I find the New World Order international symbol controls quite perplexing on my recently acquired Cat 236B2. I haven't hooked up any auxiliary attachments yet, but when I rent one I'm worried that I won't be able to get it to operate correctly, or even know if I have an electrical problem or a personal problem. Has anyone attempted to put English translations of those symbols in print for us internationally-challenged individuals? It seems that if Cat sells these loaders to an English-speaking customer base they should simply put the switches and controls in English. I've checked ebay several times to see if I could get an owners/operators manual but all they ever have is manuals for 236B and 236B3. I kinda hate to pay 40 or 50 bucks for something that may not be applicable to a 236B2. Does anyone know if 2 speed travel was standard or optional on this model? I can't get it to work.
You didn't get the operator's manual with the machine? That sucks. I hate those stupid symbols, they're supposed to be universal in that everybody looks at the picture and knows what it means... I think universally they're just confusing, but manufacturers love them because they don't have to make thirty versions with different languages. Touch screens are good because it's not that big a deal to program another language and flash it into the stack to select from.
As Lantraxco says, get used to pictographic symbols. It means the manufacturer only has to produce one version of the machine. Don't simply assume that because you speak English the rest of the World should or does. It's a pain when you buy a used machine and there is no O&M Manual in the back pocket of the seat - I assume yours is used BTW because there's no way a new one would come without one. If the Serial Number of your machine is higher than HEN06750 you will need Cat Publication reference SEBU8385. It'll cost about $50 from your Cat dealer. If it's not in that range post the S/N of your machine and I'll check which is the correct publication for it.
For a while there CAT and DEERE I think it was were attaching a cable to the manual so it was FOR SURE in the cab of the machine when it sold, it was a liability issue they were doing their best to cover. Manual had to be in and remain in, the cab of the machine so the operator could consult it any time the need arose. Great world we live in, eh? :tong
Thanks for the replies. I did buy it used. very used. It was made after HEN06750. I'll get one at the dealer. If I did not speak or read English, the pictographs would not help me one bit. I imagine over half their products are sold to English-speaking customers. For the rest, finding an English-Swahili or English-French dictionary would be much easier than reading pictographs. As a matter of fact, I wish it was in Italian or French or German. At least then I could look it up on the net. There is apparently no way to look up pictographs other than buying the genuine Cat manual. Maybe Cat is trying to be "politically correct" and sensitive to non-English reading personnel already in English speaking countries.
Your answer surprises me somewhat, because in many years of experience all over the world I've never heard complaints from operators in either English or non English-speaking countries about not being able to understand pictographic symbols. It's not as if Cat are the only manufacturer that uses them, and they are an International ISO Standard. I do have a copy of the Dictionary of Pictographic Symbols in Adobe pdf format if it will be of any help to you. If you drop me a PM with your email address I'll gladly send it to you. Even the cable won't stand up to a pair of side cutters .......
The paper manuals always end up as rain goo or rodent tooth sharpening devices. Some kind of plastic laminate like what used to be put in telehandlers for load charts would be best. But then again that would likely cost a lot more than $50. I have to say I don't much care for the symbols either. Which switch turns on the high flow function in a skid steer. The symbols do not provide an intuitive solution to that question. Which switch releases pressure on the hydraulic quick couplers so you can hook up an attachment? How would you know by the symbol?
We had about the opposite problem years ago. Boss got a deal on two of what I guess would be called "Grey Market" 966D's. All the labels on gauges and warning decals were in German! Pressures and temperatures were all in metric figures. I replaced most all the critical warning labels with English language ones and made my own labels for the few gauges. Did not worry about the actual readings as the red/green zones still made sense to the operators. One slightly off topic thing about one of these machines is while checking it over noticed an oil drip coming out of the belly pan under transmission. A close look and I see a large wade of newspaper soaked in oil. When I pulled it out noticed that it too was also printer in German! Not sure if that was a factory approved repair for a leaking output yoke seal or just a last minute fix as it was being loaded on the boat.
Take a look at Dictionary of Pictograph Symbols.pdf from Safety.Cat.com
Right. It's all well and good, but having passed 50 a while back, most of these idiot lights are smaller than a postage stamp, are under plastic that's scratched and smeared and wearing a layer of ground in dust, and if that light comes on and the beeper goes off, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING WITHOUT CONSULTING OVER 75 FREAKING PAGES OF ROSETTA STONE HIEROGLYPHICS TO FIGURE IT OUT! Some of them of course are obvious, but every machine has different systems and different warnings, I can't remember every variation. I accept it's something I have to live with, but I don't have to be happy about it. Cheers! Lanway
Ok I dont want to be nasty, but remembering a 82 page pdf with about 20 symbols each page is like learning Mandarin (Chinese)
I would point out that if you have the Operator Manual (which the OP didn't and is where we came in) then you have access to all the symbols that you need for the particular machine you are operating at the time. IMHO it ought to be against the law to sell a used machine without the Operator Manual being in the pocket behind the seat.
Its still a challenge when you are in a 3rd world country with no literacy skills That means if you cant read the Operator Manual is useless
Been there - done that. We used to take people out of the bush in places like Angola, Mozambique, & Zambia who had never operated anything more complex than a bicycle and teach them how to operate heavy equipment. I must admit I found it quite strange initially (but not after I'd been there a while) that anyone who went on their 30-day annual leave had to go through a re-training course on their return before being allowed to operate a machine on their own .........
If you're looking up a French word in a French-English dictionary, you look it up alphabetically. If you're looking up a pictograph, you look for the pictograph from cover to cover until you find it. This is why I think Cat customers would have been better served to have controls labeled in any common alphabet language. When I finally do get a grasp on these readouts, I will spend some cab time with my dymo labelmaker tagging them for future reference. Forget about me trying to memorize all those pics.
Even worse than the pictograph issue is a machine that is poorly maintained. The hot sun with no protection for the switch / gauge panel can make for a lousy experience for a new operator or even a mechanic that is not familiar with the machine. I have spent more hours than I care to admit trying to determine what the faded or completely missing symbol is, just to troubleshoot an issue.
Most of Cat pictographs can be figured out with a few clues. If it has a picture of a gear with a little thermometer in the center-That's transmission temp. Picture of a gear with two arrows pointing at each other-That's transmission pressure. Picture of a gear with a broken line across it-That's transmission filter plugged Now the same thing but a little picture of a hydraulic cylinder, same things but that would refer to they hydraulic system. A wavy line with the thermometer in the center, key word wavy, wave means water so that is coolant temp. Once you take the time to dissect the picture into it's parts for the most part they are easy. Forgot one, (0) something that looks like that, the ( is meant to look like a brake shoe and would probably have the little thermometer to say brake oil is too hot. Don't try to over think the fact you have disc brake! I will agree that a machine in poor condition especially one with no cab could be a problem. But then even if the indicator or gauge had been in the Queen's English the wording would be gone so what good would that be?
Please, don't hold back man...tell us how you really feel about it....
Well, couple more years it will be a moot point, we'll have autonomous machines without seats going about their business. Even the ones with operators will have satellite links, they'll decide for themselves if there's a problem, to shut down or derate or keep working, and phone in the fault information for a central computer to decide which service to dispatch or schedule. What will we do with all the people though, when the machines operate themselves and learn to repair themselves? Hmm? They won't need near as many of us poor folk anymore and may well do away with us. Sweet dreams.
And to some extent that day is already here. The last two machines we got where I worked would send me an email if someone shifted them wrong or some other parameter was triggered.
Doncha just love that..? Filling your email inbox with even more **** you don't have a chance to do anything about ...... I told our local dealer to take me off the automatic email list for the Product Link-generated emails
At last - the voice of reason ..........
There are reasons for both points of view. Many of us remember the US before globalization. Readouts were in English. Equipment was made in USA, built to last and built to be servicable. Nowadays we buy poorer quality stuff made in third word countries with multilingual writing on it. The international symbols tie in with this whole sickening trend. Major corporations are now controlled by globalists. We did not benefit by these changes , but we're expected to bend over backwards to accommodate them.
You would think a online decal shop would have made CAD files of a bunch of dashboards by now, offer customized labels, just tell them which machine, which panel, and what you want them to read. Peel and stick it would fit around all the switches. After some age, if they crack or rub off, call 'em up for a re-order, just push "print".... Shouldn't void any warranty either.
You have just defeated the argument that it would have been too expensive or inconvenient for Cat to have made the readouts in English in the first place.
Well...no, not exactly. Different decals, equals different part numbers. Having had to design a couple of decals, I can tell you a multi million dollar machine will be held up from customer acceptance (and payment) for a lousy $10 decal. That $10 decal now just became very expensive, and very HOT. To not incur late delivery fees totalling millions, I have seen $10 decals flown in.
Maybe that indicates it's a perception of being an issue rather than an actually being one because if it had actually been an issue then someone somewhere (maybe even the OEMs) would have been all over it like a cheap suit in an effort to make even more money.
Nope, customer comes in with his inspector, refuses to sign off product until all the decals are in place. Seen it happen several times. So much this company keeps a local vinyl sign place (that can also make decals) on hot standby.
Crossed wires Doug. I was referring to decals to stick on dash panels to provide English translations for anyone having difficulty understanding the OEM-supplied pictographic symbols.
ooopsy sorry Nige.
Cat still does, a simple bolt can be removed or the cable can be cut if desired. Some remove the manuals because they get wet and ruined or pests eat them. They would if you understood them. If you or anyone else doesn't, their native language has little to do with it. Why learn a million languages when everyone can just use ISO symbols? I would think you would likely be wrong then, the operator is what matters more than the customer anyways. Even if they sell half of their products to people that speak English, what about the other half? Screw them they don't matter? "Merica"? English is fairly common, but still estimated that around 6% of the world population speaks it. It has nothing to do with PC. I think you miss the point of ISO symbols. Its not about English versus Spanish, its about adapting a universal standard across all platforms, manufacturers, languages, etc. Even if everything was English, there would be confusion because every company has different names for components, not to mention regional differences with English and the interesting translations from foreign languages. What I call a bubbler you probably call a drinking fountain, but neither one of us would go thirsty if we saw the symbol for one. If I asked you where the time (TYME) machine was you would probably call me crazy, but if I see the big letters "ATM" I'll be okay. Sure "ATM" is english, but it may as well be a symbol because those three letters would mean nothing if you or I hadn't learned what they meant/symbolized. Its called learning, never stop and you will get through life fine. A few quick examples of Common English variations in cars that cause confusion: Tempomat versus Cruise Control Dynamo versus Alternator Dipped Beam versus Low Beam Boot versus Trunk (Bonnet versus Hood) The list goes on. There's also the issue of certain features and every brand having their own trademarked name for that feature. One example off the top of my head is the GPS Guidance in Farm equipment. VarioGuide, AutoTrac, AccuGuide, Intellisteer, etc etc etc. You can find the ISO symbols, but I will agree its not always that easy. With the trend towards ISO standards for many things I do wish ISO would release more information for free or allow someone else to publish the info for free. I understand they need money to survive but if something is to be an international standard I don't see why it shouldn't be easy to access, could just be me being curious though. I like reading through that stuff but don't actuall "need" to most of the time so I'm hesitant to pay for it. How do you tell the men's and women's restroom apart? You know what the signs mean. Heck look at road signs and many of the standards that have been adopted for roads to make more sense out of them and try to make navigation easier. I'm not saying it works, but you know what a lot of road signs mean based on shapes, colors, size, etc. The actual writing on them (if any) only pertains to the specific location you are at, the rest of the sign is primarily an identifier. So then buy the owners manual? It will only have what pertains to the specific machine you are running. English writing will get scratched, smeared, ruined also. The size issue is something as well, hard to write out a lot of what those things do and then fit them in the space for an indicator or switch. Things then often get abbreviated, like WIF (water in fuel). By the time you do that, you might as well use the symbol because then any language anywhere knows what it means regardless of the way they would write it out or even translate their version to english. Actually that is one of the reasons for ISO symbols. To eliminate variations across manufacturers and their products both past present and future. This way it doesn't matter if you are in a Tak CTL or a Cat 994 or a JCB telehandler, the symbols will be the same and you will not have to relearn them. Each machine may have additional symbols you will need to learn, but there will be many that are the same if that function is present in each machine. It does also mean that should you buy a machine from Germany for example, you will not have to learn German, you will be able to identify the symbols, same thing happens if you hire someone to run it that doesn't speak english, they know what it means. If they don't know what it means, they can look it up in a guide that is tailored to their language. I will say there needs to be better resources for the latter, but these symbols are just becoming very popular. The downside about ISO standards is that as with any standard they can add limitations and at some point things may outgrow the system, but in the case of universal symbols I don't think that will really be an issue for awhile. A lot of symbols may end up outdated and new symbols will need to be designed for new inventions, but that shouldn't be much of an issue. Other standards, like the ISO communication standard that Ag tractors finally use (any brand can talk to any brand) could have its limitations with advances in new technology. The other issue with many standards is that a lot of them are largely voluntary, the major manufacturers help design them and usually implement them but often times there's not necessarily anything forcing every single person that builds something to use that standard. I wouldn't say there needs to be either, just pointing it out so you don't expect every piece of equipment to be using the ISO symbols. Don't forget not every symbol is an ISO symbol either. You don't have to know every symbol, only the ones that you need to get through the day with your machines. Learn them as you go, the nice thing is that you are not wasting time learning something that wont be useful. As was outlined earlier as well, once you start learning them, certain aspects will become familiar and you'll notice most of the more complex symbols are just made up of common simple symbols put together. Break the symbol down into what you know, then put the puzzle back together. Take the engine symbol for example, it can have various things coupled with it but that basic shape lets you know its something with the engine. Color's also matter, as well as flashing lights, alarms, etc. These can vary slightly in their urgency across machines though. A lot of the symbols used may be familiar from technical drawings as well.
In this specific case, I don't mean to come off as a ****, but this is a B series skid steer loader. There just aren't that many switches and lights in that machine. I would hope most people would be able to figure out at least half of them as they are pretty obvious. You don't need to learn anymore symbols than you need to operate the machine. Yes its best to read the manual cover to cover, but thats not reality. Most people learn best on the go and most modern machines are fairly idiot proof. If you don't know what a switch does, don't push it. If the machine wont do what you want it to do, maybe that switch has something to do with it, then look it up. If you just get the machine you don't need to know every bell and whistle right away, but don't wait until you need to know them either. Bugs me to no end when people don't use a lot of the built in features simply because they never took the time to understand what they actually did. If its your machine though thats your choice. Again though, in this case its just a simple skid steer. There's not that many lights and switches in that machine. It's hard to appreciate the symbols in something like that especially since it was made in the US and the original manual was written most likely by an English speaking American, maybe not someone that understood the machine, but they understood our language. Once you get into foreign equipment with poor translations, you really appreciate the symbols. Our German tractors have big touchscreens with hundreds of pages/menus/etc within them for adjusting and customizing every minute detail. You will very rarely find a single word anywhere. The operators manual doesn't explain most things very well and the pictures they show in the operators manual often have German writing on the screens anyways. If you can't read how would writing on the switch help instead of a symbol? Symbol would likely be better? I don't quite get where you are going with this post. You don't have to memorize them, do you stop and read/study every switch before you push it? No, you get used to where they are at and it becomes second nature. Labeling them with your own labels would be a waste of time IMO but that's just me. I'm just going on a limb, but I imagine you can probably count on your hand the number of symbols in that machine that you currently might not understand. Same thing would happen if it was written or a symbol. Thats why an owners manual is still needed even for those that know every symbol, to know the location of the switches in an unfamiliar machine should they become illegible. We already do that, most still have operators (sometimes largely just for legal reasons). Telematics allows any machine to be controlled remotely, diagnosed remotely, etc. Just depends on what they OEM has built in. Our SSL's don't have many features in their system but the service package shows up when someone at the store sees the hours are close to the next scheduled maintenance, with no time wasted making calls. It's nice but has its downsides too. It's usefullness shines with poor operators, someone that is smart can sit and control the fine details of multiple machines while operators do the basic work. You also don't have the "stories" so to speak when there's an issue. The downside is that it can cause some companies to make their talented operators feel controlled or limited and cause them to not care or leave, leading to a less talented workforce overall. Some of the completely autonomous stuff is tough to pass up. It's hard to find good help that actually cares. You might not feel you benefited from a global economy, others may not agree though. There's a lot of countries besides USA and third world, many that you can thank for a lot of the things that have been implemented into the machines here. Not everything built here was built to last. You likely benefited from a lot more outside influence than you realize or want to admit to. Nothing wrong with foreign stuff. I love our German stuff, the quality is second to none. Since this is a skid steer forum, look at small diesels and Japans influence there. I like our American built SSL's just as much too. COO doesn't mean a lot on its own. Learning from foreign countries is no different than learning from your neighbors/friends/families. The more minds, the more ideas you'll find that you might have never thought of. Others accommodated our stuff as well (look at aviation). You don't have to accommodate the symbols, just like you can keep your toolbox full of SAE tools and never buy any metric, but it might become harder down the road. You can order the switches from various places with a number of different logos, some will do custom as well if you can afford it. The switches in this case (Cat SSL) are a pretty common switch from Carling Techs Contura series. The B3(cant confirm earlier) machines used the Contura II, the C/C2/D use Contura V. You can put stickers over if you want but many of the switches are lighted and that may or may not be an issue for you.
Well said........:thumbsup
Wasn't really wanting to apply stickers on top of rocker switch's, more like duplicating the panel around them, applying 1 large decal on the dashboard surface. It would not obscure a lighted switch in any way, nor cover up the o.e.m.'s markings on the switch either.