help please. trans oil in my dresser 510b is a little cloudy and has alot of air bubbles (foamy) in it. trans runs fine in my opinion but then i m a newbe to heavy equipment. oil level stays consistant and it has a new hyd filter (changed all fluids and filters when purchased machine) got me kinda stumped because i dont know if this is normal or how the system works. any help on this topic would be apreciated. thanks in advance.
First, have you got the right oil in the transmission. Second, if the transmission is overfull the constant spinning of the gears will whip the oil into a froth. Third, Charge pump could be sucking air, or the suction screen is clogged.
thanks oldseabee. i appreciate your taking time to help me. so.... 32 wt shell hyd oil in trans. when cold on level it fills bottom sight glass. it is up into the upper glass as well. maybe too full? if it was the charge pump or screen wouldnt my trans performace suffer? it doesnt like to start out in 3rd but it will do it. normal i hope. thoughts?
i joined this forum to learn, help where i could, and maybe get some technical help when i need it. i ve learned, i ve tried to help, but not much technical help. i know with the level of experience out there some one has the answer. please share it with me.
What did the old fluid look like? When you change fluids you can't get it all out, so there could still be a little water in the fluid? or it could be sucking air as mentioned, that wouldn't make a noticeable difference, until the pump gets enough air on a really cold morning that the fluid won't flow. If you're concerned about the fluid it wouldn't hurt to spend the $10 on an oil sample.
2 things: 1. the hose to the charge pump can get pourous over time and suck air but not leak or the internal suction tube in the sump could have a pin hole or a leaking fitting where the suction hose connects to the transmission. If the trans and convertor are all one piece and there is no external suction hose then it could all be internal. 2. Are you checking the oil level with the engine running of not, most power shifts are checked with the engine running, not sure on the dresser I was a clark man. If the engine is not running when you check the level, you could be actually low on oil and at times sucking the sump dry or very low which will encourage air entry into the system.
thanks for the feedback guys. easy ones first i guess. 1. its really cold most mornings up here. the fluid is normal colored. fluid removed was not off colored either. 2. checking oil with engine running on a flat level surface. even went so far as to make sure on tire inflation. it is a little higher when running than when not. at a cold check(first started) it would appear proper. warm level fills lower glass and runs between lines on upper glass. when i did the changeover i located the cappacites for the machine and filled accordingly. 3. no visible external leaks. 4. pump hoses look good. rubber is firm but flexable. appear dry. they dont have that wet look you get when oilly one thing i d like to add. when its running there is bubbly oil flowing onto the upper sight glass. i would guess an internal leak in return? maybe internal bypass? maybe i m worried about nothing?:beatsme i m thinking i have the beginings of an internal issue. no shop no heat no fun. but first i ll do what i can with the stuff i can reach.
A comment about capacities. They are only a guideline, not set in stone. If you can locate a procedure in the manufacturer's manual for checking oil level (all sorts of options come to mind - cold, warm, engine running, engine stopped, etc) use that and don't pay too much attention to filling "X gallons" in the compartment. Good advice above about the possibility of an air leak on the suction side. An easy way of checking is a spray bottle filled with a solution of water and dishwashing liquid.
thanks nige. i'll give the soap trick a whirl and mess with with the fill level. with the soap am i going to see bubbles in the case of a leak or ? seabee mentioned a charge pump. are there two pumps for this transmition? ie one in the trans and another driven by the flywheel? when i look at the unit there are two pumps driven by the flywheel. one for trans and one for aux hyd. thanks any and all for all help. steep learning curve when working on a new to you machine.
Shake your soap solution so you have plenty of bubbles in it. Spray it all over the hoses, especially where the fittings are, if you have a leak you'll see the foam getting sucked into the hose/fitting at the point of the leak.
That transmission is supposed to use Hytran or tractor hydraulic fluid and not standard hydraulic oil. I would guess that your oil does not have the proper anti foaming agents for that application. Are you having any operational problems besides the foaming oil? You didn't mention, or I missed it, whether or not you pulled the suction strainer out of the bottom of the tranny when you changed oil. There are O rings there that can allow air to be sucked in.
sorry guys been out of touch a few days. thanks for your posts. nige neat trick. i ll try that out as soon as water doesnt freeze outside anymore. supposed to warm up for a couple days this weekend. john i didnt pull any strainer out of the bottom of the trans. where do i get a hold of it? been a bit but i dont remember anything but the filter and drain plug. no i wouldn t say problems. it has some hickups indicative of a machine needing tlc. steering play pins bushings etc. should i be able to drop it in third and work? if so it wont. trans will stall.
You can use canned shaving cream to find those suction leaks too, although I don't know how frost proof it is...
As John C has indicated above if this tranny is sensitive to the type of oil and it appears to you that the machine is short of TLC then what's the betting it has the wrong oil in it ..?
hello and thanks again. when i bought the machine the first thing i did when i brought it home was change all fluids. i was having trouble finding out what to use so i phoned local komatsu. figured they should know seeing as how they bought dressers assets. no help there. so i phoned local cat guys. they recomended 32 wt for trans and hyd. so i did. i hadnt found HEF yet. i did some searching and some guys are using trans hyd some are using 10 wt or 30 wt engine oil. i dont know what to think anymore. are the original specs on line anywhere? while we re at it the cat guys said trans hyd in diffs because of the braking system. is this right? shaving cream eh? who knew it was such a versitile product. seriously though i think that concept will work just fine. probly better because it will stick to the hoses and doesnt disappear as quick?
If the local guys won't help with fluids try the guys at Modern Machinery in Kent, WA. 253 872 3500 Jack or Greg in service should be able to point you in the right direction. I've pretty sure you use Hytrans in both the transmission and axles. You used to be able to use 30Wt. engine oil in the diffs with the addition of a friction modifier but that has probably changed now. Good Luck
hello u have a 1986 dresser 520b the manual calls for 10W oil in the trans the instructions say the oil should fill lower glass when stopped then start and warm up to operating temp oil then should be between two lines in upper glass enging running in netural
That's good information, but there are 10W hydraulic oils out there, and also 10W transmission oils. Both might say 10W on the label but one will work correctly and one won't work quite so well......... Does that manual say anything about the need for the 10W oil being something like TO-2 or TO-4 specification..?
according to operator manual it states same oil as in engine sae 10W EO IH engine oil or MIL-L2104C my book also states that the hydraulic reservoir takes the same oil sae 10W also
MIL-L-2104C is a long-obsolete engine oil spec from back in the day, equivalent to API CD. The clincher is the fact the manual says use the same 10W as in the hydraulic system. That would indicate a 10W hydraulic oil. If it was mine I think I might just throw some 10W TO-4 in it and see how it goes.
thanks again for your responses. :notworthy nascar3 has the original requirements so they must be right. mil-l-2104c is basically military requirements for their oil. if you follow the spec to today its mil-prf-2104 or oe/hdo whatever weight or nato 0-237. oe/hdo means oil engine/heavy duty oil. i would say that means a 10wt engine oil. right? wrong? now thats not to say a transmition spec oil wouldn t be better. probly is as long as its the right weight. that being said i guess i m draining the transmition. i would imagine i m still ok with the 32wt in the hyd system. thoughts? too thin? if you still have that operators manual handy nascar3 could you post the diff lubricant requirement? and how do i get at the strainer john c mentioned? i still feel like a greenhorn idiot :duh but you guys are all great educators. thanks again.
MIL-spec was one that manufacturers used say 20 years ago because it was a well-recognized "brand" if you will. The days it doesn't get used anywhere near so much, more manufacturers now refer to API specs (like your CD as it was 20 years ago) for engine oil. Today it's CJ-4. I don't know of any monograde engine oil as light as 10W, usually if they are that light in viscosity they are multigrades like 0W-20 or 5W-20 or something like that, but all those "oddball" engine oil grades (if you assume that 10W-30 & 15W-40 are the most common engine oils) are pretty hard to find and most manufacturers stay away from recommending them for that very reason. Also you have to remember that "back in the day" lot's of manufacturers were trying to select one oil that could be used in every system, and in most cases their recommendations came up with lubricants that were at best a compromise. These days engines use engine oil, power trains use power train oil, etc, etc. My suggestion of using 10W TO-4 in the transmission was the fact that it has all the necessary modifiers/additives for transmission use, plus if it works correctly it would also be fine for your hydraulic system.
hi i will agree with nige on 10W TO-4 i will look for that oil for mine next oil change the straner is on lower side of trans there are 4 bolts holding a cover in place the cover has a hose held on with a clamp you must remove the diffs call for hy tran oil i think we can use TDH oil it is supposed to be for the wet brakes PS i got my books from doepkerindustrial in sask.
thanks again for all the help. books on order. oil will be changed as soon as the filter gets here and that will do it for now.