So I was about to buy an 440a with a bad tranny and swap it out with a good one I found local but was talked out of it. I am going next week to pick up a Tree Farmer C4D cable skidder instead. Good machine from what I see and am told. Does anyone know the weight of the C4D ? Searched and searched and couldnt find anything on how much it weighs. Gotta pull her back south several hours and not sure what truck and trailer to take. Any info on its weight would be of great help, thanks fellas....
I have a number of books on the C4 series at home. Not sure about a D series but will check tonight to see what I got. One of my old earlier cable C4s weighed 13 to 14,000 lbs with the Gearmatic 19 and 34" tires. Lots of combinations out there though. Which engine? Easily hauled on a tandem dually or three axle gooseneck but to heavy for the tandem single tired gooseneck.
Old-iron-habit> Thanks, would really appreciate it. I was wanting to take the 1 ton and tandem dually gooseneck to pick it up. Have pulled a 20,000 lb. dozer with this set up but only locally, not 9 hours away
My books do not cover the D series. The C4C and the rest of the older ones are in the 14,000 lb. range. As I recall the C4D has the same frame and axles as the older ones. You should be well covered with your 1 ton and tandem dually. My brother in law has a C5D with both grapple and winch and he scales out with his gooseneck and F350. He does have to having it setting just right for weight distribution between truck and trailer. You are a fair amount lighter than that.
This will be my first skidder. Is there anything particular i should look for on it before I hand over the muulla and load her up( I know to check center pins and basic mechanical operations) ?
The good things about the old Tree Farmers is that they are built pretty simple of off the shelf parts. Not sure what engine you got, most had 3-53 Detroit's. Run it like you stole it. Flat out all the time. If it has a model 19 Gearmatic it's best to drag the cable out in free spool a few times in the morning before you pull it by hand. If model 20 you are in like gold. Transfer case bearing may squeal if bad but are not to complicated to replace. The upper shaft ones seem to get abused a bit when the oil level is not kept topped off. All in all these are one durable everyday log skidder. Never had a power shift in a C4, always had a straight stick with 2 speed transfer case. The 5 cylinder Deutz engine was also good. Know of one with over 12,000 winter hours on it and still going. They start good in the cold if your batteries are top notch. Most of the guys hooked up jumpers in the morning before they hit the preheater.
Did more digging and found a spec sheet for the C4D in my equipment manuals cabinet. This a for a C4D with the Deutz and the Gearmatic Model 9. Weight is at 11,900 lbs total, considerably lighter than the older models.
Old-Iron-Habit> He said it has the Ford industrial engine in it, said it would fire on a dime in -10 degree temps. But we all know what someone says and what something is are two completely different things most of the time it seems. I just hope it adds up to what he is telling me it is as it is going to be a long haul up north to fetch it, 11 hours one direction and then back. I wont buy something im not satisfied with just because I drove a good ways to get there. Been down that road, where someone thinks you'll take it regardless just because of the time and money I have invested already. Do you think the C4D is a big enough skidder for me? I'm cutting north eastern hard woods on a daily basis, White oak, red oak, hard maple, ash, poplar, hickory and so on ? Most of the tracts I cut are on a hillside and some of them you could call cliffs
Awesome !! You posted that seconds before my last response, but didnt see it untill I hit the enter key. Thats what i was thinking about what it would weigh ! The owner told me it weighed 17,000 or so . I thought to myself that couldn't be right, thats as much as the JD 550J dozer I used to lease ! Thank you for taking the time to dig that up for me Old-iron-habit ! I owe you for sure. I looked and looked and couldnt find anything on the c4d. Not even a sales brochure like you can normally find online, found a bunch on the c5,6,7 series. This is good news as its going to be a several hundred dollar(less) difference in travel/haul expense. My one ton loaded does much better on fuel than my single axle with an ISM cummins
If it has the Ford gas engine it is probably not a D series but a C or older series. The 172 Ford goes way back. My 1950s Garret 15 (forerunner to Tree Farmer) has one. In my recollection the D series only came with the 353 Detroit or the 5 banger Deutz. The 172 CI Ford gas engine is a great little engine that will start at -30. Commonly called the Red Tiger it is 57 HP. Spend a $130.00 dollars on electronic ignition and it will pull with the big dogs. They were fairly decent on fuel but not near the speed under load of the diesels. If the skid is kept shorter they were a great little machine. Engine parts are available, blocks are becoming hard to find. The same engine is in the Ford 800 and 801 tractors of the 50s and early sixties. Also were common in clutched power units. After thought! I was thinking Ford gas but if it has the Ford diesel in it they are a great little engine in there day that started well also. Very easy on fuel. 192 cubic inches and in the 55 to 60 HP range. Like the gas they are not real fast under load but will get the job done. I have one in an antique Iron Mule forwarder but have no engine book on it. I don't think the Ford diesel was available in the D series either. Overall the C series with a Model 9 Gearmatic was a great reliable machine in their day. Make sure it has the two speed transfer case with the winch drive off the transfer case with the winch PTO disconnect lever or it is really old.
Sure curious what model the Tree Farmer turned out to be and how you made out.
Old-iron-habit> I am going next week to pick it up. I sent him a deposit to hold it and he said its mine. I am waiting because we are expecting a new baby this week, my second son ! Didn't want to drive that far from home and stay over night on the road while we are expecting any day now. As soon as the little guy arrives I'm gonna wait 3-5 days to help get him settled in at home and then im gonna drive up after it. The doc said it will be this week for sure so I'm booking a room for next week. I will let you know as soon as she is on my trailer ! But I'm sure of it being a c4d and am under the impression it has been VERY VERY well taken care of. The gentlemen im buying it from seems to be a Nice fellow and seems honest. He's taken care of it regularly. And I owe him big time for holding it with deposit until I make it up. From what I'v read and learned I believe the C4d skidder is gonna be perfect for me ! I'm getting anxious as I'v been excited for a week or two now.
Hi, I am new to the forum. I just picked up a Tree Farmer C4D. I was wondering if Old Iron Habit knows the production years of this skidder? Could you post full page pics of the brochure you posted earlier? Mine has a 4cyl Deutz diesel -air cooled, with 4spd trans, Can-Car 20 winch. I just like to know the year, etc., good specs.
Serial number is 4402-065 Model C4D Engine is a Deutz Model F4L912 (Serial Number 70020) Winch is a CAN CAR 20, Serial Number 03408 The skidder had been fixed up by a previous owner @10 years ago. It is green paint under the yellow.
Hi Viking, I do not have a serial number book to pin down the exact year but it would be in the 80s with the model 20 winch and the olive green paint. If your engine is original it should be a inline aircooled 5 cylinder instead of a 4. I can't recall ever seeing a 4 cylinder Duetz in them. As far as the spec sheet, both parts are there. I can take it to work and scan it to get it on one sheet. The previous post was a couple poctures of my Ipad so I could get the info to Timberking. That model Duetz does not like starting fluid so insure your preheaters are working properly. In good engine shape with good batteries they will start at -10F without any ether.
I will have to count the cylinders. The previous owner disconnected the preheaters just to be safe of the ether if anybody else used it. It does start instant in this weather. The scans of the spec sheet would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
It is indeed a 4cyl. The original paint is the bright yellow green.
It is indeed a 4cyl. The original paint is the bright yellow green.
You are right. The spec pictures I posted also lists a 4 cylinder. We had mostly C5D's around here. My old brain must have got hung up. The C5's had a 5 cylinder when equipped with the Deutz. My brother in law and I still have one that we keep for a back up machine.
Old iron Habit> I got her back home ! Seems to be a pretty nice skidder. Needs paint, a small seal in the winch and thats all I can tell as of right now. She seems like a tight/solid machine.
Update ....... The parking brake does not work, or im not using it incorrectly. Its just a little switch on the dash that is supposed to be switched down. But the brake pedal itself has to be pressed down REALLY REALLY hard to get it to stop or hold it on a slope and if a steep slope wont hold much at all. Can the brakes be adjusted ?!? Gonna have to get me a repair manual for sure.
Looks clean. Never had a lot of trees dropped on it. The lever on the dash should be a micro lock which is simply a shutoff in the hydraulic brake line. Simply keeps the brake fluid from returning when you release the brake lever. You apply the foot brake and then flip the lever. The brakes are normally a disc brake on the front of the transfer case and brakes the driveshaft using the gearing for leverage to all four tires because of the locked differentials. Pretty simple system. Some have a manual cable brake system on the same disc. The disc may be full of oil, not uncommon at all.
Old Iron Habit> I will check into it tomorrow as I am gonna test her out and get used to her a little before I put her to work monday. She looks as if she would be really easy to upset side to side ... Should I be timid of her on a hillside ? Or do they do pretty good within reason ? The timber jack I looked at seemed to be much wider and looked more stable.
Does this have any kind of power brake booster? I have no idea, just speculating that even oil soaked brakes should work tolerably. OIH meant to say that's a Mico lock (brand name). Obviously it holds only as hard as you can apply the foot brakes to start with, so you have to get your foot pedal working effectively for the Mico lock to work.
I am not sure about the booster just yet. I do not have a repair manual yet and have not looked into it far enough yet. Got ALOT going on right now..lol I was told that the brakes (disk) are at the back of the trans case, I haven't pulled the panels off yet but couldnt see it. I did find out the mico lock is working ! I just wasn't pressing on the brake pedal hard enough. Have you ever had a truck loose all or most of its brake fluid but you can still apply the brakes if you press them extremely hard? Thats what it feels like. But I am not sure if that's the way its supposed to be like an old tractor or weather its supposed to be like with a booster... I'm gonna look into it more tomorrow after cutting.
Hi Old Iron, any chance you could scan a copy of the C4D spec sheet and post it? The previous pics are a little unclear. Thanks
I'm not going to get to my man cave where the library of old books are kept for a few days. If I don't get it posted in a week send me a PM and remind me. Old brain is good but darn short on recent memory sometimes.
Hey Everyone, Just recently joined the forum after reading this post. I know its been inactive for awhile figured I would give it a shot. I have a tree farmer C4B with a detroit 3-53 and branden winch. I purchased it non running and with the exception of the detroit Im pretty much rebuilding all major components. I noticed that Old-Iron-Habits posted some pics from his manual on a c4D. Do you or any one else by chance have a manual, parts break down, or any information on the C4B? I have been watching ebay with no luck and any of the tree farmer dealers I have called arent willing to make copies. Besides the general information the manual would give Im particular interested in the rockwell standard rigid planetary axles which are supposedly called PR52. I tried sending a message to you via the forum but at this point im not authorized to do so. I will try and post some pictures of the skidder this week. Thank you in advance!!
Welcome Timbertrom8. I have a hodgepodge of information on the older Treefarmers. Treefarmer "books" for a certain machine only may not exist. I have parts breakdowns on 3 different PR 52s. A Hi Trac PR-52, a No-Spin PR-52, and a PR-52 Conversion to equivalent PR-67. I am going to post some photo's of the breakdown for the PR-52 No Spin, for at least up north here thats the only one I have seen in any of the machines I am familar with. Let me know if you have something else. If you have trouble reading these let me know and I will copy them next time I am in town and send them by snail mail. You can contact Braden in Broken Arrow, OK for winch parts. I have gotten parts diagrams sent to me from them in the past for use in ordering parts. The number I have is 918-251-8511 but its been a few years. They also handle Carco and Gearmatic. I see they loaded in reverse order.
Old- Iron-Habit, that's exactly what I need. Yes these are the no spin centers. Its insteresting that you mentioned the PR67. Ive located a nice deal on 2 PR67 in New York. Both were working when they were taken off the case skidder. Unfortanetly the ring and pinion are 5-30 instead of the 5-36 that I currently have. What are your thoughts on the PR67. Parts seem harder to find for these. This tree farmer was ran into the ground and then some. Ill have way more money not to mention all the time. But its enjoyable repairing it. Do you have the break downs of the planetary as well? Does you manual say anything about the Warner T98 transmission they used in these? Specifically a rebuild kit. The T98 seems popular and all my research shows it could be a Ford version or IH version but most likely not a Jeep version. Its difficult tracking down parts for this thing or even information on it in general. Three of shafts in my Cotta transfer case are over .020 out of tolerance for the new bearings to be fit pressed. My plan was to tig weld a mild filler material onto the shaft, turn down to speck and then heat treat it to proper hardness. Than this week a co worker mentioned that whenever you weld on a heat treated shaft they have a tendency to break or shatter. Not totally convinced on his statement but Im not entirely sure. Just throwing this out here...I dont want to take advantage of peoples good will and I know it would take some time and money on your end but Im willing to pay you for copies of anything early C4 model related. Its hard to believe but very few people have anything on these. Thank you for the lead on the braden winch supplies. It will surely help when I get started on that aswell. Again thank you for you help and time. Its very much appreciated
Hi Timbertron, You could try this place in Saskatchewan Canada - Doepker Industrial. http://www.doepkerindustrial.com/manuals.html My brother and I bought prints of the owner/part manuals for our C4D skidder. Cost about $100 but worth it. For you thats only @$75. Exploded diagrams and number of pretty much anything.
Hi! I realise this post is from awhile back, but taking a chance. I'm looking at a C4 with the gas engine, a newly rebuilt hydraulic winch, decent tires, no chains. New starter, and battery. Asking 7500 cdn What do you experienced fellows think? QUOTE="old-iron-habit, post: 513262, member: 33034"]If it has the Ford gas engine it is probably not a D series but a C or older series. The 172 Ford goes way back. My 1950s Garret 15 (forerunner to Tree Farmer) has one. In my recollection the D series only came with the 353 Detroit or the 5 banger Deutz. The 172 CI Ford gas engine is a great little engine that will start at -30. Commonly called the Red Tiger it is 57 HP. Spend a $130.00 dollars on electronic ignition and it will pull with the big dogs. They were fairly decent on fuel but not near the speed under load of the diesels. If the skid is kept shorter they were a great little machine. Engine parts are available, blocks are becoming hard to find. The same engine is in the Ford 800 and 801 tractors of the 50s and early sixties. Also were common in clutched power units. After thought! I was thinking Ford gas but if it has the Ford diesel in it they are a great little engine in there day that started well also. Very easy on fuel. 192 cubic inches and in the 55 to 60 HP range. Like the gas they are not real fast under load but will get the job done. I have one in an antique Iron Mule forwarder but have no engine book on it. I don't think the Ford diesel was available in the D series either. Overall the C series with a Model 9 Gearmatic was a great reliable machine in their day. Make sure it has the two speed transfer case with the winch drive off the transfer case with the winch PTO disconnect lever or it is really old.[/QUOTE]
$7500 Canadian would be about $6,000 US dollar at todays rate. It would still be on the high side here. They usually sell for around $4,000 USD for decent machines when you find them on farm auctions in Northern Minnesota. It would be nice to see some pictures and to have a bit more information about it. Does it have the divorced 2 speed transfer case under the seat with the winch driven off of it? What size tires? The 24 and 30 inch rubber worked well. They equipped some with 38 inch wheels and they were worthless. The same rear end gears were used in every one I have ever seen and machines with the 38s never got out of first gear. I have never seen a C4 with a hydraulic winch. It should have a direct shaft drive winch with a two way hand operated, brake fluid filled, two way control. Pull to reel in the cable, lock the handle open the opposite way to release the brake to pull the cable out. What make and model winch is it? If it has the correct winch and has been setting for a few years without exercising the winch, they often dry out in the control cylinders and need to be rebuilt. They are a lot like wheel and hydraulic clutch cylinders and will leak fluid on the clutch and brake linings causing them to stick and auto creep in with no load and make pulling out near impossible. Check 2nd gear to see if it pops out under load. Not unusual on a high hour machine to have second worn out.
THANK YOU sir for the information! He will be sending me pictures tomorrow. The fella that owns it is 73, and has had it for about 5 years.... He is still using it almost everyday... at his speed he says... He stated having changed the " rubbers" ? In the clutch last year so they should be ok for another year depending on the use it gets. States that the engine runs strong, I didn't ask if it was electronic ignition. States that the gears switch smoothly, and winch is strong. Selling it bc the tax man is after him..... It is an 8 hour drive...was kind of hoping to avoid that... but I guess they really isn't any otherway.... besides having a buddy in that area which I don't unfortunately... he use it gets. Only foreseeable problem he sees in the near future is one of the universal joints on main rear drive shaft " clicks" sometimes.... Model number is C4 BG.. He says it's a 1966 Has no papers for it.... says that's normal for a completely off-road vehicle....??? Just his bill of sale.
Cheap skidder here https://sunshine.craigslist.org/hvo/d/powell-river-c4-tree-farmer-skidder/6807239538.html
Looks like a Model 9 Gearmatic on it. Good winch, very user friendly for pulling chokers. Tires are not much. Probably fine for summer work if not to steep of ground. We ran 6 ply tractor tires on a early C4 like that. We bought 5 for the price of one forestry tire and never had a problem in the 4 years we ran it. The fellow we sold it to still has the same tires on it with the new spare setting in his pole barn. You can avoid hitting most stumps and pungy sticks with them small, slow, light machines if you are awake. They never had titles, Bill of sale is completely normal. That one that is shown above for $2,000 is much closer to the normal price range. Good thing its a long way from me. Them transfer cases are a simple one to rebuild. Used ones are around also. It is a long way from you though. Unless prices are double in your area the one you are looking at is still way over priced in my mind. I would look around, I don't think it will sell fast at that price. If you buy it shorten the exhaust stack or tip it back and build a guard for it. That one is prime to catch a leaning tree that's slides up the sweep and could break the exhaust manifold.
Hi Timberking! I am looking at purchasing a small skidder for my property. Like yours it is hilly and rocky in places... I'm kinda worried about the c4 stability... How did it turn out for you? Are c5s wider and lower? You mention timberjacks.... it's true they appear more stable at first glance.... What are your thoughts on this? Thank you!
Timberjack and Tree Farmer will have about the same tip angle. You sit lower on the old side seat Timberjacks so they feel more stable. Experienced operators run them up and down steep slopes and stay off steeper side hills. Going down a steep slope empty can be dicey. With a jag behind it is no problem. Be careful when winching from the side of the machine. Just be ready to et go of the handle if it starts lifting a back wheel. Try to point the back end at the jag when possible. More tips happened by running around a tree at speed and flipping the machine when the jag catches the tree than by any other way. C5 are about the same as far as tip angle. On all of them it depends on tire and wheel options that were speced on the machine. The taller tires were common here as they do better in deep winter snow. Of course they are worse on the slopes. One can change to shorter tires OK, lose some speed in doing so, but going to taller tires on the smaller machines can make them pretty power poor. The differential gears were matched to the tire size installed when new. n summery none of them are overly tipping if you use your head. Most folks only tip a skidder once at the most.
Thank you Sir!!! Yes, I can imagine ppl only make that mistake once! If they live through it! I am pretty divided on a C4 with the Perkins engine. It is frozen in the snow and ice right now, but will try to get it moving this weekend. Was the "personal" machine of rhis older fella, his wife won't let him take off into the bush with it anymore...;-) So it's been sitting for quite a few years, but he says that he starts it upa couple times a year Just to prevent seizing... Has a leaking hydraulic pump.... says he has the new seal. One planetary pin is leaking.... hopefully no inner damage Says that winch, engine, and transmission are all ok Not sure about the brake.. Looks clean from first, will know more this weekend .. Anxious to hear that thing purr!
I have tree farmer c4 it has the Ford diesel engine in it I've been trying to figure out what motor it is for sure what I found sounds like it a Ford industrial 220 but I can't find any parts or very much information on it any help with it would be great