Well, some of you may remember the Volvo 460 digger I went through the painful process of sourcing a matching engine to rebuild since the original was beyond repair. Well, a well documented flaw in these D12d engines, and a few others I'm sure, is a leaky feedthru for the injector control wiring harness. This one leaked a bit after the rebuild, but I was able to stem the flow, until recently apparently. The operator had been on it for a couple of hours, and parked it. He was on another machine and noticed a small flame coming out a top cover vent. We do keep fire extinguishers on all the machines, and he was pretty quick to get it out. But damage has been done. Here are a few pictures of what I have to work with after a little bath. That's the main area. The plastic box suffered a little melt on the entry end, but not enough to stick it together. Hopefully it won't be too bad.
A few before the bath. The coolant sensor near the feedthru also is toast, and the (I believe) fuel line with banjo fitting is intact, so the fire was of fairly short duration, but it is somewhat brittle and will be replaced. A few of the wires in this area only lost their insulation so if I can source the correct type of wire I may do a proper splice and simply repair them rather than replace the entire length. By and large, it could have been much worse. I believe I have the information to source the various parts, so a shopping I will go! If anyone has any suggestions on what to look for beyond the obvious, the input would be most welcome. I plan on removing for inspection the starter solenoid, as it shows some heat discoloration. There is a small relay mounted on it also, the function of which is unclear. The insulated terminals on the solenoid and that relay did melt, but did not burn away, so it's not too bad, I think.
This one is still sitting where the welders burned it down. It didn't fair so well. It's another Volvo, a 260 IIRC. Seems we should part this one out, but owner not ready. Engine trashed pretty well. Any aluminum covers and parts were melted off, but the cast iron is still ok I suppose. Might make a core of someone was desperate. Still some good parts though. Can totally burned out, but undercarriage not hurt, swing motors ok, main cylinders untouched, etc. The welders did not have enough fire extinguishers to catch it before it got into the fuel and oil systems. Nothing they could do. Fire dept was called out on this one. Anyway, that's just a sidetrack. I do not have a manual for this D12d engine, so I'm going to wing it, with some help from you guys, I'm sure. Unless I can come up with a manual somehow. I sure wouldn't mind having one.
That's a shame to see. Looking at that, I have to wonder where the fire started. All you have under the valve cover is injectors and the oil control solenoid. None should have carried the amperage to cause that. The oil leak at the passage is a known issue, but, there is no heat source over there, strong enough to light it off. I'm just speculating here, but I'd look closely at the starter. Particularly the L strap from solenoid to armature. If its loose, it may have thrown a hot spark that way. The little relay on top of the solenoid is just that. A relay to take the load off the switch. I think there are 3 or 4 total on an excavator, redundancy and safety. Check your ignition switch, verify nobody tapped power off of it. It looks beefy, but it doesn't handle loads very well. Make sure it doesn't feel gritty and springs back firmly from the start position. The feed cable to the alternator from the starter that passes through the plastic manifold, it's NOT cable. It's fuse link and should be replaced with the correct part if its compromised. The more I look at it. It appears the coolant sensor wiring shorted to power somewhere. It appears those wires melted all insulation from end to end. It could be the pic, but worth looking .
FWF, as far as the origin of the fire, I agree with you that there should be no way that the injector harness itself could cause this. Those wires only carry current part of the time, and even if one of the injector solenoids were completely shorted, it shouldn't get that hot for one thing, and there would be a flat miss on that cylinder that should be noticeable. Since they are not individually fused, I figure there is some over-current protection built into the driver circuit. It's true that there was some oil seepage, but that still requires ignition. I have been looking at the lower area where the oil should end up if it does leak through that gland. It's impossible to tell now, of course, how much oil there was. I believe there was enough heat to damage the solenoid and starter relay. I'm replacing the relay, and probably the solenoid. I'll open the solenoid up for inspection first though. I've not broken loose any of the connections yet, but that may be a tattletale on whether they were tight or not. It had been running for a couple of hours, so no cranking current would have been flowing through that strap. So it should not have been hot, unless there is a starter circuit problem. Some of this will have to be really looked t closely after it gets back together and running. Any push-on connectors would be suspect of arcing, and hot oil is easy to ignite. It's true that a couple of those wires did cook off their insulation, and very much look like they were hot due to current. There will be a lot of resistance checks before this machine gets powered back up. In fact, none of the injector drive wires lost their insulation to that degree. Some just scorched from the fire. But some of the wires are bare for 8-10 inches. But like you, attention will focus on the starter, solenoid, and relay. My supplier sent diagrams for the ECU harness and sensors, but did not identify the hose adjacent to the coolant sensor. Is that an oil line or a fuel supply? I suspect oil. The hose did not burn through, but did get a little crispy and brittle, so it will be replaced. The banjo fitting survived, but that hose runs quite a ways to a bulkhead panel that I will have to stand on my head to get to to reach to bottom end. I'm familiar with fusible links, but I don't think it took any damage during this event. I'll be checking it, of course. This is where a touch of OCD doesn't hurt. So far, I estimate the parts cost of this little fiasco to be a little under $3k.
I look for little balls on the ends of the wires trying to find a spark source.
Excellent tip, John. Those blobs are caused by the failure of the wire to carry the current and fail by burning in two. There will always be a higher resistance spot in a wire that will generate heat, maybe because a couple of strands have been nicked or broken, effectively lowering the wire gauge and hence ampacity, and that's where it will part. That last arc forms those balls. In this instance, there are no wires that actually burned in two though. No loose ends.
That was my thought on the photos of the burned wires. My thought is something burning below.
The banjo fitting and hose is double wall fuel line. That's the supply to the head from the secondary filter. It has a hard vinyl inner tube and a softer exterior outer jacket. At least most do. I once had a customer with a loader. They had installed aftermarket GPS and theft prevention. The module that was supposed to release the machine to start or interrupt circuit depending on input, it was holding 8 volts to a 24 volt relay. They couldn't understand why they were going through starters. Evidently, once it started, they just put it to work, not realizing the starter was just working away, killing itself. There have been so many erroneous signals to the start circuit over the years. Most of the time by some guy with a test light looking for power to run his cooler or something Good luck with the hunt
Better buy the BIG terminal kit!
John, you're quite likely right. Just need to find what got so hot down low on that engine that it ignited the oil. I'm sure it wasn't the injector feedthru. I think FWF may be onto something with the heat coming from the starter area. FWF, I don't think there is anyone with the nerve to go poking around adding something, but never say never. I'll definitely be asking questions, and if there is any evidence of add-on wires I'll find it. I guess that shoots the local sourcing of that hose down. Oh well, it's supposed to be added to my parts quote this morning so I'll get it coming with the rest of the stuff. Thanks for that info, I was about to let it slide on the parts order. It sounds as though that starter disable was not installed correctly. Either bad instructions or a failure to understand the starter circuit. I've had starters hang before, and fortunately been able to hear them. I saw one though, that was stuck engaged that was on a gasoline engine, and with the normally higher speeds and tremendous up-gearing drive off the flywheel slung the windings off the armature and made a real mess. Eventually it seized up and twisted the shaft off. Quite a sight though. I'll probably leave the starter d/c when I first reconnect the power just to make sure which wires are hot. I sort of suspect the starter relay hung in and that by itself would get hot, plus drive the solenoid to engage the starter. Seems a definite possibility for a hot spot. Vetech, if it gets over #8 I have to go to the supply house. I mean, I keep a few battery cable crimp lugs, and down to #8 or 10 I'm covered, but I have sources and friends in the electrical community so even up to whatever size is used in the 13Kv feeds I have some fittings (3-4000mcm?), but not the crimpers. Too rich for my blood since that isn't my game.
Well, my parts guy is having trouble coming up with the pn for the double fuel line, even using prosis.
It's a formed hose. It should go to a manifold and then up to the secondary filter. If you can tug on or bend the line and it doesn't break, I'd reuse it. I would definitely replace the seals .
Well, it's pretty solidly held by clamps/brackets all the way to a flat metal "bulkhead" of sorts and if you look at I believe the 2nd pic, you can see that it was exposed directly to the fire. I don't know how much pressure it carries, but I really would like to replace it. I know that right at the banjo fitting, it's pretty hard and can't really squeeze it with fingers.
The part number for the fuel line is... VOE15015107 (FUEL PIPE) VOE20852765 ( SEALING WASHERS)
Thank you Paul. I have sent those numbers to my parts guy. Found a prosis diagram online that certainly seems to match.
This shows pretty well how it is laid out, but it does seem a shorter route to the bulk head plate than on the 460. I'm not sure what this is from, specifically. Just a Google image I found using Paul's number. Item "B".
Hey guys, can anyone help with a schematic of the engine controls? I can't locate one myself and some of those that I did turn up showed fusible links in a couple of places where I am concerned about running new wire. I don't want to replace a FL with a straight wire. All my bits and pieces are supposed to be here tomorrow, so if it isn't a swamp, I plan on starting to put it back together. It's been raining so it could be a day or two before it dries out enough to get to it. Thanks!
Hard to believe, but finally after getting in a bind of not having enough machinery around to support operations, this repair came back to the top of the list. I got everything burnt all cleaned/cut/scraped away and the new harness on. Only to find that, as I had feared, there is a problem with the starter. And some evidence that it's where the heat came from that ignited the engine oil. Found a few other things to fix on it as well, under all the ashes and oil. But I'll have a new starter, solenoid, and relay on it Monday. One of the items unrelated to the fire is the oil level sensor. It is simply broken. The standard twist-lock connector has nothing to latch to. The sensor is a male pin design, and someone prior to me had gone to great length to avoid replacing it. First, they gooped it up with RTV. Then it looks like they took a piece of 1/4 steel and fashions a crude, but certainly heavy enough retaining bracket to hold pressure against it. But that's all going to be gone. On a diagram I have, there are two possible PN's, but they are broken down by serial numbers so it will be just a matter of getting to correct replacement. But a question came to me. If I can't get it quickly, or decide to wait until the next oil change, how much does the ECM rely on the output of the sensor? Will it prevent the engine from running if it does not sense oil? Since it's mounted in a hole on the side of the pan, I have to assume it's under oil, and will certainly drain who knows how much if I just pull it out. Or even though it isn't sensible, does the pan have to be completely removed to replace this sensor? We sort of frown on oil on the ground in the Compost/Mulch areas. Can get by with a little, but over a quart is considered too much. I guess it wouldn't hurt to drop the level enough to get the sensor out without losing much if I can, if any. Since the wiring to the starter, or rather to and from the solenoid and relay and starter all got pretty well cooked to a crisp, anyone have a diagram for those connections? I'm going to have to rebuilt the jumpers and such. TIA!
I'm down to one wire that got missed in the marking. It measures ~0.2 Ohms to ground (approximately lead resistance), so pretty sure it doesn't go the battery stud, or the hot-while-crank stud on the solenoid. Of the large studs that only leaves ground. But it makes no sense to ground it since it already seems to be ground. The only thing I can come up with is a "positive" (not speaking in terms of polarity) ground for the alternator, but unless I put my tracer on it, which I'll do tomorrow unless I can get a diagram or something, I can't be certain were it goes. I do not see the smaller wire at the alternator, but that means nothing. It disappears into another harness. Note it's two wires, a 6 and a 18 or so. Has to go on the starter someplace. Needless to say, I'm embarrassed to have to ask this, especially in light of the fact that I just pulled this starter Friday. I was hot, tired, and hurried...and just missed tagging it. Guilty. I feel like I should remember, but I'm no gambler. Anyone have a schematic?
Call in the hounds. It's a ground wire. Machine runs. Throws one code I'll have to chase down. 128 PID 100 3 Looks very familiar, like it had this code before the fire.
Well, the reason it seemed familiar is that I brought it up in another thread on this machine when I was hunting an engine. Long before the fire, so unrelated. HeavyEquipmentForums I think I know now, after going through all the wiring on the backside of the engine what may be going on. The oil level/temp sensor (if I have that right) is located in the side of the pan. The connector on the sensor side is broken, so there is a questionable connection there. The harness twist-lock has nothing to latch onto. It appears, from a cursory inspection, that the pan needs to be removed to replace it. That makes little sense to me, but it may to Volvo. On top of that, it looks like a pretty fair job to R&R the pan. So far though, the prosis screengrabs I have don't seem to agree with what I have. They seem to have a pigtail that connects to the harness. I'm puzzled. When I had it unplugged, the male pins on the sensor side seemed a little loose. Not exactly a confidence builder. In order to eliminate (or confirm) this fault, is it Kosher to solder some jumpers to the pins and make a pigtail? Not too sure mere alligator clips would stay put while it was running.
Can anyone give me the details on this sensor? Test procedure, wiring pinout, etc? Maybe an R&R?
Ok, boys and girls....those still playing along. This is the connector for the sensor in question. Located on the back of the pan/sump just below the seal surface. It's obvious that the connector sleeve that provides the index features is....well, gone. So I can, as I choose, plug the female connector in with any orientation I like. So far, I have seen only two types of these sensors. One is simply threaded into the pan, and the sensor itself is on a pigtail inside the pan/sump. Simple enough to thread out and replace with a new one. The other is mounted to the pan from inside and has a pigtail outside the pan. This one is NOT of the externally installed variety, but rather (unfortunately) one that installs from the inside of the pan. And on this machine, there is no way to remove the pan without major work, as in lifting the engine for clearance. So my options seem limited. My engine guy suggested that, by process of elimination, all 4 possible orientations could be tried to see if the alarm would calm down. I am making the assumption that between each attempt, the code would have to be cleared. Right now, our laptop dongle has had a problem so I cannot use it until I receive a replacement. But in case that isn't true, I did try the connector in all 4 positions this morning with no positive results. So I'll wait until I can go through that before taking more radical action. Of course, this all assumes the sensor itself is good. I have no test procedures in hand to make that determination. As alternatives, here are my ideas so far, in no particular order of preference. I encourage your comments: For your amusement I present the following: (no particular order) 1) Acquire a new, known good sensor and poke a new hole near the old one and install to connect per factory. Requires machining new flange to mount sensor. No problem, I have a machine shop. Potential issue is small chance of a few cuttings dropping into pan; there are tricks to minimize this, however. 2) Build a ~2.5 VDC (assuming this is a .5-5.0 VDC range sensor) power supply and "fake out" the expected signals. Obvious drawback: loss of true data. 3) Find another location for at least the oil temp sensor (substitute, obviously), such as oil cooler line or line to a remote something somewhere, assuming such is available. Drawback: loss of oil level data, which could be critical in case of filter rupture or other rapid loss of oil. This should be followed by the rapid loss of oil pressure and an alarm alarm, but that is lagging, time wise. Operator shift check includes oil level monitor anyway, so slow loss should be detected. 4) Reserved for you folks. I actually favor relocating the sensor, but obviously that could be the most difficult. If you would, think about it and give me some feedback please. And try not to laugh...OK, go ahead... I don't mind.
Does your oil pan look like this, with the 2 bosses in side for dipstick?
Heres schematic for oil temp and level. SE2202/2203
FWF, no, the dipstick on this engine is actually on the other side (front of machine). Not really looked specifically if it could be the same casting, but I don't believe there are any bosses cast in for dipsticks like you've shown there. I'm sure there is no item -A- on it. Another difference I see is in the slope present on the left hand side. My pan is basically flat on the bottom, with just the step up on one end. There naturally is a little slope to that end, and maybe a little on the deeper section, as the drain plug is in the deeper section of course. IIRC, there are two plugs. On on the side, as yours shows, and one directly on the bottom. Going by memory, and focused on the sensor area I really haven't paid much attention to the rest of it. I can go by and take a look, and pics if it would help. But that isn't the way mine if configured. I need to go check the wiring anyway, now with a schematic. Assuming that it would be the same. This is an '05. Well, the machine is, and supposedly the block we bought to rebuild is. I'm sure the shop would have used the original pan or they would have told me. After thinking about it some, what are the odds that the sensor I have is the threaded in style (since there is no pigtail outside the pan)? If it is, I'm thinking that I could drill a couple of holes and use a face spanner to remove it. It's in a counterbore, so I'd have to make it just for this, but that's simple enough. Never having removed one, I don't know where the seal would be, but it's not pouring oil out, so I'm thinking deeper than the counterbore, of course. On the other hand, the counterbore itself might be designed as the sealing surface and it's only seeping a little through the threads. Maybe I can simply remove and replace it.
Don't go trying to remove that.
You still got the pan of the core engine?
FWF, LOL....I wouldn't without a consensus from you guys. I was just pondering how to, IF it was the style that threaded in from outside the pan. Obviously if it's the other style, there would be no way to remove the probe and lead and other hardware that is inside the pan. Plus if I were to attempt to "unscrew" it, and it were attached by the 4 "ears" that is looks to have, it isn't coming out through that hole in any case. That would create a very, very bad situation.
I don't, here...but my engine guys may. I'll check with them. Won't be a way to swap it though, I wouldn't think. At least not a field job. But it would tell me what sensor style it has. And I was told it was identical.
I thought there was a generation thing with your original to your donor. It's been a while.
I'm willing to bet (and accept ) that's about what I'm looking at. With the level probe attached to the bottom of the pan, that's just one more reason that replacing it is out, short of removing the pan. That's probably why I found it with zip ties, RTV (which yes, I know it shouldn't be used around electrical connections - acetic acid and all that) and that fabricated metal "finger" seen pushed off to the side in my pics. Someone already ran into this. Now the question becomes how to make it usable as is. I can live with the fabricated retainer if I must, but I have to make the connection to the sensor proper. And I'm sure hoping the sensor is good, otherwise I'm pretty much hosed.
It has been some time and a few repair jobs since, so I can't recall for sure either. There may have been, but I don't believe so. But even if so, what are the odds that the original pan, with sensors, wouldn't fit, and the engine guys had to go with the pan that came with the core? I have a call in to them, no return yet. I'll find out. I don't remember any discussion with them about swapping old and new parts. Still I'm stuck trying to make a reasonably professional repair on what I have.
Of course too, on the sensor side, I have no way to determine which pins are which. The harness side is numbered, but unless I just haven't cleaned enough gunk out of it, I don't think there are any numbers. Are any resistance specs available? Naturally, the level probe will be at whatever the actual oil level dictates unless I take a bunch of readings, then drain the oil and read again, so pretty much meaningless unless there is a normal range, but the temp sensor should show some Δ as the engine warms up, assuming again, that it is a good sensor.
You'll notice in the schematic provided, ghe combi-sensor has temp/pressure. Temp is read off pins 3&4
If you can get a rock steady pic with magnifier , we might be able to figure out pin orientation
Maybe. It's a little tight there, but other than my phone/cam I have a DSLR and some macro lenses. I can try getting it clean and some better pics. It does seem likely, for protection purposes if nothing else, that the 90° connector on the harness would be turned elbow up, but that's how it has been all this time. If that is correct, and whoever put this all back together (my engine guys) verified it, then I have a problem with the sensor, or the ECM isn't reading it right. That's grasping, I know, but I can't believe the engine shop would release it with a critical alarm triggered, without intervention from someone (like the owner, but that's unlike him). But I wasn't privy to every conversation that took place during the rebuild. I would not let an engine out of my shop with this kind of problem.
OK, that's useful for sure. I can at least see if it is reading temp. That may help identify at least pics 3/4. But not necessarily which is which, unless it is a variable dc voltage out. This dual sensor is for level and temp, pressure sensor is elsewhere. BN/W being common to all 4 sensors on that section of schematic would indicate either a common gnd, or common supply. All on pin 4, with the exception of the 2 wire sensor. Easy enough to find out.
If you have an android, look in widgets. There should be a tool called magnifier. It is the single greatest app for aging peepers.
Well, iPhone here....but it also has it. I knew it had some zoom capability in the cam, but was not aware of the magnifier, which seems to be a bit stronger. Aging peepers I got....and some not so fresh bifocals. I will try the magnifier. Now to convince myself to go crawl around under the thing today. I guess I should. I'll be back... Any other ideas that pop up, please post them....I can get them on my phone.
Batch 1
Batch 2
Batch 3
Batch 4
OK, enough pics. Let's talk about the sketch, last pic. I didn't have the energy to CAD it up, but I think it will provide what information I'm trying to convey. First off, orientation is as it is in the pan; up is up. The numbers I assigned are simply that. It seemed logical to start at 1:00 to number it "1", and proceed clockwise following that scheme. The color notes are random according to the alligator clip jumpers on hand and has no significance. Please note the resistance readings however. None of the wires are grounded to the machine chassis. There are apparently two pair - 1 & 3, and 2 & 4. The resistance is noted on those pairs. There is no connection between the pairs. So it seems to me that each of the pairs that have a resistivity relationship are the pairs to each of the two separate sensors. So, if 1.2 K Ω is correct for either the oil level sensor (instinct says it is), then we can ID that pair, unless this is really a switched (presence/absence) type of sensor, which it very well could be. I don't know. But that would make wires 1 & 3 the oil level sensor, and by default wires 2 & 4 the temp sensor. But being relatively low at ~13 Ω makes it seem more like a switch, closed (I'll allow for poor clip jumpers on that resistance, as a switch should be lower). On the other hand, if the oil level sensor is a P-A switch, and I know there is oil in the machine, it should be closed, and give a low resistance reading. The temp sensor, depending on what style or method used, could easily be in the range of 1.2 KΩ at ambient temperature. I can warm the machine up and see which one changes and call that, with some certainty, the temp probe. Then it's simply back to the schematic to orient the connector. With a warm engine, after allowing drainback time, the level sensor should return to a reading close to what I have cold. FWF, the magnify widget does seem to work, but I had a tough time holding the phone steady. I don't think you'll get much from those pics, but there they are. The pan does appear very much like what you posted in #28. There is a boss cast where it shows to be on that illustration. Oil line return next to it. It's the closest to mine I've seen yet. Which of course reinforces the notion that this sensor pair is indeed installed from inside. The only way to replace it without pan removal is rather radical and I'm not ready to consider it. A hole large enough for a hand could be cut in the side of the deep end, and using the Helen Keller method, all of the sensor hardware could be replaced, everything cleaned up, and if the area the hole was cut was properly prepped, a new piece of AL plate bolted in place with a proper gasket to seal it up. Or the crankcase backpurged and a repair plate TIG welded in place permanently. Not too crazy about that, to be sure. But what if the sensor(s) actually need replacing? What does Volvo have as a solution? Surely something less that removing the engine. OK, I'm tired, so you guys mull it over and tell me how to handle this. All help appreciated.!
OK, so the schematic shows 3 & 4 to be the temp sensor. Since on my sketch the numbers and color are arbitrary, and assuming the temp sensor is a linear change device, then per my sketch it would be 1 & 3. I can see that, but only if on the harness connector the wires are not in sequence. The two wires I identified as 1 & 3 are not adjacent, as might be expected. I still have the old harness, so I can have a good close up look at it, as well as unlock the cover and verify the wire colors per that schematic. That may be all it takes. Just hope the sensor is good.
This might help, with your diligence in wiring, you'll be fine.
Yes, now that should help. I just need that breakout box! J/K...I'll make up what I need. But I see something that doesn't quite fit...SE2203 is listed on the schematic in post #23 as a pressure sensor, SE2202 as a temp sensor. From that passive testing chart: EA31 SE2202, oil temperature, signal EA31 - EA11 R ≈ 2 kΩ (+20 °C / +68 °F) No problem there. 2k at ambient in the upper 90's might actually read closer to what I'm getting, which was actually 1.211k. I probably could live with that, and accept that as good evidence that terminals 1 & 3 on my sketch are indeed the temperature probe connections. However: EB11 SE2203, engine oil pressure, signal EB11 - EB18 R ≈100 k Problem, as I thought we had determined that this dual sensor was a temp and level sensor, not temp and pressure. Unless that is not correct and the level indicator is a separate sensor. Plus, at rest, the measured resistance is low,around 13 ohms. There is no data But then again: EB3 SE2205, engine oil level, low EB3 - EB4 EB4 SE2205, engine oil level, high EB4 - EB3 This would indicate that the level sensor (or switch) would be separate from what we've been looking at. Location not determined. No specific values or range provided. But since it toggles polarities (or switches on for different conditions - high/low) I would guess, since it simply switched from EB3-EB4 to EB4-EB3 (if I'm interpreting this correctly). It makes more sense for this connector to be 2203 and 2205, if is it level/temp. Thoughts?
Looking back at post #28, let's for a moment say that is the correct pan that I have. The level sensor is mounted to the bottom and the feed-thru is mounted on the wall of the pan. So far, so good. Why then, though, is this a 4 wire connector if it is only a level indicator?The illustration in that post shows a single boss cast in the upper section of the pan, and machined to accept what appears to be a sleeve which easily could accept a temperature probe. None of my pictures capture what is in that hole though, and I haven't paid enough attention to it, being focused on the 4 way connector. It would make sense (to me) that it might be a temp probe, matching SE2205. I guess I'll just have to have another look. From all of the illustrations I've seen up to now, the floor mounted level indicator makes sense, but I can't see how a pressure transducer could be placed along side the level sensor.AFAIK, there are no pressurized passages in the pan itself, so I just can't visualize a way for it to be a pressure transducer, despite the schematic appearing to show them as a paired set. Of course, there is also EB28 SE2509, crank case pressure signal EB28 - EB18 R ≈30 - 60 kΩ Which I could see paired with the level sensor, but again this does not agree with the schematic indicating the pairing of E2202 and E2203. Things are adding up, but so far the total doesn't seem correct. I guess this is one side effect of an engine swap. It was supposed to be an exact match, even out of an excavator of the same year, but I don't think anyone ran down the SN to see if things had changed. Might be one is early '05 and the other late. We're getting closer, but not quite there yet.
Tony, you need a stiff drink....or 2 my friend
Im gonna be out of reach for the rest of today until later this evening. I'll do a little digging then. Please repost machine serial and engine model, serial too if possible.
VeTech...I think you're definitely onto something. I already take meds for anxiety (really for BP control, but they keep me calm and allow me to focus) that seem to help my OCD, but haven't had them today lol.. Guess I should take a couple. Ironically, although I do drink some (not like the old days), it's been a while since I had a good belt, and I've been thinking of hitting the package store to restock... FWF, no problem, the owner just called and pulled me off this one for something else. So I'll be rolling this around in my head (there's plenty of room) for the most of the day anyway. I'll be close enough to the machine to take a look at that boss and see what, if anything, is installed there. At least during all of this, I have been able to move the machine to a place that is on higher ground so it's not like I have to crawl around in the mud to get under it. Just roll out my tarp and crawl in. I'll admit to being quite sore in the legs though from all the ups and downs as I fetch and clean up the stuff I drag out. Plus I have a couple of new lumps on my head from getting up directly under the ~10,000 counterweight! I'm just looking forward to solving this riddle. I'll get the numbers and post them again. If I can get to the engine number. I don't recall where it is cast in or tagged. The number I posted I think on the original thread re engine swap I can't recall whether it is the original or replacement block, so it would be best if I get it fresh anyway. I'll be out a while anyway myself. Usually during summer I knock off around 1400 unless I'm on a demand schedule. Rare, but it happens. Today may be one of those though. There is some machine that has to be loaded out Monday for a trip to Alabama. No clue what it is, or what's wrong with it. Maybe I'll get lucky, but one of our contract techs (being polite here) supposedly just green tagged it as ready. The operators seem to disagree. So...I get in my lap at the last minute. Not uncommon, unfortunately. Have a great day!
FWF, here is the pertinent data: 2005 Volvo EC460BLC Engine Family 5VSXL 12 1CE3 Engine Model D12DEAE3. Machine SN is EC460V80211 I could not locate within a quick search the actual engine SN. I may have it in my notes somewhere. I did learn a couple of things today. First, this pan is from the original engine, as are all the computers and sensors (except any that were replaced during the rebuild. Not saying there were any for sure, I don't have an itemized list) The core engine pan had a different profile, which to me casts some doubt about what we were told about it being an exact excavator year and model match, but possibly a mid-year change shouldn't be ruled out. It is the single rear boss, but it is plugged - no probe was ever in the original. Also, I find this interesting: Please note the numbers. So somewhere, somehow, we don't have the correct data yet. It may be a dual sensor, to be sure, but not what we've been saying. Food for thought.
Next, on the original female connector, the sockets are more or less in fixed positions, in a vertically oriented diamond, with the #4 socket aligned at the top, with the cover/shroud oriented up, which is reasonable, considering location. The RTV is holding it in that position, so I am fairly confident that nothing has changed on that old connector. Unfortunately, as you can see in my pics, on the pan side, none of the pins are aligned exactly vertical, and likely due to the 'o' ring seal, that connector can be rotated with just a little effort. Manipulating the new connector to try and get it on there, I have no doubt turned it, so I cannot be sure which of the pins was at the 12:00 position. I'd be home free if I could do that. That 12:00 pin would be #4. The pins are not in sequential orders, but pair. 2-4 are adjacent, and of course 1-3. But once I muddle through the resistance values I have, and gain a bit of confidence that the 13 ohm is the level switch (High or Low only for example), I will feel like I have it right. I guess I'm doing two things here. Sharing my reasoning on this and how I am approaching the problem, and applying the information you guys are providing. Plus a third - Counting on you guys to keep me from making a catastrophic mistake.
FWF, that schematic (post #26)can't be a match for this harness. It has SE2202 and SE2203 paired in one connector. The harness/connector on the machine is clearly marked 2202/2205 (pic). 2202 is oil temp and 2205 is oil level. That makes sense, as far as location and pairing, to me anyway. Just can't see a crankcase pressure sensor there (SE2209). So it's just figuring out which pins are which. Those resistance readings as all I have at this point. I can, as I mentioned before, plot a resistance/temp curve on both pair and see which pair seems to give a reasonable representative pot for temp. I would think the pairs would be drastically difference, given their respective starting points. Sound reasonable? At lease as reasonable as anything so far?
Simple test, drain the oil. Then your 13ohm value should go open. Or point a torpedo heater at the pan for half an hour. Your 13 should stay the same but the 1200 ohm should increase. Then you will have confirmed pin out. Nothing catastrophic will happen if you plug it in wrong. It'll just generate an error. Voltage high, voltage low, oil level low etc.
If it's time (probably is) for an oil change, that would kill two birds, one stone. No power for torpedo where it is, unless I drag a generator around to it, but in upper 90's, more heat isn't the first idea that would pop into my head. But I can just leave my meter jumpered in and crank it. Oil level will drop, temp will come up. The oil level won't (or better not) go to its low level value unless someone hasn't been watching it, and I have checked it cold, sitting overnight and it is not low. I wouldn't expect to see a change there unless I did drain it. But the running temp should rise pretty quickly. I think I'll start with that. Tuesday of course. Our dongle did come in, so I can clear the code now at least.
So, current plan is this. I think I have a 4 position female connector from the old burned harness that I can extend the wires from and use a terminal block from the junk box to bring these 4 sensor leads out where it is more convenient to measure things. I will isolate the 4, careful not to mis-identify the wires, and put a couple of meters on the terminal strip and note the cold, at rest readings. This will be before clearing codes; no point yet. Once I make positive ID, I’ll clear the code and put the cable/connector as I determine to be the correct orientation. Once this proves out, I will use some electrical friendly sealant (where is Phil Swift?), and reposition that fabricated retaining finger so that the connector is secure. I’ll probably use some variant of silicone electrical grease. Then I will make notes in the manual on what I had to do. I can’t thank you guys enough for the hand-holding during this. I’m not formally trained in heavy equipment but I always figure if a man built it, a man can fix it. It just takes some community effort at times. I’ve been working on stuff since I could hold a tool, and never been afraid to dive in, so have learned a lot in the last 50+ years (some professionally I’ll admit). Some day, I hope to be a contributor more than just a sponge. But for now, well, that’s kind of limited. But if I see something I can help with, I certainly will toss in my help. Thanks all, and I’ll let everyone know how this works out. I’m pretty confident at this point.
thanks a lot. help the D13E 128 active for ec460b.