Once in a while I come across a tree I'm not familiar with. This one fell down in the snow we had earlier this week. Looks like it might be some sort of hickory but I'm not sure. The heartwood is very dark Branch structure: Unfortunately I don't have access to any leaves...
Maple of some kind. possibly striped maple.
Definitely not striped maple, sugar maple or red maple, I'm familiar with those. It's possible it could be some other type like a young Norway maple. But I don't think maple usually has dark heartwood.
Looks like a hickory of some sort to me. Although I don't see how a hickory (the ones down here anyway) could ever be toppled by snow no matter how much snow they had dumped on them. The wood fiber is extremely tough and the stumps are a PITA to dig out.
The bark looks similar to pignut hickory that I've seen before, but I never saw what the cut wood looked like before. I wish I had leaves or fruit to compare. It broke because the wood had rotted and gotten weak. But also, sometimes snow is quite heavy.
Is the heartwood dark because it is dark or because it is wet? We have oaks here in FL that will spew water on you when you cut them. I mean a lot of water, soak your pants running, not just dripping! The wood will look different after it dries for a few days.
Bark looks way too smooth to be any hickory I'm aware of. Norway Maple bark and heartwood
Well it's frozen so no water at all came out... It's definitely dark but it may lighten up some after letting it dry for a little.
That must be a young Norway maple, there are some nearby but they are mature and the bark looks like Ash. Young trees can have significantly different bark than mature trees. pignut hickory winter, tree, id, identification, bud, twig, pignut hickory, red hickory, carya glabra www.portraitoftheearth.com I'll try to examine the buds and branch structure more closely and see how it compares.
We have some kind of oak here that has a lot of sap. Its not very good fire wood we call it water oak.
I call it bitternut. Lumber is indistinguishable from Pig Nut. It is a hickory. Excellent firewood, or beautiful cabinet wood or flooring. Hard as stone. High quality boards are rare as an injury to a single branch will cause a strip of rot all the way down the tree. I find many are split, I presume freezing when moisture is high. I once had a large number of trees, but many got the cankers, (little balls of growth ranging from golf ball size to tennis ball size). I cut many trees for firewood.
Our water oaks makes excellent firewood, after drying. They burn hot and slow.
Good to know, thanks!
I have burnt a lot of it dried out but it didnt seem real good.
Looks like pulp to me
Very true!
If you have a smart phone, download an app called PictureThis. I have used it for a few years to help identify trees and brush I didn't recognize or know. You can take pictures of the bark, the leaves, the branches with buds, whatever, and it will scan its database to find a match. It has worked amazingly well everytime.
I have a similar app called Plant Net but it's not very accurate sometimes. Maybe I'll try that one.
Thats white walnut if soft. If its hard it's a hickory of some type. That is if it were here in NC mountains.
Thanks for bringing this back up, I had forgotten about it. Almost missed my opportunity to get a picture of a leaf before they all fell off. The leaf looks like hop-hornbeam but the bark doesn't. Maybe it's a different kind of hornbeam. Doesn't really look like a hickory leaf to me. My app keeps telling me it's a maple based on the bark...
How hard was the wood?
Hmmm that was about 9 months ago... I don't remember it being any harder than other hardwoods around here but I didn't do a Rockwell test on it haha
I was in the logging biz for 30 years in NW North Carolina. I swear I think it's a butternut walnut, or aka white walnut. They are really rare and usually grow at higher elevation than black walnut here. I would have to see the tree in person to be sure though. The leaves eliminate hickory for me, at least any I am familiar with. It looked like nice lumber!
Definitely not butternut. We have a few of those left around here and this was harder than that, and different bark and leaves. The more I research it, I think it's some variety of hornbeam or ironwood.
What people call iron wood here is harder, or at least as hard as locust, and the bark looks nothing like that. They don't get very big either. Maybe 8 or 9 inches at the butt. But iron wood is a slang term im sure, so it probably differs here and there. It may be the iron wood of your area. I really don't have a clue if its not a type of walnut. If its a hickory, its a type I have never ran across. I live and work at 3,000 feet and up. I can drive an hour east and there are trees that grow there below 1,000 feet that I can't identify.
Wait! That's Shad Plum. Any Hickory has compound leaves. Bitternut & Pignut have nuts round as a ball, sharp as an awl.
Hop hornbeam, "hardhack" has a very flaky bark. Trees seldom grow more than 8" diameter. Not a tall tree. Hornbeam, "Blue Beach" is another tree seldom grows very big, even smaller than Hardhack. Blue Beech has smooth bark, but sinewey under the bark. I believe Blue Beech is hardest wood in VT. make mallets from it, wooden hinges, cutting boards.
Black walnut, Juglanis Nigra is ?resinised? heart wood will NOT rot. Butternut, Juglanis Blanc is very similar, but no resistance to rot. Butternut is a common tree in VT. Many stain butternut to look like Black Walnut. It was very popular for wall paneling. My parent's house I now own has a room in butternut.
There are none of those trees here. Not even the butternut. Some people just call White Walnut, Butternut Walnut. That tree in the pictures probably doesn't grow here. But the bark and the wood really resemble white Walnut. I can't honestly say I remember what the leaves look like. Hardly ever run across one, although black walnut is fairly common. But every few years I would cut a couple.
I'll see if I can find any nuts or seeds on it
No visible nuts or seeds that I can see. Who knows what this little guy is?
American Elm. They grow like weeds in Illinois. Dutch Elm Disease killed all the big ones many years ago.
You got the first half right
That kinda looks like European Chestnut
You got the second half right
Could be American I suppose, I have only seen a couple live with leaves. They only get about ten feet tall here and then they die.
It is. It sprouted from a chestnut from a nearby American that a chipmunk buried.
My grandfather was born in 1906. He used to walk all the way across Rendezvous Mountain (you can look it up, its an NC State Park now) every morning to Parsonsville, and cut timber with a cross cut, axes, and log with oxen, and walk back every evening for 2 dollars a day. Probably late 1920s. I think by this time they were dying. But he said some of them were so big they didn't bother, because a team of 6 oxen couldn't budge the first 3 or 4 logs cut off of one of those Chestnuts. My dad was born in 48' and he said growing up they of course left the windows open at night in summer. He said that you could hear those trees crashing down almost every night from where they had died.
Your original tree is the downy serviceberry, (Amelanchier arborea) sometimes referred to as shadberries like WillieB said. I've got several on the property mostly along the creek. Are your trees loaded with small white flowers in the spring? They've also got that freaky smooth twisted bark. If so these are your little wooden friend. Found a book in the trash when I was a garbologist, Readers Digest- North American Wildlife. Two close friends also have same book we refer to as "the book of things" any time there's a tree, wildflower or critter that needs ID out comes the book of things, usually dead nuts on.
My father didn't have a book, only word of mouth knowledge. He called Shad Plum. First tree to blossom in spring. When the Shad plum was in blossom it was time to fish Otter Creek. Catch your limit of wild trout if they were blossoming. I look at the mountainside from Route 7, can spot perhaps two dozen trees in blossom, well before other trees get leaves.
I'll have to look for it in the spring.
You talking bout this book I have right here?
Chestnut is claimed to be extinct. My brother in law found one Peru/Londonderry VT. He described it as a 10" diameter trunk.
There were two about that size (planted) on the property I found this. Both of them caught the blight, several years apart. I cut the second one down two (maybe 3) years ago and it keeps sending up shoots from the stump.
Yep, Mine doesn't have the dust cover, but the green book beneath is the same.
You can find them here in NC as well, but they are rare and they die at less than ten feet tall. There is a place in VA trying to grow a blight resistant American Chestnut. They are making progress but it takes years to measure your success in tree growing.
My grandparents ordered a lot of Readers Digest Books. They had that book when I was a kid(im 48 now) and it was such a good resource I hunted my own copy up about ten years ago.
Roy Underhill was master housewright at Historic Williamsburg. He talked about Chestnut stumps sprouting, growing several inches before succuming to the disease kills them all.
Blooming in October as the leaves fall off. Who knows what kind?
Witch-hazel?
I need help identifying a strong tree I can hang myself from lol It's been one of those days.
I suggest 2 cold beers to alleviate that "gotta hang myself feeling" suggesting any more adult beverages than that would be promoting alcohol abuse according to what the sawbones tells me regularly.
Yep
If your wife won't point one out, there is hope for tomorrow.
Mrs. B will have one tonight & tomorrow. Me, #1 son Seth, #2 son Zachary, & a few extra sons will be together. Three/four dogs, an unknown number of daughters in law, two grandaughters, 2 & 1 YOA will be there. Antique tractor pull, Seth "hosts". This disjointed family makes it work. No chance to catch my breath between tasks, a Hell of a lot of fun! Preparation, & clean up are a three day event. Thank God for my family!
Have one right outside kitchen window and several more around property. Chick I dated years ago pointed them out and schooled me as to what were. Pixie beat me to it in the other thread. And yes mine are all blooming with the little yellow flowers (late fall). Also looking out front window while typing, noticed one of the serviceberry trees you inquired about earlier. Don't have to wait till spring flowers to ID. This time of year foliage gets pretty deep red/burgundy, give 'er a gander.
Unfortunately the tree is basically bare already.
Yeah sorry, just came in to edit previous post. Leaves and bark on tree out front window similar but leaves not jagged on ends, trees down by shop bare as well. Should have looked closer before posting. Oops..
Any pictures of the event?
Here, (100 mile radius), if you pull antique tractors, you are a member of a family, or you've been adopted. My younger son Zachary told me about these great people Dave & Liz Danforth Capen. I later learned I am 2 months older than Dave & we were in High school together. My family was adopted by theirs. I've always had or wanted old tractors. My sons have encouraged that. I once explained to Dave Capen: "I don't want to win, I don't want to stop so early." Seth & I each have 1941 & 1940 International Farmall M. Mine is stock, air in the tires. Seth's is weighted. I pull a 1500 LB boat with 9 750 LB blocks. Seth always moves 14 blocks, sometimes 16. Dave Capen sold his 16000 LB Detroit powered 1959 Oliver when he had health problems. He's back to the two cylinder John Deers. They suit him. We don't have a scale. We still keep good track of what a tractor weighed last time it was on a scale. End of day, four tractors still involved, weight ranges from 8,000 Lb tractors, to 15,000 LB tractors. Cost of tractor ranges from $2500. to $50,000. The last pull is in question. As expected, the 15,000 LB Oliver won last, A 12,000 Farmall 400 20 years older nearly bested him with half the horsepower! Operator skill matters! A good time was had.
Three generations;Me, Zack, Charleigh, (Zack is Charleigh's uncle)
Looks like so much fun!
As the day progressed & the boat got heavier, this tractor had three drivers. Daughter, mother, then father. It was still in it at 26 blocks (21,000 LBS)
Not this year, One day all the heavier wheel tractors weren't there. This was me moving 24000 lbs to the end of the track, nearer to storage site.
Charleigh & Daddy setting another block on the boat.
Seth's first pull 12 blocks, If I recall he pulled 16 part way down the track. His tractor is about 8000 LBS. He pulled 13500.
@Willie B that Farmall 400? in post #63 is in neat condition. Someone has given that some loving along the way for sure. Classic Firestone US looking tyres if I remember correctly.
Dave Eclund has many IH beauties. Said he came with the lightest so he could pull it with the little truck. Other pulls closer to his home he might field 5 of the most beautifully restored IH tractors you could hope for. & yes skill is important in these smaller tractors, iron weights help also. Late in the day Dave hisself added 200 LBS to the seat, & the front weight rack carried all the iron it fit. Front wheels touched ground only to steer, & just above idle engine speed. Dave Eclund & Dave Capen have similar technique, excess power makes wheels slip.
What's the best way to plant this so that there is a good chance for it to grow?
https://plants.usda.gov/DocumentLibrary/factsheet/pdf/fs_mapo.pdf There lists a way to get the seeds out. Irc you can get some saplings mailed to you cheap. I've never grown them but they are all over here and nearly a weed
I'll bite. What is it?
Looks like osage orange....
Careful what you wish for. Osage orange is notorious for sending up suckers as they mature and infesting entire fields. Osage orange and black locust are both horribly difficult to get rid of when they get established in an area. We cleared out a strip of trees dividing two smaller fields so we could put a pivot on them. Mostly cherry, but some black locust as well. The darned locust sent up suckers for years. Mow them down, plow them under, spray every concoction you could, but new suckers kept coming. We would spray that field post emergence of the corn. It would burn off any standing suckers, but come harvest, there would be 8ft tall saplings about the size of your thumb where they pushed up as fast as the corn did. Osage orange has a long history of doing the same to pastures.
Yes it's an Osage orange that I picked up at my aunt's house in Michigan. We have locust around here in some areas but no Osage orange that I'm aware of. Vermont is not in the range showed in the USDA map so I don't know if it will survive here. The worst invasive we have here is Japanese knotweed, and beech is next.
I have weed mulberry that is terrible on suckers too
We call that hedge round here, my friend's aunt melted their liner on the chimney cause she loaded the box full of it. Her husband told her we only put a couple of those in with the other woods, that one pile of wood is labeled for just that reason
Good for making bows.
I believe in Normandy in WW2 hedge (or similar tree bush fence) was blocking tanks and they had to drive straight through to make passable holes
The bocage hedgerows of Normandy video 2019. Steep dirt & stone banks topped with brambles, thorns, brush and trees. About an estimated 60 percent of the WW2 number of hedgerows remained. The number of hedgerows decreased from 15 per kilometre (1093 yards)in 1944 to about 11 per kilometre (today) in the areas of historic action, as farmers have made fields larger for modern equipment. Variety types. The deep sunken narrow cattle tracks (infantry only), sunken slightly wider tracks,(infantry only) sunken single lane dirt tracks (tanks) and then paved hedgerow tracks.(Trimmed once or twice a year by machinery now). WW2 - Had to use more than tanks to make the way passable at times. The infantry had clickers etc. Bocage Hedges of Normandy video.
I'm not educated in siviculture, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express. Used to get a day off from high school by volunteering for the US Forest Service Manchester VT. You pick up a lot of information working with these people. Also, my unofficial Grandfather (neighbor) worked for "The CCCs), then became a forester for USFS. He too was generous with knowledge. Among many questions I have no answers to is; Why do certain species not grow in certain areas. Vermont mountains aren't all particularly tall. Red & White Spruce grow plentiful on mountains, but are rare in valleys. As a teenager I tried to transplant White Spruce on my parent's lawn. After many attempts, one finally lived. It grew to a size it overpowered the house, I had to cut it. It seems the Osage Orange would survive our climate, but I'm not aware of any here.
Spider oak
That is an aggressive amount of shake for such a small tree. Half of it goes into the sapwood.
How do you figure that happened, lightning strike, wind shear? Would hate to take a chainsaw to large standing tree with that condition. Yikes.
Rarely any visible heartwood. Blue Beech (Hornbeam) is the hardest wood I believe grows in VT. an 8" diameter tree is very rare. It grows often at the edge of a cleared area where a short tree gets some sun. Great firewood, small tree, It takes a lot of them. Hop Hornbeam "Hardhack" trees get bigger, another great fire wood. Hardhack was used wherever you needed extreme strength in a pole. Might prop up the timbers in your cellar, push rods for a homemade snow plow.