need to look at better options than a 6 ft pipe on the end of the 1" breaker bar for undoing sprocket bolts etc, happens to be on the D85 today. I have a 1" drive electric impact wrench but thats not enough, I have never used or seen a torque multiplier, I see there are 1" drive nut cracker units for around $100, does not seem to me that for that much money you would get something that would last with the torque needed to undo these bolts, but that why I am here. We have a torque wrench big enough for our needs to do them up, but what should I look for to undo them???
In my last few pic's in Shop Talk you will see 1 of my torque multipiers being used on wheel nuts, this gismo will snap them off if they dont undo with little fuss or strain, in general the multiplier will undo fasteners in a very controlled smooth style, the gismo in the pic is 1 1/2" drive out with a 23 to 1 gearing, it makes easy work of pig bolts, I also have a 2"drive out with 32 to 1 gearing that is fitted within a fancy frame to ether jamb in or chain down, but it is a heavy chunk to handle, I cannot recall what I paid for them only that they were bought second hand, they are not everyones needed bit of iron so the price used is low.
I thought where is shop talk, scrolled down and found a whole new world of forum sections I never new existed!!
we paid $400 for ours, its magic. takes wheel nuts, track bolts ect off easily. Had it for over a year and showing no signs i breaking
Torque multiplier is good, but a RAD wrench is even better ........ made in Oz too. http://www.radtorque.com.au/products_pneumatic.php?sub=11
Yep, Shop Talk is full of interesting subjects. I think this topic is better served in that Forum, so I am going to move it over there.
Nige, those "Radar Guns" are realy outside the scope of the average spanner mans piggy bank, bala was looking for something to use in a small way, I myself have never had any trouble sorting rim nuts but I would think 1 of those "Ray" guns might not fit the ticket here, I also have the "Weapon" well 2 of em' that seem to undo dogged up rod end nuts without to much agro, I will post a snap of 1 being used asap, these "Weapons" undo CAT, Koma, and all the other rod nuts that I have tried without any fancy £-$ being spent.
When i started here 6 months ago they did not even have a complete basic hand tool set, the only compressor was a small direct drive unit, same as most people have at home, I have spent more in the last 6 months on tools for here than i think has been spent in the last 5 years, I was given a budget to spend on tools and while I have been careful with my purchases I have not looked at my expenditure compared to the budget, i will just keep buying essentials until I get told to stop, he he, But Nige as much as I would like a unit as you posted, i am not even going to price one as i know i wont buy it, I bought a 1" electric impact gun that probably raised a few eyebrows but saftey soon sorts that out. Nickbowers could you let me know what brand you have so I can follow up on it?, I could go $500 odd easy enough, then what the 1" impact gun wont get that will, and then I take out the pipe on the breaker bar altogether
You may need to go a bit more than $500. I'm pricing a decent 6:1 multiplier (1/2" Square input - 3/4" square output) at around US$900, and an 18:1 unit (1/2' input - 1" output) at US$1800. The 6:1 unit will give a maximum output torque of 1200ft.lbs, the 18:1 will give 3200ft.lbs. IMO 1200ft.lbs. might not be enough for what you are wanting to do cracking difficult to turn fasteners like on sprockets and you'd probably be running the risk of breaking it. That would leave you back where you started using the tried & trusted 6ft scaffold pipe. I'd suggest to make a justification for an air-controlled RAD wrench on the basis of safety, time, convenience, and anything else you can think of. You never know the management might just go for it. What have you got to lose..?
I bought a Cat torque multiplier off Ebay for $450 a couple of years ago. I think it's 6:1 and puts out 1600 ft lbs. I haven't found a bolt that I couldn't get loose yet. It has an input-output scale on it that's pretty handy for torquing down bolts.
Best $75 I ever spent was on my Swench,model 750---800lbs. torque from a CL ad. 2'' head on bolts on my old 440JD track loader with a gazillion coats of paint over them and were never taken off popped loose the very first time when the Swench did it's magic. Originally made by Curtiss-Wright--our military bought them for tanks and such.Here's a link to them and there's always some on Ebay used.Powerhawk now sells and services them taken over from Cat I believe: www.powerhawk.com/products_swench.html
That's the one that sells for about $900 new. You got a bargain there if it was in good condition.
A rad gun with that much power would be scary here, I had trouble with the guys using the electric impact gun not knowing which way they were trying to turn it, at least it does not have enough power to do them up and break them, and yes air rad is the ideal, not electricity etc but these guys are rough on gear and training is slow and painful so simple is best. They are bloody hard workers though. As with a lot of things we buy you start off thinking X$ will do it then research tells you you need to spend a lot more!! I just need to determine a brand and model that will definitley do the job so I can price up and then I will work on the funds.
Bala, I have some good junk for undoing fasteners going up to 2"square drive, the more common stuff I use is in the 1" to 1"1/2 sq drive sockets, these can be costly items just to put on the multiplier, the workshop budget would be getting a hiding on the nut undo task, I nearly always fit new fasteners on rim segments so burning the old bolts off is often the fastest way of sorting a crap job, the tightening up side might be better value to the tool store, as I use heavy torque wrenches more often than the multiplier, the common 1 I use is scaled upto 1'000 ft lbs, I know you can put a small torque wrench into a multiplier and calculate the setting, but its to much bother it cannot be the common thing to do, Nige loves his "Ray Gun" and gets good use out of it, but I am thinking he did not empty his pocket to buy the gizmo, ( Nige I cannot help myself.) if things are tight coin wise keep looking on f-bay and get an 1"1/2 drive output multiplier, then fit a stepdown adaptor to 1" drive output, then you will have a nut scaring chunk of Iron that will do the task.
In my defence I will point out that my "Ray Gun" as TC calls it has paid for itself many times over just in running up track shoe bolts we do without even considering the GET hardware. I'd say it's a unusual day if we are not using it somewhere. Currently our 7 x D9/D10 tractors go through track shoes every 600-750 operating hours. That's approximately 1 tractor every week for re-shoeing. 364 bolts to torque to 2000ft.lb. every time. Do the maths. GET on a 994 bucket there are 25 wear plates and a total of 120 bolts to do up to as near as 2000ft.lb. as makes no difference. 3 loaders each one with a change about once a month. Cutting edges on D9/D10/834/16, etc. It soon adds up. Plus etc, plus etc. The thing I really love about the RAD wrench is how simple it is to use.
I only have 5 machines and the D85 is the last getting new undercarriage parts, we are not drilling at the moment and the machines are only working a 5 day week 8hrs ( so thats about 4 hrs work a day) doing a bit of general civil work, if we dont go back to 24/7 operation the undercarriages will last at least 12 months so minimal large bolt action, but still something that is needed. i like the look of the swench style, no braces to set up etc if i am reading correctly, looks just like using a ratchet, i already have 1" drive impact sockets.
The Swench is unbelievable as to what it will do, I've twisted bolts for thirty years and never heard of one until about a year ago. Needed to get some blades bolts loose on a side boom brush cutter and didn't have my big air wrench with me when the owner said he had something that would break them loose, I thought he was crazy when he brought that out. About four or five pulls on that thing and they came right loose. A four foot cheater on a 1" break over wouldn't budge them. Also a little pricey though.
looks that way! not saying they are not worth it.
Nige, I know you are busy as hell and the "Ray Gun" is a front line must have, but cost wise things have to be justified, I dont think Bala's few rusty bolts is on the same scale as your workshop throughput, those Swench things look interesting, but I have no use for 1 myself as I never realy struggle with nuts and bolts, I struggle more on getting paid after the job is done. keeping up the U.K. end. tctractors
if the silly bugger had used the nice new 1" breaker bar I got them, with the pipe extension, instead of the 3/4 drive bent slide bar then I would not even be thinking of this. I have now sleeved the extension pipe so it fits snug over the breaker bar and there is supposed to be two of them on the bar unless it slips. but they dont listen, I just have to make things as foolproof as possible. After 6 months of lecture i now rarely need to remind someone grinding to wear saftey glasses!! So i dont actually have a problem getting the bolts undone its just that we are working hard to improve the OHS here so in the end i need to get rid of the special tool " 6ft pipe" that goes on the on the breaker bar
When I was in the service we had a Swench wrench great for breaking lug nuts loose, and such. I have owned one for years, only use it a few times a year, but sure is nice when needed. It does ratchet, to tighten you turn the wrench 180 degress as they are double sided. Not something you want to carry around in you pants pocket, though.
That Swench wrench looks like an interesting tool. I've heard of them before but never used one.
Some info I found from Catapillar, http://www.hastingsdeering.com.au/h...ns/Safety_Bulletin_No_7_Torque_Multiplier.pdf
Bala, that not from Cat, it's from a Cat dealer in Australia. A an example of CYA. I remember the original incident on a BHP property about 10 years ago IIRC. I probably still have the Incident Report somewhere. Basically the guy using the multiplier was being a tw@ and deserved everything he got. Cat are still selling the smaller torque multiplier by the way and IMO it's perfectly safe if you use it as it was designed to be used. BHP - the company that won't even allow the use of a sledgehammer on their properties ...... IMHO big Aussie mining companies are at the back of a large part of the safety bullsh!t that has hit the industry over the past decade. And they don't have a corporate sense of humour either ........ cnuts ......!! http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/a/-/wa/9569682/planking-poster-riles-bhp/
this is what i have, they have come down a lot now and are only $165 plus postage. http://spannersupplies.com.au/products_2.html SPANNER’S “Nutcracker” pumps out an amazing 5000Nm of torque, working at a ratio of 68:1,
I was thoroughly expecting to see a pic of my X wife and all I got was ''under construction''.No price either.
Trust me,a used Swench is just as good as a new one,just without the glitz.The trick is to follow the directions and use an Allen key to release the spring pressure after each use.I have the model 750 now but if I find a nice 1000 with 2K ft.lbs.,I'm going to get one.There's always a few on Ebay and sometimes the military surplus boys sell them.
http://www.toolworks.com.au/vp1121h...-4-female-sq-drive-socket33mm-1-sq-drive.html Heres another place with the price, What I will do is get one of these, and then if it breaks I will have proved its worth and go for a better one. Thanks for all the info and discussion guys.
Let us know how it works out. I may be interested in one as well. It would be good to hear a report from an unbiased user.
Buy a just trucks magazine because if you buy it off the people posted above you get a free 1" socket set for it aswell. Tonight i will scan and upload a copy of the page if you want.
I bought one of those just before Christmas, great tool!! 78.1 ratio takes Volvo loader wheel nuts of with no effort!! Had a customer ask me if i could take of wheel nuts on his low-loader trailer, he had a 12' pipe on them and no movement at all! took them of no problem! Only thing is they have no ratchet maganisim so when they are under load if you let go they could break you have, i did it and thought my hand was broke, can still feel it!!!! Long term i dont know how it'll hold up but time will tell! Aiden
I can be pretty sure, nope i am positive, we dont have a newsagent on the island, the only thing i can buy on the island I can get at camp for free
from cps above This snippet from the post by cps popped into my head a few days ago, there is no point me getting one of these to replace the pipe on the breaker bar, it will get my boys for sure! I will need to go back to looking at the childproof stuff.
The Swench is basically a manual impact wrench, does anyone know about a gear reduction ratchet wrench, I've seen one years back that was about 5 foot long handle and had a gear reduction unit in the head that was about 10 to 1 reduction, but it never held the torque in the head like the Swench but was basically just a ratchet head, does anyone still make one? I've got torque multipliers, but those have the reaction handle you use along with a square drive ratchet or breaker bar. I've been looking for one for years now but haven't found one, even a smaller one. As they say everything has its use and need, I've got impacts, both air and electric, torque multipliers, but not a gear reduction ratchet.
Best track bolt removal tool I ever used was an Ingersoll-Rand 1 1/2" drive air impact wrench. If they don't come off with that, it's smoke wrench time. Cat D9-10-11, the IR worked well on all of them. New, they are expensive. You have to have a lot of use for them to pay for the beast. They work well on any large overtight bolt or nut, but do make sure you and maybe a helper have a good firm grip on the thing when you pull the trigger. Otherwise, you might wind up going round and round before you can let go. It's happened to me. The newer torque multipliers are a great tool, but, also expensive, and slow to use. The big IR is much faster.
Friggin 1 1/2 drive sockets are expensive. Ive got a multiplier with a 1 inch in and 1 1/2 out and have paid upwards of $400.00 for individual sockets. they dont break though.
Price in Australia for 1" radtorque, $8400,
And worth every penny I can assure you - provided you have enough work to keep it gainfully occupied.
Its about the safety more so than the problem of getting bolts undone, while my job is to run the workshop, it is also to train the local staff, and we are improving safety. It took me months but I now have the guys wearing glasses grinding and drilling without me needing to remind them!! We now have a safety officer, fill in incident reports etc. So we had an injury from a lad standing on a pipe on a bar to undo truck wheel nuts, he slipped off. So I introduced the 1" electric impact gun and 1" breaker bar with a length of pipe that would undo most any bolt without needing to stand on it. Then a lad hurt himself, and he is a qualified tradesperson, from using the length of pipe with a ****** bent 3/4 sliding bar, instead of the 1" breaker bar, it twisted out of his hand and dislocated his thumb, so not good. So i had said I was going to purchase a torque multiplier but as they can wind up and let go that is not suitable, as these guys will make it happen!!, A big air impact gun will work but is heavy and need a 100cfm compressor. So option left (as far as I can see) are swench type tool or Niges ray gun. I can see swench type tools are still a lever so if you need to use an extension and have a worn bolt head then slipping off is still possible. Can I ask Nige what your ray gun is like to use, is it hard to hold when under load etc, is it childproof to use. Remember these guys do not train easily, they do not listen or dont process the information I give them. I really need to find the best option available that has the least chance of someone being able to injure themselves. I had a toolbox meeting one morning, I spent 20minutes on two subjects in particular, one was to use the tyre cage pumping up splits rims, that afternoon 2 staff were pumping a tyre outside the cage, another 20minute talk that morning was on not being near, under etc a machine that was running, that afternoon, a supervisor was refitting the blade to a dozer, he was operating the machine with 3 staff in between the machine and the blade to line it up. So it is a struggle, I have tried the common sense approach an now need to submit the most foolproof option to undo bolts, then its up to my managers to decide. So while i would be happy using
You don't need to hold the RAD gun at all once it is engaged and the foot is locked in place. You just set the tool in position, open the air valve slowly and wind the tool around until the "foot" bites on whatever solid piece you are using as resistance. At that point the guy who was holding the tool in place steps back and the guy driving applies full air pressure to the tool. At that point, off she comes, or on as the case may be.
Oh dear, one guy holding and one driving, remind me of years ago some guys built a tandem motorbike, the one on the front steered and the one on the back had throttle, gears and brakes. I will need to read the operating instructions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGBDorRAzXM thats what i had in mind
I can not get You Tube onsite so i have downloaded a coupe of videos to take back with me.
Company i used to work for had one of these norbar ones, Great tool, i loved it, would love one now but just cant justifiy a new one, and s/h are like hens teeth! This video show how to set it up etc! http://youtu.be/wNNIFiU_lSI Aiden
Bala--you do not need an extension at all to operate a swench .The swench does all the work by itself.
Why don't you just get some new guys instead? Some won't learn.
I was meaning if you need to use and extension for the socket, not a bar on the handle, but any of these tools have dangers. I will try and get more info on the swench and the ratchet type torque multiplier. It would be better on the machines and more productive to employ who you wanted but is not possible, if you want to mine you can can only bring in workers from another country if there is no one that can already do the job, and for training, it is very involved. so my job is basically to train people to do my job, so i am not needed. Operaters, trades assistants etc must be all nationals and preference to locals first. My workers live in grass huts, no electricity, running water etc. The award wage for a trades assistant is about 1.10usd and hr, trades person perhaps $5 . I have a national electrician who is good at anything, ac/ dc, gensets, refrig, i would employ him in Australia in a heart beat,his contract rateis $9.80usd an hr. and all of them for that money they often bust there asses, if you are there to keep them on track they are bloody hard workers that will give you all they have, they make mainstream workers look ordinary. So these guys deserve the opportunity, Its just a bit of a long hall, that is why this is appropriate often:Banghead and I need one that show my head going bald from rubbing my hands on it trying to decide what to do
Bala, check if you can get a RAD wrench with a remote trigger assembly, so that you don't have to hold the tool itself while operating it at full torque. Failing that you could always install a ball valve in the line so that it was a "hands off" piece of kit. I would point out that the RAD wrench rotates very slowly so that even if it jumps or slips it will not tend to fly in the way a torque multiplier would. I have the same issue regarding pay. Our mechanics are on something like $5/hr.
http://www.ntah.com.au/ These guys hire out tools and manufacture long snouts for RAD guns (to torque your inner rims on haul trucks) These things are 100% safer than any torque multiplier, the RAD34 is good for 3400lbft! once you've done a set of dozer edges wil one of these you'll never go back, only thing we couldnt use it for was track gaurd bolts on a D475A-3 which has minimal clearance we'd have to get a hydraulic head and power pack for
The nut splitter is as the name states, only good for cracking/splitting nuts. Now to ask a loaded question; "What type of grease, or magic slime has been applied to the fasteners before the assembly?" Molybdenum Di Sulphide in a powdered form is a metal with the highest load carrying capacity. It is black, and will stick to your skin, but when mixed with a good grease, and applied like it belonged to someone else, it does seem to help. Applying heat to the bolt heads, may help to "crack" any rust that has built up. Then replace with new bolts. Shining the threads of used bolts on a wire wheel/brush before a good greasing, has helped also. Keeping an old tap to decrap the holes is a way to eliminate some problems. Good luck, Bob
I'll only say that if you use any sort of friction reducer like moly paste and you are torquing the fasteners then you need to reduce the torque by approximately 50% or the fasteners will break - guaranteed. If you're using something like copper anti-seize compound the torque should be reduced by about 20-25%. Unless specified in the repair manual I'm always wary of using anti-seize compounds for the above reason. Usually you will find that in critical areas like sprocket segments, track shoe bolts, and roller/idler cap bolts the installation procedure generally calls for some type of anti-seize. In that case use the specified torque and have at it. If not then the idea is for the bolt to have just a very thin coating of a light (e.g. hydraulic) oil. The torque figures given are based on a lightly-lubricated thread.