They've always been a little slow to release but today they're not releasing the maxis at all. I'm getting air in the supply tank when I press the red valve, and it fills on up and stops filling. Everything on the trailer runs through this valve. Could this be where the culprit is?
That is a R-6 valve antiquated, If the trailer has 30-30 parking brake chambers. Really it should be upgraded to a Midland FF2 full function valve Like a KN-2800 or so. Is there any air at the brake cans with tractor brakes set and trailer released? https://www.manualslib.com/manual/392676/Bendix-R-6-Relay-Valve.html For some reason I'm thinking you have single diaphragms, Because that valve should be feeding service brakes. I'm not seeing a spring brake valve. The top port is a control port the one right below is supply.
I'll get a helper out there and check but I think the problem is at the tractor protection valve on the truck. I think that's the answer you were fishing for with that question?
Pretty easy to check. FF2 valve below operates service brakes and park brakes. Simple to install.
Thank you for your help. I think that's going to be a good idea to modernize the trailer. I figured out what happened. The last time the trailer moved was about December 5th. When I took it down to the truck shop to get the inspection done. He noted that the trailer brakes were out of adjustment and crawled under there and got to wrenching. I think he just went the extra mile I backed off the slack adjusters and lo and behold she moved. The cans were going full stroke. I think they need a little bit of room for parking rust. They were trying to get a mobile mechanic out here to look at it where it was sitting and I'm going to call them back and say hey. How about if I bring it down and we readjust those brakes? I probably erred on the side of loose, but the manual handle stops the truck and trailer fine. The maxis are only on the front axle.
I jumped in the old 2 stick Mack that once served as the service truck for the prep crew. It had a full load of gravel on, and was hooked to the tag along. I came to the stop sign at the end of the road leaving the plant, and sailed right through. Not a brake on truck or tag along. I got turned and went back to the shop. The driver, a fresh graduate of trucking school had backed all the slack adjusters fully off, and them tightened them up a quarter turn. Just glad nothing was coming.
Yeah that's a sickening feeling. Before I worked here, and in between when I was gone, they would not bring the truck to the truck shop except for an occasional oil change. The first thing I did when I came back was crawl around under there and adjust the brakes. Now I have it at the truck shop often enough that those guys take care of it for me. Usually.
Better have a 396.2 card. 1/3 turn to 1/2---1 1/2" stroke on a tag.
Usually in the spring I have to crawl under mine with a hammer and give the drums a whack in order to move . . .
I've been thinking about upgrading my trailer brakes. Is it acceptable to have parking/spring brakes on just one of the two axles?
Yes one axle is acceptable and two are better but some tag trailers won't accommodate both because of clearance issues on rear axle. So only the front. But I would like another photo of SK's front axle hose routing.
I will post to the thread next time I move the trailer. It takes a machine to tip it up for photos. Next stop is back to the truck shop for adjustment, and yes it looks like there is no room at the back axle for a maxi can when it is tipped.
Move that trailer yet?
No. I will probably take it to the truck shop in the middle of next week if they can fit me in, and they can re-adjust that brake with my issue in mind. They have the appropriate card for doing that. Then I can tip it up and take a picture.
You guys have to be certified to adjust brakes? They started that here before. I had to adjust brakes on a mock up axle for the guy that does driver exams. He said I would have to do it again in 8 years, but then they did away with it.
Brakes adjusted! They released fine, repeatedly.
What's a 396.2 card?
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-III/subchapter-B/part-396/section-396.25
Just a side note about slow to release brakes. Have had that problem several times on our tag trailers. Dirt a sand gets in them from our dump trucks and clogs the valve. Have put filters on them and seams to help.
Has maxi's so R6 just service side?
Correct-either has a spring brake valve or just a QR-1.
The trailer supply passes through the bottom of that R-6 into the tank. The tank has a fitting in each end out to the maxi's.
Well that ain’t kosher but would work. Maxis would come on as the service side bleeds off.
Look a the picture. it is ported through there separately. TS linked a document in his post that shows the routing.
R6 applies service side for parking, spring brake just a backup when tank pressure bleeds off. That is what I meant! Normal set up for maxis is a QR1 off the Emergency side to drop the maxis when pull park side button even if R6 already had service side applied. Been there converted a few from single chamber to maxi style. Both ways function.
The reason for a Spring brake valve or QR-1 is both are not trying to exhaust through the same port as the service brakes. Reason I asked about the R6 hose routing is that was standard practice years back, but was corrected with separating the two by using a spring brake valve such as a SR-5. Supply air is fed to the tank through the SR-5 and exhausted through the SR-5. Which will feed the R6 which will be controlled by the foot valve to service port. The reason for it was to get away from compounding/anti compounding and trailer brake away. https://www.bendix.com/media/documents/products_1/valves/SD-03-4516_US_007.pdf
I don't run parking brakes on my trailer as I'm always moving it with a skid steer to and from the storage area. Been that way for years with no problem.
Nothing mention in the reference as being a "card." Just having a record that a mechanic has been trained. However, the last sentence in subpart (e) of 396.25 says those records aren't required for a driver that has passed the Air Brake portion of knowledge and skills test for their CDL. In otherwords, if you have a CDL and don't have an air brake restriction.
That's true--However CDL part of air brake inspection does not qualify for adjusting or repair of air brake system. The card is proof to DOT that a person can adjust or repair air brake system by having training from a manufacture of air brakes. A driver can look/ inspect but that's about it. Especially if there's a accident and it enters the court room, lawyers will have a field day. It enters the area of is the driver a mechanic also-probably not. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol5/pdf/CFR-2011-title49-vol5-sec396-25.pdf#:~:text=396.25%20Qualifications%20of%20brake%20inspec-tors.%20Motor%20carriers%20and,in%20com-pliance%20with%20the%20requirements%20of%20this%20section.
Thanks for posting the link for others. There is no such thing as a CARD. There is no card that needs to be carried or produced. There is no certifying agency for issuing a card. The word "card" does not appear in that section. If you worked somewhere that issued a card, that is fine, but the DOT has nothing to do with it. If you don't have a CDL without the L restriction, then the shop you work at must maintain some record that you are qualified, but that is not required to be a card. Again, 396.25(e) states that a carrier or intermodal carrier is not required to MAINTAIN any records of qualification for a CDL holder that doesn't have an airbrake restriction. 396.25(d) states the requirements. There is no requirement for training, although it can be one avenue to satisfying 396.25(d)(3) as outlined in 396.25(d)(3)(i) and (ii). To be qualified, you have to Understand, be Knowledgeable and have Experience. In essence, a mechanic can self-certify. Finally, the title of 396.25 is Qualifications of brake inspectors. The section makes no differentiation between an inspector and a mechanic. If you can qualify under this section, you can do work on the brakes. Lawyers will have a field day anyway and a nothing in 396.25 will prevent that.
You don't have many posts, are you some kind of lawyer?
Cool. What agency issued it?
https://csa.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyplanner/documents/Forms/Vehicle-Brake%20Inspector%20Qualifications_508.pdf
Agency? I think your trying your best to be a newcomer smart ass. You really think passing CDL air brake gives that person the right to remove a wheel end changing out air disc brakes.
Hey Truck Shop, I was reading your posts and had a couple of questions. I have a truck that has manual slack adjusters. Does that mean that I am not allowed to adjust my own truck and trailer brakes? Also, I removed all wheels and brake assemblies and installed new drums, pads, brake hardware and slack adjuster bushings which took me a couple of days between driving around and taking back drums once I figured out they sold me a wrong sized set. Sounds like that is not ok? I can tell you this, from my short experience with only one truck.. The brakes can loose power during just a full day's use and I have had to stop and adjust during a work day. I have 3 times had my brakes go soft and for those that have not experienced it, once you can not stop a load and it is pushing you down the road, you will do what I now do stop in the first place you can and tighten the brakes. I don't know that I can look at another truck but after using mine for 8 years I feel as if I know this truck.
There two federal regs, one contradicts the other. There is 396.25 and a appendage CFR49 that goes with it. Both are conflicting-the feds have not corrected one or the other to match. * But I like to throw those out there one at a time because it causes all the Small Town Pizza Lawyers to come out of the woodwork and get riled up. It is great for creating all kinds of hate and discontent, The problem is people don't read both regulations and only know of 396.25. CFR 49 says you have to have a card on file in state or province. Because of the CDL air brake test it causes people to think they have the expertise to inspect and repair air brake systems. But the FMC won't clarify the rules. So you can change all the brakes and parts you want and no one will care, until there is a wreck then DOT will come down on whoever followed by the fellow wearing the shark skin suit. * The name is Truck Shop. Not Truck Stop-I don't eat roller dogs.
That truck have engine brakes? jake. Might need new slack adjusters if the lock doesn't pop out at hexhead adjuster those will back off each time brakes are applied.
No engine brakes. I have wondered how long a break adjustment should last. I believe the locks are popping back out. On some of the air brake chambers you can see where the rods have worn the edge of the chambers from touching when they push out too far. Once you tighten the brakes as much as you can what is your recommended back off for the front and rears. I know that if the fronts are slightly different from each other it will pull you one way or the other on the road under braking. If I saw your post correctly you want the rod to move an 1.5" on the trailer brakes. Does this change for a heavily loaded trailer vs an empty tag trailer? Sometimes the tag can lock up and the truck is still rolling, I have flattened 2 trailer tires and 2 rear truck tires under lock up.
when things are adjusted right, it is common to slide an empty trailer if you are not tender footed. Loaded not so much.
You keep bring the same **** up, but there is no mention of a CARD. All of it falls under CFR49, and the second part you are referencing is 396.17 and 396.19. Yes, there are record requirements under 396.19, but, you only get into 396.19 if a carrier chooses inspections under 396.17(e). 396.17(d) says that a carrier can do their own inspections. Georgia Iron, you can work on your own trucks.
I believe that's called right to repair. I might look at the CDL book I'm pretty sure it tells you how to adjust them. There is no certification or license or degree or card you can carry that means you can do something. It's just a piece of paper. If that were true everyone with a CDL would be a good driver.
Yes I told him that.------------------And I knew you would come flying back all hackled, how's Elvis.
Is this right about where people stand up fast, chairs get flung back, and hands with twitchy fingers, start reaching for holsters?
I'm too old to stand up fast might get dizzy and fall down
Missouri just must have experience as a mechanic or been properly trained and can show how to properly adjust. No card needed. Always made me wonder, CA, OR, WA and many other states have pull offs to perform a brake and brake function test before proceeding Down Grade. Not gonna get a mechanic up there to adjust them for you if out and if bypass the stop lose braking are subject to multiple fines. So Fines for adjustments No Card or Fines and possibly accident lawsuit If do not. Not exactly a coin toss.
third option, you find them to be wanting and you park your ass right there until help arrives. this would save many lives.
Your correct no card needed-now. During the time of FHWA the rules were different. Starting in 1998 the federal rules regulating motor carriers and involved maintenance were overhauled-including brakes and related repair. The FHWA became FMCSA. By 10-1-2001 changed rules and all verbiage pertaining to new/old rules was changed. Because major motor carriers lobbied the old rules were archaic originally drawn up by the old ICC going back to the 30's. Back in those years there was a brake certification card although most never acquired and rule was never enforced. The card was brought on by Teamsters along with other odds and ends. * Part of this regulation overhaul also had to do with the crazy rules individual states had on the books, One such rule was in Conn. Driver had to prove he had night clothes on when off duty in sleeper. No joke-rules like that were lobbied and abolished.
I forgot that there are automatic slack adjusters, so adjustment of these are clearly a moot point since they are always perfectly adjusted. According to the CDL manual you can adjust them yourself, although it wants that to be only temporary because something else is broken then. I always remove automatic adjusters and put in manual ones.
H-06-3 note that auto slacks are dangerous because it gives the driver a false sense of security. Partially true, when those became mandatory in 1994 and enough trucks had them-drivers no longer had to get under and get dirty. Which caused worse pre-trip inspections, less was being looked at. Like most things what destroys auto slacks is lack of grease, regularly.
Even with automatic adjusters, I give it the pull out every time I grease. Trucks or equipment. Greasing is when you can pull and tug and shake, and find stuff broken or worn.
True--The one give away is when there is a gap and light rust in drum.