact, i'm no expert but in my opinion I believe that had to have negative effect on the bearings. Apparently they just blew out the brake chamber, and that was the only problem. Claiming everything else is fine and wasn't damaged. We'll see I guess. I used the trailer 3-4 times in the month since it was fixed. It sits for maybe 2 weeks tops at a time, usually used once a week though.
Bingo... "truck was recently rigged to pull a trailer on air"... Has this shop tested your trailer with YOUR truck? I have seen so many hack jobs when straight trucks were converted to pull trailers by people that thought they knew what they were doing. A 1 or 2 psi leak to the blue line is all it takes to drag a brake.
Or a restriction that won't let blue line exhaust properly.....
Like Bugs in a TP valve?
Sure could be. Or if it was a converted truck does it even have one? If it does has it been plumbed properly. The recently rigged part makes me wonder which dash valve setup is has. Lots of options for air supply or restriction issues.
Same shop who worked on trailer did the rig up, so either way, their problem, especially considering I paid them $2k to do the rig up, and yea it's a hack job for sure. The truck was in the shop at the same time as trailer was getting brakes done, so they had every opportunity to make sure everything worked together good.
The truck had dash button from factory, and as far as I know most lines were there, just needed to be ran to the back.
2k? and the money you have spent on the trailer too? Yeah they better be figuring it out for free now. Had a guy bring me a 48' flatbed 2 weeks ago, said the brakes dragged. I checked the trailer with my regulator bank and it all worked perfectly. He hooked up to it and it was dragging again... sticky brake pedal... not enough to crack the relay valve on the tractor but enough to drag the trailer. Sometimes it doesn't take much. Just saying the guys you picked might not be the right ones.
ALL trucks with air brakes have the Yellow park control, did they add a trailer red control, a tractor protection (TP) valve and or a hand control under the wheel?, lines for trailers are NOT necessarily installed on straight trucks OEM. If not they spliced into the system and it is not legally nor properly set up.
Yes $2k just for the trailer part rig up, then $6k for the repairs, then another $1.5k for 6 new tires. It's been fine since, well that part anyway. On monday when I tieing down my track hoe I happened to look at the brake through the hole in the deck, the clevis pin on the slacker adjuster about to fall out because the pin is gone. Thankfully I seen that. Can't believe it, that was the brake that was just dragging, the frigging shop JUST looked at that brake for not being done properly the first time. And another joy, a week before that when i'm stopping at a light I hit a bump go to take off from light, trailer brakes won't release. After much swearing and climbing under trailer, fitting to one of the air tanks on trailer broke off. Not placing too much blame on the shop for that, but I find it hard to believe that fitting just went like that, especially being behind the air tank. I'm guessing it was partly broken for awhile. Hopefully that is it, because I am really getting sick of this trailer. Can't really blame it, just the shop that is completely useless.
The hand control for trailer brakes was there from factory as well as red button, and they hooked it up so it does work.
Ok... You already had the "tractor kit" on the truck and they charged 2K to run 2 air lines and install a pair of gladhands? Or did that include a hitch and plate too? Just trying to figure out how to make easy money here. (Kidding). I think you really need to find a shop with a balance of quality and price. I would shoot one of my guys that forgot that cotter pin, I don't mess around when it comes to brakes mainly because I don't want to be a co-defendant if a customers truck runs over a busload of kids, Nuns, and puppies. On the broken valve... I'm betting it's been leaking for awhile and they never put air to it to check. Had a customer bring a 40'-24' flatbed combo in last week, said the brakes dragged. The diaphragm on his hitch for the pull trailer was leaking just enough air to drop the supply pressure to the pull and drag the maxi brakes slightly. Tough leak to find.
I haven't read this whole thread but I am suspecting the brake chambers. Either an internal leak from emergency side to service side inside of air chamber or broken springs on park brake side and service side or the rod from air chamber to slack adjuster rubbing on air chamber where the stem passes through it. With the red trailer dash valve pushed in and trailer brakes released how long does it take for air pressure to drop from 120 psi to 90 psi? Install a gauge on the blue line coming from trailer by removing the blue glad hand and see if you have and feed back air in that line.
There is also the plight of us older Mechanics, Cannot hear the slight air leaks above the din of the tinnitus. I really have to struggle and push effort to find where air is leaking anymore, cannot always soapy water where you need to.
While looking at the picture notice the upper roller is completely off the S cam. I can also see from the dirt scraped off the cam that there is very little to no movement of the cam. I would completely disassemble all of the brakes clean and reassemble replacing any worn or defective parts to be sure this doesn't happen again. Tires are way too expensive to throw away.
Wow, this is going on a year now and you still do not have the brakes working right?
Your right 63 caveman. I didn't even look at the original posting date.
Yes I have long ago got the trailer fixed, thanks though.
So what were the issues?
Has anyone ever tried these grease-less s-cam bushings? (etcominc.com ) they sound promising but are a bit pricey.
Would trust them as much as a greaseless ujoint
The one thing I wonder about is the deicing fluid on the roads. That stuff works it's way into everything under a truck/trailer and the brake systems are awash in it.
Being able to flush the bushings with grease seems to help in that area. Had a Freightliner with non greaseable bushings on the steers awhile back, both brakes were dragging. Had to beat the cams out with a sledge, turned out there were plugs where the fittings would normally be. Guess how it went back together?
Even tho its an older thread, I learned a lot.
Be nice to know.....