How much dirt would you say a D8 could move in a day that involves a 300 foot push
having to rip or not rip?
What kind of dirt? Loose or compacted? Are you going to push level or down hill? What blade is the D8 equipped with?
Its an old coal mine site where they cut a hill out to make a level landing and now DEP wants to return it to its original condition.It is not virgin earth.It is safe to say it will be up hill (~2-6%).Probably be a standard blade.I could probably attach the plans off of the CD Tomorrow when i get in the office. IT is not a big landing,probably 300x600.I figured the CY but I cant remember off of the top of my head.
Where in PA is the mine? What outfit are you with?
300' X the depth, tell me I went to college for nothing
Not going to say, who know maybe I am bidding against you,ha,ha
Reuben: Nah, the company I work for only does transportation, just was wondering, figured only mining companies or heavy/highway guys would have the iron available to do a big reclamation job.
Solveson Contracting Inc. is the name of our company. My Dad has been is business for 30+ years and my brother and I have just recently started attacking bigger projects. We have been bidding against a company from out your way called Clearwater construction (from out in mercer),We are also Penndot prequalified for doing highway work. I have no problem figuring production for excavators and related machines but I am not 100% confident in production rates for bigger dozers. Maybe because there is more variables?
I have the CY that needs moved.The depth varies as does the grades and contours,not that simple to figure.The grades and contours will be shot with a total station.As builts will need to be produced also.
Oh you guys are out of Emporium. I love that area, do a lot of fishing and bear hunting up along Sinnemahoning. I know a guy who used to be number 2 at Clearwater when they were under another name, we didn't get along, I worked with him at PJDick/Trumbull, he was pretty cocky. If you ever need a civil engineer PE on your staff, let me know, I'm moving to DC this May, gonna work on a project on 495, $1.6 billion contract, I'm not too excited about the traffic or the headaches, so I'd love to stay in PA. Whats your bonding capacity? Are you mainly an excavation contractor or do you do paving/bridges and the like? I understand if your bonding capacity is confidential so you don't have to answer.
My brother is a civil engineer so we got that covered. As far as bonding goes We just changed our bonding companies so we really honestly dont know yet,as a matter of fact I have to go to our attorneys office when I am done here to get the paper work. We are a GC. We do mostly site work and related. Amazing enough the past year we have been doing tons of environmental work. Looks like that is going to continue this year. Bear hunting is definitely great up here.If you do the math there is more bear killed here per square mile then anywhere else in pa. as far as Clearwater goes,they are doing that bridge down in driftwood right now.They just started monday. I know a guy that works there might be the same guy you know (S.M. are his initials)
2000- 2500 yds
~92,500 Cy
Now that's some serious production for a D8 per day
ha,ha opps...thats how much I need to move,sorry 'bout that
Hoo boy! Production in lots of cases has more to do with the operator than the tractor. Plenty times I have pushed more with a D8 than the wannabees on a D9. In these parts dig and drift techniques seem to be pretty much forgotten (or never known) .
Scrub Puller, I agree the operators skill level makes a big difference. I'm not familiar with dig and drift techniques, can you explain?
I think Scrub puller is talking about leaving a "windrow" of dirt on each side of the blade for more capacity on a long push.I will be conservitive in my figures on a D8 moving dirt 300 feet in a day.I'd say 1500 yards.
He might also be refering to steering with the blade by tilting the blade in the direction you want to turn. Ive always known what 25c is talking about as "pushin slots", or "slot dozing."
I never herd it called "slot dozing",but it makes sence.Its the only way to get production from a dozer on a long push.They never did say what D8 or type of blade it had.How many yards would a D8H with a 12 foot semi-u blade move in a 8 hours pushing 300 feet stumpjumper83?I was guessing 1500 yards.
25c, I think a reference to cat's performance handbook is in order... that being said I don't have one. I think your close though, maybe alittle low, but I'm use to being around R & T series machines w/ semi u blades.
Yair....Hi fellers. I'm a newbie with this computer carry on....just spent half an hour typing out a reply about "dig and drift" dozing and the site told me I couldn't post it. I'll see if it accepts this and try again tomorrow
Volume question: slot dozing... all you need to know. I could be mistaken, of course, but I think grunk36 and myself invented the technique... but then, maby not... LOL OCR
Yair.... but "dig and drift" involves more than just pushing dirt along a slot. It's been around since the days of cable blades and tow behind rippers... and no matter how you're pushing now you'll push more with dig and drift. In over forty years of teaching blokes how to scratch around in the dirt the biggest problem has been to convince them to have the blade FULLY LOADED within a couple of tractor lengths of starting on each push. No bloody point in starting out on a four hundred foot drift if it takes eighty feet to load the blade. Unles you're in sand or loamy topsoil that pretty much means the cut has to be well and truly ripped. Within reason time spent ripping is never wasted (just because you CAN dig it with the blade doesn't mean to say you should). Once the cut is ripped, line up with the fill and back one tractor length onto the ripped area, start forward and drive the blade in to the FULL DEPTH of the rip, bulge that piece out and then back out and bulge another slab into the hole and continue through to the fill area. All material is different but it won't take long to figure out how big a bite to take. Once the drift is estabilished keep it absolutely straight and once the tractor accepts the load and starts to boogie push the blade control into "float". Anytime the dirt is moving on the blade means the cutting edge is biting a tad and sucking horse-power. You don't want that on a production drift, the dirt pretty much should sit there like it was in the bowl of a scraper. To summarise:- the main elements are to keep the slots clean and straight and to take out each floor of the cut to the full depth of the rip. The theory there of course is that the blade is mostly loading downhill and it's relativily easy to bulge a wadge of material out into the slot. In addition the cutting edge and tracks are working on the firm surface or interface between the rip and the next floor. This allows for maximum control and traction. There's lots more of course but I'm nerping on a bit for a newbie. If anyone is interested in operating techniques I can continue with the thread.
Was #2's initails R. C. and the company U--- T--- R--- ?? :drinkup
Scrub Puller: Welcome to the Heavy Equipment Forums. You get creds for a great post but we will have to take some off for being a banana bender.. Make yourself at home. I'm no dozer man but your method sounds a bit like the way I cut and fill on bigger sites with a loader...matter of fact....it sounds like the same way you'd dig a trench with a shovel:cool2 (God forbid)
Yair...thanks for the welcome Squizzy246B. I enjoy the pages and hope to stick around a bit. Been off the gear for a while now but can't drive past a job without pulling up for a squizz. I see a lot of bad stuff happening.
scrub puller, whenever someone tells me of a different way to be more productive, I try to listen, and if it sounds good, try it out. Compared to some around here I'm pretty green. So here are some questions for you. 1. Most of the time when I see slot dozing done, the ripping is done for the length of the cut. Your way does make sense though because that leaves better footing for pushing. I do like the idea of loading the blade quickly. And I'm assuming that you work the cut front to rear to achive your downhill cut. 2. Pushing with the blade in float. Another operator much better than me told me that when backdragging with cats, 7's are marginal, but 8's and up the blade weights too much and the weight of the blade will cut in and be counter productive. If what he said is true, wouldnt the weight of the blade going foreward cause the blade to bite in, and overload the dozer, if the blade was in float? Anytime I've done it I just left the blade in the normal position and tried to keep a level flat slot.
Anytime I'am moving dirt over 200' with a dozer I'll get my slot sides up high enough to keep the dirt within and then I'll push a blade full about 3/4 of the way to the fill and back up and get another blade full and catch the first one on the way. I have never done a Time study or yardage figure on this method but if the dirt is rite and good traction can be had it sure seems to speed things up to save on backing all the way just to get a single blade full. I can load the blade in 1st gear and carry in 2nd and when I get to the 1st pile I pushed the dozer will hardley even slow down when it comes to the loose pile. A down hill push really makes it nice. The 92,000 yds seems like a lot to move with just one D8. Sounds like a good job if the money is rite, Dirt in Central Ohio is going CHEAP. I don't think the drifting part would work so well here with our clay as it is a fight sometimes to keep the blade from sucking in. Will have to try it this year if I get a big push job. dpull
Yair...Guday stumpjumper38 and dpull. I thought the "pushing in float" statement may get a bite (grinning). Can't do it all the time of course, it depends on the material, but in suitable conditions, you will feel the tractor "loosen up" and maybe gain a few RPM. It seems to be a more natural order of things to let a fully loaded blade do its thing. For sure. I always start at the front and work my way back into the cut. That establishes the slot in the cut area and the slot across the fill builds up as you go. You can have issues with site bosses and compaction crews and what all on the embankment but at least you can run your cut the way you like it. Then there's the blade. I'm talking proper angle/tilt blades on a "C" frame. I started out on general contracting in western Queensland and in the late 1950's you would'nt get a job out there with a straight bull blade. Iv'e always preferred the "C" frame set-up, and, despite what the Cat. production tables tell us, I reckon in the real world (apart from rock) there's not a lot of difference between a nice tight angle/tilt and a sloppy bull blade you have to chase around the paddock. On long drifts the slots are a little wider with the angle/tilt and it allows more room for material to fall off the side of the slot and not get jammed up in the walking gear. Keep on pushin'. Who backdrags?
Back in the 50's Scrub Puller, If you started in the late 50's we are not to far apart, Its good to hear of some older skinners getting on board. Got to be some Letourneau storys some where in you background. dpull
Hey guys and gals, what a cool site this! This is my first post . . So many variables go into what a dozer can push that I won't even try to guess. But I firmly believe in Scrub Puller's "dig and drift" technique. I call it "cut and carry" slot dozing. Here are a few more basic slot dozing tricks: Always start at the front of your cut and work backwards building your slot as you go. You might want to make a rough pass from back to front to establish your slot first. Only back up far enough to get a bladefull and then carry (drift) it through the slot. I never use float but if it works for ya go for it. Cut in 1st gear and carry in 2nd. Back up in 2nd when you can do it smoothly, always ride the decelerator while backing up in rough conditions. If the material is hard or rocky keep leaving a "cusion" on your slot. Never carry across unripped rock or rough native ground. Even when pulling out big boulders you almost always generate enough fines to leave a cusion under you through the slot. Just cut deeper as you feed the slot and then next pass slowly back through the cut area and run some fines into the hole. Never run through the slot without a full load, release anything less than a full load in the slot and go back for more. Don't keep cutting through the slot to keep a full load, it's slow and leads to a rough ride. If you have to rip, only rip enough to get a single bladefull. You may have to fan out and funnel into your slot so as to have room to rip effectivly. The bigger the rock comes out the bigger your funnel needs to be and the shallower your slot needs to be so rocks don't roll into your tracks as you pass through it. Some other basic tips on production dozing: ALWAYS look behind you while backing up. Make it a goal to NEVER spin your tracks while cutting or carrying. Never bounce around, always be smooth. Avoid turning under load, plan ahead and if you need to turn with a load do it with finesse (no lugging or jerking). Always let your engine idle down before going from reverse to forward (never lurch forward) At the fill side always release the material before going into reverse. Push downhill when possible, if you have to push across a flat or uphill, at least cut downhill to feed the slot if you can. In hard material swing your ass end around at the funnel of the slot and let your blade pull you into the material. It's easier to sink a corner bit in than the whole cutting edge. Use your tilt to help steer into and through the slot. Keep your slot only as deep as needed to carry a full load. Keep an eye on your torque converter temp on long 2nd gear pushes. If you are building a fill you can fan out of the slot. Try to work in patterns of some kind like farmers do. Those are some basics tips, and this is just my way of doing things and may not work for everyone.
Welcome aborad Grouser. Sounds like you've done this once or twice before Specially agree with the tip about a pattern.:drinkup
Going up hill with what sounds like it could be an easy load I would hook the 463 scrapers behind the D8's for a job like that one.
Yair....guday fellers. Not a lot of Leteourneau dpull. Just a couple of scoops (you call them pans) behind the HD 20's they were a bit tippy and spent a bit of time with their wheels in the air as far as I recall. They'd move a lot of dirt though with those torque converter Allis's. In those days we were mainly into land clearing and were pulling scrub with dragline chain and three HD21's.
Get the wheels in the air on the Cat 70's, 80's and 463's here once in a great while here too, but the rear push type ejector keeps the center of gravity low and cleans out good when unloading too. Usually have another small dozer working the fill when doing this type of work too.
Meant to add on that #36 post that I wouldn't have minded you on our crew Grouser. It's good to see a younger bloke so knowledgeable about his craft and, just as importantly, how to look after his machine. Anyone can drive a dozer but it takes intelligence and a certain curiosity to develop the skills to work a machine to its maximum potential. That's what started me off on this thread. When Rueben asked the volume question it was pretty open ended...I mean what series D8, how long were the "days"........and probably the biggest factor influencing the outcome, how good is the operator? If the job was in the hands of some of the blokes I see around here at the moment it could take a long long time!!!
Thanks for the welcome, Panhandler Bob and thanks for the compliment Scrub Puller. I am actually dang near 50! What a great source of information this website is. A big thanks to Steve Frazier for getting it going and to all the knowledgeable people on here answering questions and sharing thier experience with others. Should see a few more guys from my area on here soon.