Hello All, I noticed in the Maint. Manual that I purchased for our CAT 345BL that it talks about over-greasing and it can be bad. I never really thought you can over-grease and if you did you would just be wasting grease. Can you technically over-grease and what can happen besides using more grease then what you need? (2) We were using the CAT Desert Gold Grease, but changed over to the CAT Blue Multi Purpose Grease that is not so expensive. Any recommendations on grease besides CAT's blend(s)? Thanks for all the help in advance, Rob in AZ
The only way you overgrease is if its possible to push out a seal. Slewing bearings on excavators come to mind. I was told by an oil company engineer years ago that ninety percent of the work that grease does is exclude water and debris. You put enough in to push out the water and dirt and you should be just right. Everywhere I've been, pinned joints were always greased at least every eight hours. Slewing bearings were every couple of weeks and if working under water, every other day. Don't have any recommendations on brand or type. Whatever was thick and sticky and cheap is what we used.
I've heard the "you can over grease it" myself, don't know to what degree there is truth to that, and I ain't gonna challenge the thinking. I'll only add my thoughts; when your talking pin/bushing joints, too much grease "might" be a problem...but not enough grease is for sure a problem. I think I'll lean toward too much grease.
For a 345 the only thing you can overgrease is the table (slew ring). If you put too much the grease pools and then breaks down due to the shaking of the machine (think jello kinda action). Otherwise when you pump it past full it will just puke out the ends of the pins and drop gobs on everything. Not exactly pleasant but not hurting anything on the machine. The only time you have to worry about overgreasing is when you start dealing with grease seals (forestry comes to mind) where the extra grease coming out the end will push the seal out and let all that nasty woodchip/bark/dirt mixture in the end of the pin. Rule of thumb for greasing "just right" is listen carefully. You will heard a snap/pop sound as the grease pushes the last of the air out. Just a tad more after you hit that point and you should have grease poking out somewhere on the pin end. That's when you know you got it.
Hey All, Thanks for the advice and tips. I believe we are doing everything right then. We do listen and watch for the grease to pop out the ends. The minute we hear the grease pop, we add just a tad more and stop. However, even though we do this, after about 4-6 hours of operation you will see some of the grease coming out. I guess this is normal since the grease is getting hot and breaking down. We normally grease about every 10 hours of operation, regardless if we work it hard or not. When you mention the Slew Ring ... I believe I know what you're talking about, but just want to make sure it's the same spot. Please explain if you would. Thanks, Rob in AZ
All i know is i bought a case of that red grease. I do not like it. Seems thin. Takes for ever to get anything full then there is grease everywhere. The old plain black grease was about two pumps on each fitting. Anyway it will be awhile before i buy the red stuff again. The machinist i trust; claims you can overgrease a bearing.
I know as soon as I say this someone's gonna prove that I'm wrong, cause I'm just lucky like that, but the slew ring's grease fittings are the three under the boom between the base of the boom cylinders on a 345, so if you're standing between the tracks looking at the machine with the cab to your right they should be right in front of you. That's all assuming I know what I'm talking about for once ointhead:drinkup
Hey Jim, That was my understanding also. There are three grease zirts there, one for the front and two for the sides. It was my understanding after reading the maint. manual for this unit you need to grease those zirts in four positions, 12, 3, 6 & 9 O'clock. This is what I have been doing, but maybe we are greasing them too much. Seems like a bunch of grease is rolling out ... Comments? Rob in AZ
You only put in a couple of pumps and then turn the house 30 to 60 degrees and put in another couple of pumps. Then rotate the house a couple of times in each direction and you are good to go. Machinists worry about to much grease in high speed bearings. Think ball bearings in motors or pumps. Too much grease in those and you get lots of heat in a big hurry. Heavy equipment with pin and bushing joints are a very different animal.
That's correct , high speed bearings on rotor shafts on flail mowers , mulchers etc. can fail if they are over greased . The rollers or balls slogging around in all that grease overheat and fail . As far as pins and universal joints etc. I like to see the old grease with it's contaminants pushed out a little .
The zerk fittings can be found in several different places,depending on the manufacturer has been my experience over the years.Some machines have three fittings,each 1/3 of the distance from the other around the circumference of the table.Those should be greased with the machine stationary.Others machines have a manifold in one place with three or more fittings plumbed into it for convenience.Again,machine should be stationary while greasing the table fittings at least. I have encountered two other configurations that I can remember and one is the Caterpillar 200 series excavators.Their fitting(s) are actually in the cab on the lower right near the lever for the swing brake.There are two fittings,one for the table which you grease while rotating the house as many degrees as you choose for each grease application and the other fitting is for the pinion bearing I think.Technically this was probably a good idea but I never cared for the grease in my cab to contaminate everything it touched. The last one in memory was some of the old Case excavators had an aerosol can of lubricant mounted in the cab that was plumbed to the table which required you to activate as you rotated the house to lubricate their hardware.I noticed that the can had the Case logo on it which suggests that it might have been a dealer item.Ron G
This talk of greasing the slew ring reminds me of another grease point that gets neglected. The slew ring gear and pinion. There's no grease fitting, you have to remove the cover on the table between the boom cylinders. My Hitachi dealer recommends Texclad 2- it must be good at over $20/tube. I put on nitrile glove and wipe the ring gear every 1/8 turn of the house. What I've never understood is the manual says to check the depth of the grease at the bottom. What does that mean and why is it relative? Rob
You want grease to keep being pulled into the pinion gear as it turns around the ring. The pinion tub is flat under the pinion gear but slants away a little and hold grease to basically fall into the gear way after the pinion passes by. I like to use a thinner grease for the pinion just because it will flow back into the gear way. Many people use a thick grease but as it ages is tends to form up a cavity that just sits. Over time you start to feel a rumble as the house turns through a certain spot but you have greased the ring gear religiously. I've found lots of dry pinions causing that rumble.
our old timer machanic explained to me why not to over grease a slew ring when i was young. The EX450 i was running went into the shop for a 1000 hr. service. When i got there, he instantly knew i was over greasing it(oozing out everywhere). He said too much grease will stop the bearings from spinning, causing them to get flat spots. Makes sense to me:beatsme
Yeah, anything but the CAT brand. Times are tough.
My old man was a good one for grease, he just loved it...everything you went near was covered in grease. He always said if grease is coming out dirt isn't getting in. But the old boy seemed to spend most of his life covered in the stuff Lol...drove my Mum nuts. I do know you can over pack some wheel bearing with grease..to the point the bearings will fail. I've seen this first hand with over enthuisiastic greasing of trailer bearings....and yes...it was the old man.
Haha, I would never recommend CAT grease to your wallets. This is not fact, but as long as you are greasing your machine daily then it doesn't really matter what "brand" of grease you use. Its simply sticky to not so sticky you could say, if it needs a special type of grease then it will say, but for everyday bucket pins and what not any grease will do. Slew ring zirqs only need about 5 shots a month, like it was previously stated "turned 60 degrees and 5 more shots" This is what the Cat mechanic said, and its done us good for now. The only way to really tell how many pumps to grease your machine is to do it. Say you put 30 in on day and its pouring out of certain pins, then do those pins at 20 instead and see if it comes out. Over-greasing doesn't work everyday pins but it can make your machine look pretty nasty if you use 2 tubes on it a day. I do believe a tube of grease is 400 shots of pistol grip style guns.
Most place I've worked for use lube master grease. Its seems to work well.
The more grease the better I like it. Depends on your working conditions. Dry and dusty is the worst. If you are running a new machine with perfect seals, then ya, go less grease for sure. For me with worn pins, I grease mega every 4 hrs. And I give the bucket pivot 10 shots every 2 hours. Slew ring gets lots too. I can't believe TDOZER, that over greasing the slew ring would stop the ball bearings from rotating. Can you imagine the pressures on the balls on the slew ring?. How could simple grease cause these loaded bearings to stop turning and get flat spots on them? I think the most important thing on greasing is to use EP (extreme pressure) rated grease. Once a few years ago, I ran out of EP so I used some white lithium grease, and within a day, twisted and broke the main pin on the stick. I learned to always use EP.
i always get the bucket and stick pins every day and the boom pins and all the rest of the fittings and turntable every other day...anything more is just grease falling on your windows, and just for the record i use the cheap red grease (just what the company buys us) seems to work pretty good though :my2c
Does anybody use a moly grease? I just started using it and it only cost another 30 cents a tube. Unfortunately we haven't been working enough this past season to see if it works better...
I use moly grease for the jaw bearings on the crusher, and errol white grease is quite a bit different then normal grease. If you read your excavator manual it will/should show you how many pumps per zirq and 10 cents to 1 it is says its a bad idea to overgrease your slew. I grease at the end of everyday, now that I'm crushing I try to grease most when its operating to get the grease all the way around the bearings.
I have had a EX 120 spit out its seal. Not sure if it was over greasing or not. The dealer sold me a roll of seal and some super glue. Our machines never get buried that high since they work on developed platts. Seal's still in the box.
Can you really over grease something that needs Grease .....:naughty:naughty:spaz:spaz:shf
I think it's better to use Lithium based without molybdenium for your crusher bearings. Molybdenium disulfide is a very hard and very slippery material and is great for pins and bushes but if the particles are to big it can damage your bearings. Also stay with the grease intervals stated in the manual , because the bearings can overheat with to much grease in them. And stop the machine when your greasing ,be safe! (the grease comes in anyway) Better to go to the bearing shop then to go to the limb or finger store. Remember , conveyors are killers trust me on that. :my2c
Another reason I overgrease as SQUIZZY246B said about his Dad, to keep the dirt from coming in, but also to check on the color of the squeezeout. If the squeezeout is black in color, then that joint gets more grease, if it comes out red, then whoa, back off. Ultimately, all my joints have a hint of red in the squeezeout which I agree is messy, but keeps me happy. The squeezeout on my slew ring is coming out black, but you guys have me convinced that I may be overgreasing, so maybe I'll back off a tad on that one.
I understand where you are coming from nl1cat with the fingers and what not but the nipples are not in a dangerous spot where I could become snagged because they have remotes on them. When I say I grease while in operation it is at the end of the day all the time. A jaw bearing is not the same as a normal bearing, it has a layered seal, 200 shots for each and after awhile a little will seep out, if you see grease coming out of jaw bearings it means the seal is full and there is no room for dirt to get in. Moly grease is sticky, thats why the company chooses to use it, it all has to do with pricing and in the end profitablitly but I you do raise good points. Also a heat gun is good to tell what your bearings run at - heat wise. That is what I do anyway, it may not be the right way but it seems to work.
I still wanna know where RobVG is getting grease for 30cents pj
That was "another" 30 cents per tube....Additional....Higher....More....above normal... $2.35 vs $2.65
oh, lol. yeah i got it now.....the tightass side of me focused in on the 30cent's.....i was gonna start ordering my grease from washington Pj
grease help!! Running a m 318 and the previous operators I guess did not grease because there are 4 fittings where the sleave spun. Can those be drilled? type of bit? Thks
First off do not claim to be any kind of expect and also realize terms may be different here so may not be correct on my question. Realize there could be some other red grease I have not seen. The only "red grease" I have seen is high temp grease. It will ball up in low temp uses such as low speed bearings. Even had this conversation with my tractor shop and parts guy Saturday. It is only for high speed bearings such as spindles so I have been told and based upon my experience seems correct.
Diesel don't quote me on this but but I believe what you have to do is order a new bushing and just replace it. I wouldn't re-drill a new hole because the bushings are made of such strong metal. You can order new bushings from your dealership. From what I've been told anyway.
ok thks I will let the mechanic screw with it
My experience with greasing has been right and wrong at times. But my understanding is as others have already said here. Overgreasing caused sealed parts to leak and leaves in contaminants. I pump pins and bushings until i see grease. The swing bearing, swing gear and pinion are different. Our last machine,from New Holland has only one fitting on the front, under the lift cylinders.I was told to put 5 pumps at each 90* of turn for the bearing every 40hrs(wet or bad conditions would be 1/2 that).The other fitting is on the pinion cover. This cover or box,holds grease and forces the pinion to feed it into the swing gear.I was told it was sealed, but not told how much to add and when.I add 6 pumps every 40hrs. The grease in the gear area only keeps a film on the gears to keep rust(contaminates) from forming and pitting the teeth(reduces noise).I guess if you grease something like a pin, and you hear that dry noise you haven't put enough on. Sounds and feel should let you know that things are OK. I'm not a big lover of grease hanging off things that get on your boots and track into the cab....
I'd like to second what NL1CAT mentioned. Moly grease is truly good for hard metal to metal sliding situations but should never be used on ballbearings/rollerbearings. The moly particles (nanosized? I don't remember but really small) that makes such a good job of helping things slide will actually hurt the ball/roller bearings in the long run.
Im so glad i found this place...this will help me a bunch....an maybe throw some thoughts ya'lls way as well.....on my job sites there was always that arguement on how much grease to use...an now i think i was right, by tellin tha fuel guy that he was jus wastin grease....oh an makin a huge mess all over my machine....that usually finds it's way to my windshield....good posts ya'll
If you actually look at the manufacturers recommendations for greasing (at least for Cat and Hitachi), it's downright scary. If I greased according to the recommendations, I would be afraid of prematurely wearing out the machines. Especially as one moves up the boom towards the machine body, the grease interval times increase. Loaders are similar with long recommended intervals for greasing big pins and center swivels. I would rather grease more often and have a bit of grease squish out than wear out very expensive parts of the machines. I'm only guessing, but I suspect that manufacturers like long service intervals because it helps sell their products. Long service intervals also brings work to the dealers' service shops, where a lot of dealerships make the big bucks.
I usually put 3-5 shots , unless it's a sealed thing . like u-joints and such. I may just put 1 in if it oozes grease..... nothing like pumping 2 or 3 bucks on the ground.. bigger pins may take a dozen or more to see the ooze... I think the AT's have a joint that says 50 shots... I had a real jerk of an equipment foreman at one place 5 shots everyday every zerk... a real pain for a rubber tire backhoe loader. when we didn't use the backhoe but maybe once a week... so everyday I more or less pumped 1 tube of grease on the ground .. the boom was black from the grease... I'll grease but come on... I"ve seen guys put 4 tubes on a 270 deere... way too much I think A skid steer... I may grease the bucket pins 2 or 3 times a day... just depends on how bad they start talking back.. oilers that come around ... I've worked on jobs where it's a once a week deal... machines there sure did alot of talking... I think he was suppose to do it daily.. because he shoot til the joint was blue with grease... he was just using/wasting his weeks worth of grease in 1 day..
Do any of you guys know why a John Deere 160 LC breaks the rotec (slew bering?) mounting bolts? The broken bolts are on the bottom flange on the back of the machine? Are 160's prone to this or is something else wrong with it? (Like the bearing failing?)
When i was running a Deere 200C LC, the Deere mechanics that did our on site service told us to only grease the slew ring every 250 hours to keep the seal intact. Over greasing it just creates a place for dirt to get in unless you continue to consistently over grease it from then on. The company I work for now just took delivery of a brand new Cat 320D LRR and a couple of Cat reps stopped by to fill in the operator on all the features. They told him to only grease the slew ring every 250 hours as well. But, they said when doing a repetetive operation for a long period of time like trenching and bailing your spoil to one side, that you should do 3-4 full revolutions every 3 hours to spread the grease around and prevent any dry spots on the slew ring. Just what I've been told...
This is 100% correct! This is from pretty much EVERY manufacture I'm aware of today. Too much grease will push out those seals and then you're forced to over grease it endlessly...which makes a giant greasy mess! Or you can spend 10's of thousands taking the top off the xframe & resealing it??? : ( Just had this conversation with a customer yesterday about the lack of grease on a machine I showed him. He's greasing 2 times a day "Man if you don't you can feel it in the seat...I don't care what the manual says. I know because I run them all day!" Yep...at this point he's right. He's blown out the seals on all his machines and that's the only way to keep lube in them as there is no seal left. : ( That's a tough conversation to have with a guy because none of them are worth fixing at this point...and not reading the manual has put him in this bind. He's sure this machine is under greased because it wasn't everywhere & the oil was at the bottom of the stick on the slew motor stick.
You can put a new outside seal in the bearing without pulling the house. You just need to be small, flexible and extremely patient.
I'll take your word for it. : ) I'm 6'5" & weight more than I should...so that's NEVER happening.
Logger Wade on youtube posted a video replacing that seal.