Greetings to all! I have a Volvo EC 460 B LC that I just added a hydraulic thumb to. Got it hosed up this morning and now I can't find a way to enable the control to operate it. The machine has a rocker switch on the right hand panel to change from a hammer to a shear or thumb. At present, it is set up for a hammer. The digital panel has all the options for changing the flow rate for a hammer, but a hammer is only a single acting cylinder. Hence, the right hand button on the right hand joystick will open the thumb, but there is no way to close the thumb. Of course, it is a double acting cylinder. The only literature I have access to says the left button on the right joystick is a "spare", when it would seem natural for it to operate the thumb to close it. I don't know how to access the menu to enable that switch, or if that is even possible on this machine. The dealer is researching this for me also, but after half a day I've heard nothing back from them. SN is 80211 if that helps. The dealer rep asked if there was an "extra" pedal on the floorboard, but there is not. Just the 2 that are there in tandem with the sticks. There is, however, a foot operated switch/pedal that is just laying there, on a loose cable. It doesn't seem to have any function. It was stuffed back under the seat. We have not had this machine running on-site prior to this. On another thread, I spoke about it regarding an engine. For any interested, that is finished. Wound up buying an engine and rebuilding it. Runs great now. Just need to resolve this thumb issue then turn the kids loose on it. Open to suggestions. Any help would be appreciated!
A volvo tech will have to turn on the parameters in the VECU. It can only be done in techtool . A proprietary tool afforded dealers. Does the machine have bi-directional plumbing. If it was a straight up hammer installation, the return piping may just go to tank vs return to MCV B port. Glad you got your engine done.
According to your build sheet, it was born with bi-directional flow and 2 pump flow to support some big attachments. There should be a pedal valve to the right of the travel pedals. That should be your mechanical back up to the joystick. Parameters BFJ, If the V-ECU was replaced and not programmed right, it may have to be reset. Check sn on VECU if it is A1262 its original. Other than that, you're going to need schematics and installation instructions to follow and confirm what's happening where.
I thought that might be the case. The tech I spoke with didn't immediately come to that conclusion though, so I hoped there was end user access. The fact that there is a rocker switch with hammer/shear selectivity and a window decal showing button function that also includes hammer/shear selection gives me hope that the plumbing is all there.
OK I'll check the V-ECU sn and make sure it's original. I don't have a problem getting a tech out if that's what it takes. The guy I talked to seemed to have a little trouble remembering how this control was set up. Yes, it's digital, but not a true all "glass" console. There are three distinct sections of the display. Two are LCD and one in the center (vertically speaking) is a series of "icons" that are illuminated from the back when activated. I can see the hammer emblem lit, as well as the power boost, when active. Just don't see any place to change to shear mode, which should be the same as a thumb. Plus I have been advised to set the operating pressure for the thumb at 2500 PSI max. That setting is not to be found at this point either. I must assume it will show up when the shear mode is activated. Oh, and there is no "extra" pedal, per se. Just that loose foot switch. I can't tell through my boots whether it "clicks" or is a variable control of some sort. To the immediate right and left of the travel pedals there are simply rigid mount pads....foot rests I assume. Nothing under them but brackets to support them.
Some were ordered with just joystick control. On the right switch panel up on the window wall should be 3 or 4 back is rocker for hammer shear. Tipped towards window, hammer, tipped towards operator, shear. It's not just an on/off switch. When you raise the safety lever in shear mode, you should see the shear icon in the display as well as the gpm set for a few moments. At the foot of the boom on the right side should be a large 3 way block on a bracket . 3 #16 or 20 hoses going to it and a couple -6 or 8. That's the logic valve that sends oil back to valve or straight to tank. Quickest way to tell.
That rocker switch is present. It's actually a 3 position switch, with hammer, nothing, then shear. I'll take a look at the hosing and see if the logic valve is there. Are you saying that the safety lever must be down to make that switch active? That I have not tried. When in the cab, running, safety lever up, the display will light up the hammer when the rocker is tipped that direction, but no shear ever shows up regardless of what I've tried up to this point. I'll be away from the computer for a little while today but will have my phone so I can access the forum.
If you're not seeing shear with the switch in different positions, you could very well have a bad switch
Once I confirm the hosing, I will check the switch. I still have not heard back from the dealer tech who is supposed to be helping me.
Here is where the lines end on the boom. Right side and left side. I still haven't heard back from the dealer tech. I got busy with other broken down equipment today and didn't get a chance to check the switch or verify the VECU sn. Outward appearance is that it is set up for a shear/thumb. If the switch checks out, I guess I am at the mercy of the dealer to configure the VECU.
You have all the necessary piping and valves. Up n down the boom and arm. The next step is tracing power, starting at the fuse out to the switch etc, etc. I will try n provide you the needed schematics. It may take me a bit.
I thought it looked complete. Take your time. I appreciate all the help! I can give you my email if it is needed.
Well, consensus is that the parameters are not set for a dual acting cylinder as would be used on a shear, thumb, clamshell, grapple, etc. I will reluctantly bring in dealer help. I guess they have to make a living too. I have a question though. I found this: https://www.epcatalogs.com/Volvo-Developer-Tool-for-PTT-2-02-diagnostic-tool/ I realize it says "diagnostic tool", but would this help me reconfigure the VECU on this excavator? And since it mentions various versions of Windows being compatible, am I to read that as this software is intended to run on a laptop? If so, what cables are needed? I just did a quick read-thru, but it sort of sounds like there is a USB to machine cable, and probably different variants since it also is said to work on Mack trucks. Anyone familiar with it?
In addition to the software, you'll need Volvo's fancypants vocom adapter. Just took a peek at Ebay, any where from a 1000 to 2500. Plus , there's a special adapter dongle that goes between the cable and the excavator. If you have a rectangular connector, you can forgo the extra dongle. You must get fully licensed software to be able to change parameters. Unfortunately, you still won't have access to central systems to change/ update software. You'll only be able to tweak or modify existing.
here are the schematics as I promised and then forgot. Sorry for the delay.
The owner of this machine apparently has had less than satisfactory dealing with what would be the normal dealer, who is only ~30 miles away. That would be the guy who hasn't returned my calls for several days now. I spoke with the sales guy and he relayed from that particular tech that there needs to be a third pedal. It doesn't make sense if that pedal only closed the thumb....surely it would be a two way pedal. One of our operators told me he had seen a single wired foot switch that functioned to engage both propel valves equally to just drive straight, with both tracks equal, instead of managing the two levers or two pedals. That may be the foot switch I have. It doesn't do anything either, btw. The owner asked me to reach out to DFW and Shreveport and try to talk to a Service Manager and explain the situation and make a decision on who seemed most knowledgeable on this problem. From past experience, it will cost $1,000-$1,200 just to get them here. Then whatever they have to do. I don't want to waste any money, but I need to wrap this project up.
Thanks for those schematics. That will help track down a few things. Since we did have the engine out, it's possible something didn't get plugged back in, I suppose, But this engine shop is very good, and it would be the exception rather than the rule that they missed something. But it's not impossible. I think I'll move this machine inside, or under our covered dock area at least. The rains left, and the sun is out....plenty warm.
if you look at the schematics, The VECU is only for proportional control of the pump. The fact that you have hammer function says you have control. Additionally , your machine was born with 2 pump flow, Thats a switch in the L/S console Keep it on 1 pump, 2 pump will slam that thumb without mercy. A little about 2 pump vs 1 pump, in one pump flow, you have proportional control of one pump, the other is off line, in 2 pump you have 100% of one pump plus proportional control of second with every push of the button. Setting pressure in that circuit to 2500 is common for almost all aftermarket suppliers. There is a 2 stage relief valve that has to be adjusted. If your guys have issue with or don't understand how it works, let me know. I will help there as well. First, lets trace the circuits with the supplied schematics. Good luck
unlikely, anything was left disconnected. Engine bay and pump room wouldn't have any interference with needed valves. the valves are located in the pump room and the room immediately behind the cab.
Good evening Tony, I am sorry that you are having trouble with our dealer in Longview. I'm a mechanic for the Dallas branch and I know how you feel when you say that the service manager wont return your calls. About a month ago I bailed him out with a large customer that he had neglected and I never got him to answer the phone or call me back. So I really understand your disdain for that branch. I would encourage you to call the Dallas branch and inform them of your problems. As far as your machine is concerned you should have two pedals on each side of the travel pedals. They have a spring loaded pin to lock them out from accidental operation when not needed. The pedal on the left is for straight travel and the pedal on the right is for the hammer and shear. If your joystick button is opening the thumb then it should close it as well I would check to see if the button is indeed working. Hear are some things that should point you in the right direction.
Hydraulic schematic.
Paul, thanks for the information. I'll have it with me when I go by today. Seems we have a few machines needing attention today, but I'll get there. Or I'll go in tomorrow. The grinders we use take a real beating. I guess most of them do. We do push ours hard though. And have some careless operators. One now ex-employee swung our 320E around and hit the fines conveyor on a grinder and bent it, broke the hydraulic motor off completely, and never said a word. He was let go for tearing other machines up, and we found that a day after he left. It's still in repair. Some people should not sit in the operators seat of a machine at all. I am not intending to run down any equipment dealer; just telling it how it is. And this seems to be the case with a couple more dealers locally. We have just about every manufacturer represented here in Tyler, but not Volvo. Most of the guys are very helpful and dealing with them is a pleasure. We do most of our own service work, up to but not including engines and transmissions. But I've been able to find independent shops for that who I've come to trust. I do most all the hydraulics myself, so that's why this thumb fell in my lap. Plus I've nursed this excavator for the last six months getting the engine done and other things fixed. It's a very smooth machine, I almost hate to hand the keys over the operators. I still need to get the A/C cooling but that will be the last thing. Paul, do you agree that it could be as simple as a parameter setting in the ECU? I don't mind chasing a few wires and fuses, etc, but as far as I can tell this machine is relatively undisturbed. I'm beginning to think that's what it could be. But I could be convinced otherwise. It doesn't make sense to enable the hammer and not the shear, since it's all plumbed for both. If there is even two separate parameters for that. I'm not seeing any pedals that are built like the travel pedals other than the two that are linked to the sticks. I'll shoot a couple of pics today of what the cab floor looks like. To me they appear to be footrests. They don't move, but I suppose could be pinned stationary. the size and shape doesn't lend itself to any pivot, but since this is electrical, a small movement could close a switch and since there are two.....who knows? I'll get a better look.
I'm of the mindset that you don't need any programming. It appears that the machine was built with the auxiliary option and all of the parameters should be turned on. I would think that it's a electrical issue. make sure that your valves are open where you plumb the hoses for the thumb on the auxiliary circuit.
I'll admit that was the first thing that tripped me up. I forgot about those valves. Since I was convinced that the machine had run a hammer sometime in its past life, I guess subconsciously I knew the valves were open. They were not. What puzzles me most so far is the statement by the service tech that indicated that his read of the machine build sheet showed that the left button on the right joystick was "disabled" or "not used". That makes no sense, especially if the option for a shear was available with rocker switches. The rocker switch shouldn't be there if the machine was not built ready to run a shear or other two way accessory, or should not be labelled as hammer/shear. It also has a middle position which I assume is "off" with neither hammer nor shear enabled. If it wasn't built the way it is, I might buy that the left joystick button was disabled.
I believe that you have been misinformed about the joystick button. The only way to know if it is enabled is with tech tool. But since your machine was built with auxiliary hydraulics then in theory that button will be enabled. I still suspect that you have a fault in the button or the solenoid.
Just finished going thru the cab fuse block checking for continuity. All good except for F2, a lighting circuit. On to checking the solenoid. I don’t have a resistance value to look for so it’s just a connection visual and coil continuity check. Not located it on the machine or schematic yet, but assuming it’s a 24V coil with one side grounded. I’m a serious hobby electronics guy so I find electrical problems usually pretty basic and easy to find. Not always but generally. Before I leave the cab I will verify the rocker switch. Then hunt down the solenoid. I still sincerely appreciate the help.
Well well. Checking the rh side rockers I find a terminal that had slipped out of the Molex connector. Happened to be the hammer/shear selector switch. Now I get the shear icon illuminated and full function of the thumb WITH the left button in the right hand joystick. It appears it is functioning correctly. I still think I’d be wise to check the pressures but by how the thumb moves, it’s not all that @snappy”, so maybe it’s already set. I realize it could be a flow volume issue but think that’s a long shot. Victory is in sight! Can’t tell you guys, esp fun with fuel and Paul Council for all the help. You guys have my gratitude. Tony Wells
I would definitely recommend checking the pressure. The pressure is most likely to be correct, but if it's set to high then you run the risk of bending the cylinder. I am glad that you found a problem that didn't require tech tool. Although my company lost the chance of a service call.
Well I guess I’m torn on that thought. I know your company makes money from it. I’m actually just a contractor who happens to be a long time friend of the owner. I’m trying not to work too much. I’m semi retired so it would not bother me to call you guys in. But in the other hand, even though I don’t need the money I make working on his equipment I enjoy the work. But I think there’s enough to go around and when I get on something best left to you, the owner is good with my call on who to bring in. So you’ll get your chance, I’m sure. But I’ll definitely check the pressure. Again I thank you and everyone else who chimes in on this thread. Made me look like the hero. I will do the same for you any time I can.
No worries about the service call. I don't want to see a customer pay dealer prices when it wasn't warranted. There's plenty of work that requires tech tool, but I rather help in a way that we are remembered for the small freebie and get the big job later. I believe in making customers for life rather than getting a quick buck. I have been party to it but understand the reason. But nothing is worse than when you have to charge a customer 2k to tell him that it's a loose connection.
I agree and operate on the same principles. I don't know how some guys sleep at night when they do that sort of thing. It can't feel good, but I supposed there are people that relish the idea. I can usually pick them out the first time they make a call. They usually don't get a second chance. My professional background is machine shop, part of it in QC. We had a guy out of Georgia who sold us an older, but nice CMM, with updated software and all. Boice machine. But he wanted to get all the annual cal business too. He tried to arrange several customers on a trip so the travel expense could be shared among all of us. One year, he had too many cancellations, and rather than give us an opt-out, he drove in just for us. And billed it. I told him we wouldn't be needing his services any more. There are others we started using. You can shear your sheep once a year, but you only get to skin them once. We paid him, but not a single cent more went to him. And I had friends on his "route" that I alerted to his tactic and they said that for sure they would write the PO in such a way that if he had a route change that would affect the travel charges, it was void. I think I made an enemy, but a few friends too. And as I said, I have no problem calling in outside help when I think that's the correct thing to do. There are many factors to consider. Even on this very machine, we bought the thumb through that dealer when I could have gone elsewhere, but the guy they use to do the install I know to do good work. He's done about 200 thumb installs. Sure, we could have handled it ourselves. We have certified welders with years of experience on staff. There's nothing really tricky about mounting a thumb, but since we bought it from that dealer I though it best to go with this particular welder who does all of their installs. Turns out he billed us direct and the dealer made only the markup on the thumb, but that was the agreement with the 3 parties involved. He did a nice job, got paid well, and everyone was happy. Being self employed I have the option of no-charging a customer in cases like you mentioned; loose connection. Many times I have just fixed it and made a friend. It only cost me time, and I don't have to report to anyone about what I do. But nearly always I get calls back from those same guys, and it's not hoping to get a freebie. It's because I treated them right. When it's more serious and I have to actually replace parts, or spend a lot of time, they are perfectly content paying the bill. If I was ambitious enough and thought I could hold up to the work (I have some some physical disabilities), I have no doubt I could make a decent living out of it. But I don't really want to. I'd rather just drift into full retirement. Paul check your PM please. Tony
Just for the record, here are a couple of pics from the cab showing the footrests and the rocker switch panel. I do wonder about that unplugged connector labeled "Aux". There isn't an open switch, so I am inclined to think there is some option that is unused where another switch would be installed for it to mate to. Floorboard shot showing footrests. View from operator position of floorboard. Terminal found out of Molex connector. That last pic is a little deceiving. The open switch is not where the aux connector goes. It just landed there for the pic. It was not, and is not connected to anything, nor is there a place for it.