Something I've been wondering, can you use a "commercial vehicle" for private use without a USDOT number and IFTA sticker? Situation in question is this: I have a Class 7 medium-duty truck + 11-ton pintle hitch trailer, registered at 40,000lbs gross, that I use for my construction business. In VA we don't need DOT numbers, or any markings on the truck whatsoever if we stay in state. I also stay within 100mi radius of home, so no log books or any of that. Literally all I need to drive it is the CDL in my pocket. I do have a current DOT medical card. Three situations I'd like to go out of state with it, first two I'd consider personal, not for commerce: 1. Hauling my equipment to my property in NC, to do work for myself. 2. Hauling our jeeps/4wds to trail rides in another state, could be in NC, TN, KY or WV. 3. Picking up a purchased piece of equipment, this is where things could be considered interstate commerce, depending on the intended use of the equipment, IDK? I can't find anything specific in the laws that address these situations, maybe some of you know off hand? What do I need to be legal, and even if I am legal how much grief will DOT give me if they pull me over? Any insight is appreciated.
You do not need a DOT# for personal use. Your scenario #3 would be the sketchiest. You would probably need to be able to prove your story on the side of the road though. A friend of mine was helping a lady in his church move from Nebraska to Michigan a couple years ago. He had to get the Pastor of the church on the line on the side of the road near Omaha to convince the DOT man that it was not for profit.
If it’s registered to a business and has business insurance it’s gonna be hard to convince that officer it’s personal use even if it’s hauling your personal stuff. They’ve heard every story and excuse in the book. Should it be that way? Nope. Even though is becomes a federal thing being interstate travel each state has their own little quirks.
call the DOT in NC and ask the guys. They will not bite your head off Seriously they will give you the lowdown on what to expect and what they expect from you.
Leaving the state will have many challenges. Maybe, even with your insurance company. Your MSC-150 will have to be updated to interstate. It will be very difficult to convince the creeper cops that you are not engaging in commerce.
Sounds like on the Federal level I'm ok, state level maybe or maybe not... My business is a sole proprietorship and the trucks are registered in my name. I do have commercial insurance through Farm Bureau however, and it does cover me regardless of what state I'm in. Also I don't have an MSC-150 on file, never needed one since a USDOT number isn't required in VA. The only guy I know that's gotten in trouble for not having DOT #'s going between VA and NC was in industrial salvage and moving items back and forth with his pickup and gooseneck. Best I can recall he had the DOT #'s on his larger trucks but didn't realize he needed them on the pickup (or thought he could get away with it.) Got the numbers on the truck and all was well. With that being said, I did some reading and NC does require Intrastate DOT numbers on all "motor carriers" operating in state. I guess that's where you'd have to be able to prove it was private, non-commercial use. Sounds like it may not be worth the hassle
And then call them the next day and get a different answer, next week call again and get a different answer. Rinse and repeat until you get the answer you want.
Slightly unrelated, but the DMV is even worse when it comes to heavy truck stuff, it's amazing that DMV and DOT have such a discombobulated relationship within the same state. I went to switch a truck I recently bought from farm truck tags to regular truck tags so I could use it in the construction business. For some reason this crashed their system and no one knew what to do. The issue was the fact the truck was bought as a farm truck, with no sales tax paid, then I wanted to switch it to a regular truck tag (also no sales tax since it's over 26,000lbs), but for some reason this wasn't possible. After much discussion between the DMV ladies, a couple calls and emails to Richmond, and an ever growing line of impatient customers behind me, they couldn't figure out how to do it. I gave up, will just have to let the current registration run out and start from scratch.
I won't bother with a reply even though I've been in the trucking business 48 years, you see I've been told---I don't know ****.
Well I'D still welcome a reply, regardless of what whomever may have said. Although it sounds like most are in agreement, private use of an otherwise CMV isn't worth the hassle. Looks like I'll have to go rent one of those damn dump trailers I like so much and pull it behind my pickup lol
From the FMCSA web site: You are required to obtain a USDOT number if you have a vehicle that: Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; Your International Flatbed truck should have a DOT number on it and GVW weight on it. Once you have the DOT number, might as well put it on you other truck. Sorry, can't remember your other truck. Was it a Ford F700? What's the IFTA sticker? As you are a business, probably should go ahead and do it.
Not necessarily here in AL. If your truck or truck and trailer weigh 26,000 or less and you operate intrastate then you do not need a USDOT. I had to get one when we bought our L9000. Up till then all our trucks and trucks + trailers were under. Motor Carrier Safety Unit | Alabama Law Enforcement Agency www.alea.gov Helped a good friend of mine that works all over the state out of a ticket from an overzealous state trooper that wrote one of his 3500's with 10K lb trailer up for no USDOT#. Combo was under 26K and he operates only in AL. Got out of that ticket as he should have.
Based on the GCWR in the post above, he needs to get a number. His combo is far over the 26K.
And he's not in AL.
Well another way to look at it is, why not put DOT numbers on your truck? These days, many people think contractors are a bit "Sketchy". Having your Company name on the side of the truck, maybe a phone number, and DOT number makes you look more professional. I have even gone so far at times to add other safety stickers on the truck with stickers that say fire extinguisher in cab, watch for wide right turns etc. I even have yellow flashers on the truck. This isn't always to please OSHA and State Patrol, but to help with business and make it easier for me to do business. I had a fellow contractor once ask me why I had the yellow flashers in the rear. Beside making it safer for me, I told him those were my screw you lights. Like when I double park the truck and blocking the road for a bit such as when unloading. If you look like a homeowner with a big truck in the way you're a jerk. Throw on the flashers and now it's "Construction" going on. No problem.
Our lack of tort reform in Alabama keeps me from putting our names on the side our trucks. A commercial vehicle is an easier target for the slip and fall types that live off lawsuits. Can't go a mile down I-65 without seeing an Alexander Shunnarah billboard advertising how much he sued a company for. Which is ironic enough that we did the site prep for the building he calls his HQ. However we have installed yellow flashing strobes on both our small trailers and 3500 flatbed for the same reasons.
Alabama trucking sounds both fun and interesting. Makes me want to grab my CDL and do Gulf Coast heavy haul and eat Bama BBQ pork ribs. Long Haul Paul told a story about Alabama trucking and politics. Wallace didn’t want no scales and he didn’t like the tolls. Your Govna’ said “keep the people working, let those big trucks roll!”.
USDOT number is not required in VA if you stay in state, regardless of the weight. IIRC we are one of only 12 states that do not require it. At the quarry you’ll probably see less than half the trucks have a DOT number. About the only ones that do are from large companies that work in multiple states. Many have no markings at all including some very nice, new trucks, most of these belong to local contractors. I’ve never had the need or desire to put my name or phone number on the side of my trucks, but thats just me, I like to keep things clean and simple. As CM1995 pointed out sometimes it's better to just blend in.
Unless changes of recent, in Illinois you don't need DOT numbers unless traveling out of state, or your pulling unit is three axles or more. Then it's required. I always had the numbers on the rollbacks as they were hauling for hire, and did operate interstate. Apportionment licensing also. IFTA made it much easier on the office work as we fueled in each state adequately from basically the same stops. Out of all the years, and with one exception from a smart aleck driver, there were no problems. Several of the citations were resultant of his mouth and were bartered down and/or dismissed; as was the driver which played into the equation. Some of those cops running DOT enforcement are just like you and me; ordinary folks doing a job. You present a cordial and professional appearance, keep the ears, eyes open, and mouth shut, it goes a lot easier. Of course not having any gross violations helps too.
Years ago I loved hauling cattle across those southern states. In Alabama if I was under 85,000 lbs would just hand the scale master $25 and keep on truckin. IIRC we bought 30 day 'harvest permits' that let us go 84-85,000 lbs in mississippi and louisiana for a few dollars. Hell I wouldn't even think about crossing a scale up here in Iowa 5,000 lbs over gross cause it would cost you a weeks wages.
Most 1 ton pickups are going to be like that, there's a lot of people that have one ton pickups and haul kids around.
Huh, ne er heard that one before. Even many 1 tons are over that. I've run 1.5 and 2 ton trucks for years and never had it come up. Had no idea even.
Commercial use. You can drive your kids around in all the truck you want without a DOT#. Any truck or combination weighing 10,001lbs and up must have a DOT#.
Not in AL operating intrastate. A DOT# is not needed until the truck or combo gets over 26,001.
Well, in WI anyway . . . What I stated in the previous post is the Federal Interstate regulation. Many states follow the Fed for intrastate, including WI. My authority in WI is intrastate only, I think I need an MC number or something to run out of state.
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There has been much confusion about who is required to have a U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) number. Many contractors feel it’s only needed for truckers hauling for hire, which is not the case. A USDOT number is required for a commercial motor vehicle ( 49 CFR Part 390.5 ), which is defined as any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate and/or intrastate commerce: to transport passengers or property when the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 10,001 pounds or more, whichever is greater; or to transport more than eight passengers, including the driver, for compensation; or to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, without compensation; or to transport material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 USC 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C. The USDOT number serves as a unique identifier when collecting and monitoring a company’s safety information acquired during audits, compliance reviews, crash investigations, and inspections. The following 31 states have laws agreeing to the enforcement of the federal USDOT regulations: Alabama , Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. The other states have state-based USDOT regulations (similar to federal OSHA vs. state OSHA regulations). Many think that the USDOT number does not apply here, but lack of enforcement does not equal “not applicable.” It is a federal regulation, and it applies to all subject commercial motor vehicles. Vehicles that require USDOT numbers must have a name and USDOT number on both sides of the vehicle’s power unit, in a contrasting color, and visible from 50 feet away when parked. Currently, there is no cost to register for a USDOT number. You can visit www.safer.fmcsa.dot.gov and select the “FMCSA Registration and Updates” link to register. Up to you if want to get it. I find a DOT number is a real pain for doing the yearly report, biennial report, Heavy highway tax, weigh stations, insurance, GVW tax, CDL class A, and a medical every two years. I'm not a carrier with a bunch of 18 wheelers. Just a one man contractor. Amazing how an 85 year old can go buy a class A motorhome and tow a car behind and need nothing.
Very good PeterG, I posted the reg 7 years ago---Lets see how long it takes before the backwash begins.
If you read the general applicability it only applies to interstate: So they define a CMV as interstate and intrastate but the regs only apply to interstate. Because the feds can only dictate what happens between states, not what goes on inside of them (in this instance) When you use a CMV for personal reasons it's no longer/not yet a CMV. The hard part is finding people that understand that. What most people don't get is that a vehicle can change back and forth. So given the above, a vehicle can be a CMV intrastate but if it leaves the state for personal reasons it's no longer a CMV and that CFR doesn't apply From the title of the thread and the OPs first post he's not driving a commercial vehicle except maybe in example 3
I never found the paperwork that cumbersome, nor the medical certifications. The two year medical was $48.00 for years but this last year it increased to $53.00. I only had five trucks running at one time so not that big of deal. Never licensed over 55K so form 2290, or HUT did not apply. I exited that market in 2006 and keep my CDL, and medical current at all times. Too damned hard to get them back nowadays.
Bingo. That's why the State of AL does not require a DOT # and it is completely legal to operate a commercial vehicle less than 26,001 GVW or GCWR inside the state.
And why it's so damned confusing to so many. Many variances to the laws in different states traveled. In many instances it's better to just have the DOT number. My insurances require it, but that is because of the corporate structure involved although I'm not currently running trucks. Still keep my number however because of the discounts involved.
In Wisconsin running any kind of commercial looking truck (chassis cab pickup with any kind of a work body on it and up) without a DOT number turns you into a State Trooper magnet.
So I need a dot number to drive my 1 ton when I have a pipe wrench in it?
In Wisconsin, yes. If you are just an employee, probably not. A quick look at Oklahoma's regs appears to be similar to Alabama's, according to CM. In that case your 1 ton is not a CDL vehicle. Pretty sure your service rig is over 26,000lbs though . . . Oklahoma Highway Patrol Troop S - USDOT Number USDOT Number information from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) www.ok.gov
Especially if you're towing an excavator or construction piece of equipment. If you have a commercial vehicle which your insurance agency will tell you, and it's only to tow your RV or Boat, I wouldn't worry about a DOT number. If your truck is a one ton dually or bigger, if you're not a farmer, and it has a flat bed or dump box on it, set up with headache rack, transfer tank, ladder rack etc., and has a wheelbarrow in it, tools, left over materials, and some old beer cans, I would get a DOT number. If you are towing a 5th wheel trailer with a few cars, a trailer with a GVW over 10K and equipment over 6 tons, I would get a DOT number. Ultimately if you get in an accident is where things get crazy without a DOT # etc. Regarding searching for answers on the Internet regarding USDOT, beware that there are lot's of Companies that are out to make a profit selling services that you can often get for free directly through the government agency. Their information may or may not be correct. One site I just looked at seems to say that there is such a thing as just an Alabama DOT. See a web site for Call Diesel Permits at (765) 742-2610 . Get an Alabama DOT number/AL DOT number/State of Alabama DOT number/DOT of Alabama number/DOT Alabama number/DOT number/USDOT number
It's a privately owned 1 ton just like someone owns a car
Up to you what you want to do. I would say if you don't own a construction related business and only pull with your truck a non construction related looking big long trailer such as (RV, Boat, Horse, Race cars, ATV's. snowmobiles, and maybe farm material and equipment), then don't get a DOT number. If you pull a big equipment trailer with construction equipment and or materials that look like the size of a backhoe, than having a DOT number might be a good idea, as that can be a red flag for a State Patrol guy checking weight, CDL, tie downs, etc. If you never ever see a State Patrol, police officer, and never go on the highways, or go out of state, don't drive far maybe don't worry about. It's your choice at the end of the day. All were trying to do is educate as we can the DOT regulations which are not all that clear.
According to Wisconsin State Patrol racing is a for profit endeavor; you are racing for prize money. They actually set up a bust at a race track a while back and red tagged most of the guys coming in. I think at that track at least they won't let you race if your hauler doesn't have a DOT number.
This thread is still running? Well ok. Let’s keep this party going. We can run up to 13,999 lbs commercially until DOT numbers are required. Thanks to the commercial fishing lobbyists and abundance of one-ton DRW flatbeds running around.
And the fact I was a sign painter years ago--throw this on the heap. Everyone can Micro this. * https://www.permitsplus.com/downloads/fedReg390.pdf
As I understand it, Racing cars in Wisconsin need a DOT number on the race car as well as the racing class gvw. Drivers are required to have a class B CDL. LOL