OK, on with the next circus act. Have a 2005 Volvo EC460BLC Engine Family 5VSXL 12 1CE3 Engine Model D12DEAE3. For what it's worth, the machine sn is EC460V80211 Basically, engine is worn out. Excessive blow-by forces oil out of every available opening. So a rebuild or replace is the normal course of action. Right now, the machine is sitting at a reputable diesel shop, with heavy equipment expertise. They are finding that this particular machine Volvo will not or cannot furnish a rebuild kit, but only offers a complete replacement engine at quite a price. Chasing aftermarket parts has not been fruitful, and doesn't sound cost effective. It has been speculated that this machine was built for a foreign market, and there are oddities about the engine that make it impractical to go through, piece by piece and source everything needed. Since I don't know any better, I'd think an in-chassis overhaul might be worth considering. So, the question on the table is whether there is another engine that could be installed. I believe one option (I am told) that is a possibility is a Cummins M11. That's a straight 6 with a bit (quite a bit) more power than the original engine. I've no idea about the compatibility of any of the other parts of the drive system, or any of the controls. To me, it sounds like a large undertaking, but I hereby toss this situation out to the brain trust of HEF. What say ye? Edit: Apparently the M11 was an option in 2002: https://www.proxibid.com/Heavy-Cons...-M11-ENGINE-HEAT-AC/item-information/37929860
Good day Tony Sorry if I appear negative to your suggestion changing the engine to another make may not be so straight forward the D12 electronics are tied into that of the actual machine make's a nightmare to switch it out. I know Volvo excavators used differing cooling matrix on some models for the American market not aware of other changes, the camshafts were a issue at one stage but that engine is very common EC360B also makes use of that model, installing another D12 engine would need to be compatible with the engine ECU as reprogramming the unit is a task to be avoided if possible.The Cummins engine was used on earlier models formally Samsung as to the best of my knowledge never offered as an alternative in the "B" range. Strange you cannot get the parts do you know which parts you are looking for ? Kind regards Uffex
foot note just made a brief search came up with this one not so far from you may be worth a call [email protected] KR Uffex
Suggest contacting dealer for kit number 3099100. This is a complete in frame kit. No cylinder head or related, no water pump. Hope this helps.
Uffex, don't apologize for being realistic. That's why I am here asking questions. Knowing what little I do about it, I would be hesitant to recommend to the customer such an engine swap myself. But they wanted to explore the possibility/feasibility of such a swap. It may be that unbeknownst to me there is an M11 in the yard somewhere yearning to be used . Kind of doubt that, but it's not impossible. Any time I've seen a swap that involves such a major change such as the base mfg, it's never as straightforward as hoped. I don't know, or think that the owner has an issue with the D12 in itself, it's just that going from the engine shop feedback makes it sound problematic. If there is a kit available, then I'll pass that along to the engine guys and see what they can come up with. Getting a water pump shouldn't be a problem, and I can't imagine there would be a big problem reworking the heads. They're a reputable shop, 4 generation family owned, and personal friends of mine. I'll get back with them with the suggested kit number and see if that is a number they have already attempted to source. (Thank you funwithfuel) I will also check with dieselrebuildkits and see if they can help. Many thanks, and have a good day, both of you! (evening in the case of Uffex) t
funwithfuel, all I have been able to come up with using that part number is a head gasket. Not much success on kit finding yet.
Woops, 3099100 is in fact head set. You will need that with kit 11715806. That kit includes rods, mains and cam bearings. 6 liner kits and a bunch of gaskets and seals. Does not include the separate head set. However the bottom end kit includes valve seals, ??? Go figure. This should get you square, sorry for the confusion.
OK, found a couple of potential suppliers. One is an SLP (Swedish Lorry Parts) importer in Stratford, CT and the other is Fayetteville GA. Have inquiries out to them now. Certainly seems there are some oddities with the kits, but the engine shop guys will sort all that out. May have some success with this after all. Really didn't want to try and source a used D12. Rather go through the one I have. Shame the local Volvo dealer doesn't seem interested. Guess they want to get a rebuild job out of this. I think they are over-priced though, so shopping I will go! Thanks, funwithfuel!
Have you tried Rudd in Indiana, I hear their parts people are great, just what I've heard
No, I haven't yet. I'll put them on the list. Thanks!
Well, after lining up all the hard to find bits and pieces for a rebuild, upon teardown my engine guys found cyl #1 liner to be epoxied/JB welded in, piston cooling nozzle broken in #2 with valves beating on the piston, #6 has broken rings, and there are missing/chewed up teeth on the front gear train. So...now I'm hunting either a rebuildable block, or a reman engine. Fun fun!
Good day Tony May be you already know that the engine shares a lot of common components with the truck and gen sets, it will maybe widen your sourcing scope. Kind regards Uffex
Greetings, Uffex. Yes, I have discovered the many optional builds available in the D12 family. My engine guys are also on the hunt for a possible route, and they are more familiar than I with the subtle differences so I intend to mostly locate possible sources and connect my engine shop with them. It seems there are a few companies offering remans, used, and even bare blocks. Not sure I want to go that far, but may have to consider it. Then of course, I'll have to deal with the head. The turbo seems to have eaten a lot of grit, telling a tale of poor filter maintenance so will see if it is rebuild worthy. Radiator cleanout is on the menu since we re this far in. Good day to you, Uffex, Tony
OK....maybe. I hope someone here understands or has access to a secret decoder ring to tell me what the specific differences are between these two engines: The one I sourced. Reman (factory I believe) pulled running and tested. The original, which I went to look at today at the engine shop. Someone should be ashamed of themselves to have reassembled this engine and put it up for sale. If I can't part it out, I may encase it in concrete and give it a decent burial. The question(s) naturally are based on substituting the 4VSXL for the 5VSXL. What are the differences? Engine guys are leaning towards sensors mostly, which would be good, because I would be able to use the original ECM with the "new" engine. I don't know or have a way to find out what the specific differences are and if they are significant. I am told the reman did come out of a EC460BLC, so I have some hope. Anyone want to wade into this one?
You may run into an issue with the emissions police. The D12C has simple rocker arm system , while the D12D has an integrated EGR system which uses a funky exhaust rocker arm to reintroduce exhaust gas to minimize NOx. Primitive, but effective when they didn't break. I think that you'll be fine with that engine, however you're going to have a miscommunication with ECU's They will communicate, they will work but may log errors for ECU mismatch. Are you using this engine as a parts donor to rebuild the original, or are you planning a drop in ready to rock sorta thing.
the donor engine is from an early serial EC460B 10001-11514 That model as mentioned earlier, had a simple rocker arm system, it also had a very crude instrument panel which was a bunch of idiot lights and a pair of gauges. The information was conveyed through a little red display on the right side arm rest. Your serial machine has a thinking instrument display with LCD display integrated . I don't think this is gonna work the way you want it to.
The found engine is a good, running pull, so the hope is that it could be installed in the machine, any/all controls or sensors transferred to the reman engine and not have to mess with changing the ECU. With a complete engine just removed from the machine sitting on a stand nearby, it should be simple enough to see if there are places on the reman to stick the sensors or whatnot. I don't know what all the system monitors other than the basic stuff like water temp, oil pressure, etc. I wouldn't think too much or that if there wasn't a place (tapped hole, port in the manifold, etc) we couldn't manage a way to either "fool" the ECU with a dummy input or figure a way to mount whatever sensor that was not used on the reman originally. Now if there are solenoids or actuators driven by the engine management system that there are no provision for on the reman, it might get more complicated. Getting the ECU from the donor is probably not easy, if even possible. I think we are wanting to do just the opposite of what you said. We want the reman engine to impersonate the dead one. Whatever EGR system was on the dead one may transfer to the reman, but how to deal with the extra pieces in the exhaust system I don't know. Might be possible to simply omit them. No idea what specifically that system consists of. Realistically, not overly concerned with NOX, unless there is a measurement system integrated into the control package that would be unhappy with high readings, or no readings at all.
No NOx sensors. Back then it was just applied as calculated, not as needed. Difference between the 2 Injector, one is Delphi the other Bosch so harness is different as well. Rocker arms, as mentioned. Camshaft too. Piston / liner kits. I believe that the non EGR is of higher compression without modded combustion chamber to support EGR. Oil control valve. D12C is just a passage while D12D has limiting solenoid, again, for EGR. Externally, they are identical. There are no differences on the outside. All sensors and locations are consistent. Ordering parts in the future will be a challenge. You'll have a red headed step child for sure. Not to mention the legality. As innocent as it sounds, you are legally tampering or defeating an emissions control device. This carries ridiculous fines and assessments. It's just not worth it. You can legally replace a D12C w/ a D12D or any subsequent model but can never go back. It's stupid, I agree, but these are the times we live in. Remember that when you cast your ballots.
Kind of like automotive. Have to comply with whichever is newest, chassis or engine (in most states that care at all). I'm aware of the anti-tampering regs, but bottom line is that if it meets latest year emissions you can get by with it, in my experience. You're right, it would end up a mongrel, and may not be much fun down the line to work on. With no core return required, is there a way to hybrid these two? That's what it's coming down to. Since even Volvo admits the original engine is a bit unique, the odds of finding another identical to it aren't looking too good. Funny that on the build tags they both state that they comply with 2005 requirements even though they are slightly different series. Even though one was reman in '16.
The engine family number that starts with a 4 is a model year code for 2004 despite that the sticker says 2005. Also you can see the difference in the emissions control systems part of the tag where it says the methods used to comply: (EM = Engine Modification) (ECM you know) (TC = turbocharger) (CAC = Charge Air Cooler) and finally EGR on the last one. So the reman one has a bit of a strange tag on it, sometimes manufacturers used credits or paid fines to put older emissions engines in newer machines beyond when they would normally be found. But on the other hand if the reman engine truly meets 2005 spec, who is to say you can't use it? Most documents I have seen on the subject seem to say it has to meet the same or newer model year which the plain number on the tag seems to indicate. But the ECM is part of the system and has to go with the engine I am sure also for regulatory reasons.
I'd have to cross match all components one by one. I can tell you that block, crank and rods are the same without reservations. I do know that pistons are different, head should be the same. Front gear case and flywheel housing are the same. Cam , valve train and injectors are different. It looks like, to do it right, you're going to have to build 2 into 1 and make it a D12D
What that would boil down to is still a matter of the ECU and changing backwards to a dumb cab though, correct? Or is there a way to integrate the newer parts of the control system into the older engine? If every update could be moved to the older engine, then it may be possible. Head being the same is good, since the existing head is no good. Are the cams interchangeable in themselves then? It would seem the newer EGR system could be transplanted since it gets away from a mechanical rocker style.
Yes, its all interchangeable to the best of my knowledge. The newer head had floating valve bridges, the earlier had guide posts w/ T-bridges. IIRC. My biggest concern is that pistons and liners are different. By how much, I cannot say. Like I said , this is gonna have to be scrutinized line by line. Since I'm no longer a dealer tech, I dont have access to updates and bulletins to clarify changes.
OK, not being so familiar with the role the pistons and liners would play in this game, since the reman is fairly fresh, is that really a concern currently, or are you speaking of later-in-life issues?
Pin to crown height and depth below deck. I'd hate to hear you did all this work and then bend all the valves the first time the EGR comes in
Yeah, that would be a wet blanket for sure. So, that being the case, then the EGR system needs to stay with the block it was originally installed on. Which brings us full circle to the ECU I think.
It may be as simple as redesigned ring packs, I'm just looking at worse case scenario. Pull the head and measure twice. If the combustion chamber area looks similar and the piston height is the same, rock on. I would definitely want to keep the aspects of the D vs the C .
I wish I had possession of the reman engine. I'd buy the gaskets to remove the head and do some study and measurements. But at this point, I am trying to decide on buying it or not, hoping that it is something I can use as is, or convert. For me personally, many unknowns are making this difficult. And naturally, I'm in a hurry. I am short on equipment and need this 460 back on line. But if this is a complete engine, and all connections are there for the ECU, what would stop me from dropping it in? If the EGR system is 2005 compliant, as the tag says, and it is not ECU controlled....what is left that won't work?
On the D12C, just briefly, can you explain how the EGR system works? (Question to anyone) I'm trying to visualize how the valvetrain differs between the C and the D. Wish I had a C on hand to study. If the head is the same between the two, I can easily see the cam being different, and that leaves the rockers as the likely place where things got changed between the C and D. If that's the case, assuming the cam would change over also, can the rest of the valve train be moved to the C, thus operating like the D? Or did Volvo change things to prevent that? Basically, I can't see a practical way to use the C as is in my D machine. So if there is a way to change the EGR system, which appears to be the main difference, sounds like I could use parts from my D on the reman C and get by. I know I am grasping a but, but I've had no luck so far. When I found that C I thought maybe it could solve my problems. Not working out as smoothly as I'd hoped.
The exhaust rocker has a hook on the roller side that hands over the cam. There is a hydraulic piston between the hook and rocker. The hook is integral to the rocker on a fulcrum or pivot. The rocker shaft is fed via the EGR solenoid approximately 35-45 psi through a restriction. That is oil for lubrication purposes only. Now, when the ECU decides EGR is necessary, it energizes the solenoid that feeds the rocker shaft. Now you have full unregulated oil from main gallery feeding rocker shaft faster than it can purge. As a result the pistons in the exhaust rockets pump up causing the lash between the hook and cam to diminish. Now when the ramps for the exhaust come around, approximately 120* the hook impacts the cam profile and opens the valves putting exhaust back in on the intake stroke.
Tier 3 engines in this horsepower range started in 2006 which indicates either engine only has to comply with Tier 2 regulations for the US. https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100OA05.pdf I don't think the EPA is a concern for either engine. Here is another little tidbit about EGR requirements for Tier 2: Tier 2 and later model naturally aspirated nonroad engines shall not discharge crankcase emissions into the atmosphere unless these emissions are permanently routed into the exhaust. This prohibition does not apply to engines using turbochargers, pumps, blowers, or superchargers.
So essentially the ECU changes the cam profile to open the ex valves at some point during the intake stroke. The lift, based on the cam base circle cannot exceed the normal lift during the exhaust stroke or risk compressing the valve spring beyond normal and risk going solid. Possibly even to 100% of it's compressed length without risk to the spring and/or any other parts in the train subject to excessive stress. Then it becomes a matter of timing in relation to piston position. These are potentially interference engines, so the solenoid energize timing has to coincide with the stroke in such a way to avoid a collision. Hence a position sensor somewhere to keep the timing of the EGR solenoid correct. I have to think each cylinder is handles independently so this only happens on the intake stroke. If the ECU is from an engine that uses that technique, and that style rocker and solenoid system were not present or functional then there would likely be a code thrown of some kind since all that wasn't happening. So if I try to stay with the existing ECU, I can't use that style EGR system. But what happens if I change the entire valve train, including the cam, to the newer style?
John, that's what I was thinking. If either/both these engines are stickered 2005, that's what I need to comply with, regardless of whatever EGR system they use, since both styles will meet the 2005 standard.
In the images I swiped off the net you might be able to better visualize what I was trying to describe. The cam profile remains the same. It's just where the rise comes in . For the most part the rocker follows the cam via the roller. The roller is inboard of the cam center line. The I-EGR is outboard. It is the big chrome paddle hanging over the cam at about 100* or so . When the piston or actuator gets pumped up, the hook comes down closer to the cam profile and the cam strikes it then the valve pop open. So you see, when energized you know have to exhaust valve opening events on the same cam with only one profile. I hope this clears it up
I didn't mean physically change the cam profile, but functionally. Essentially then, the exhaust valve is held open, or opened again later by this "second" follower when the oil pressure is up due to the control solenoid. This give or increases any overlap of the intake/exhaust valve openings. Got it. Kind of visualized something like that, but that clears it up. Thanks for hunting down the pics. Since that's what is on the older style engine, I can see that the ECU that manages the oil control solenoid would need to be moved from the same machine. Hence the complication. If that was not done, even though all the other I/O devices were present, there would be no EGR at all without it. The engine would probably run ok, but not in compliance. There would be nothing to drive the oil control solenoid to increase the pressure to activate that rocker assembly. Of course, that begs the question of how EGR is handled on the newer style engine. I hate putting out all of these questions, but the dealer gives me the old "deer-in-the-headlights" look when I ask for explanations on things like this. I'm simply trying to see if there is a way to use the engine I have a line on, which happens to be the older style. I'm sure there are some people who would simply leave the control solenoid disconnected and not fret about EGR compliance, and I don't know how the ECU would react beyond throwing codes, but I'd bet it's been tried. Edit to add: What triggers the ECU to activate the oil control solenoid? (old style)
I'm sure it has. Believe it or not, I don't think it throws a code, I believe you wind up with a hard start condition. If memory serves. The other bigger factor, the injectors are different. The newer Bosch don't require trim codes, the older Delphi do. Plus, one head or the other has a larger injector harness plug opening
The EGR was not required by law in the time period. What I see as your issue with the ECU and the older engine, is if the ECU connects machine performance to the input of a malfunctioning EGR. It might have provision of putting the machine in a default operation mode or shutting you down completely. Sounds like a lot of complications just to get the machine running again.
So pretty much I have to use the head from the existing (newer style) engine, provided they are interchangeable. That would seem to solve both the EGR and injector issues, right? But, I hate to buy a complete, running engine and then have to track down a head. The existing head is no good, per my engine shop. At a glance, I didn't see much seriously wrong with it. Cylinder #1 has had 3 of the 4 valves replaced, indicating there was something bad going on there, but unless I sent it to a head shop for inspection, I can't know for sure it's truly scrap. I suppose I could try to sell the head from the purchased engine and recover some of the cost. Seems like a lot of trouble to get where I'm going. So far though, I haven't had much success locating a replacement engine. It all started with what we all thought was excessive blowby from a worn out engine in need of a rebuild. Teardown revealed different. John, that's the million dollar question....what happens if the ECU from the newer machine does detect a lack of EGR? If it's not required, I'm willing to forego it. But if, as funwithfuel says, other issues arise, then that's not the right answer. Or as you mentioned, I can't run in limp mode or deal with a total shutdown. Maybe someone needs to take away my shovel. I seem to be digging myself in deeper and deeper. I wish I could just locate the proper engine.
That's cyl#1 head shot. It does appear that something rattled around a bit in there. It doesn't look too good.
For your entertainment
That is poor coolant maintenance. That's what happens when you mix EG coolant with OAT coolant. You get silica dropout. A pressure washer through the coolant passageways should knock that loose and clean right up. It won't help with the piston cooling jets. You still have that going . Your sealing grooves all look to be intact. That's why that piston scored also. The liner got hot and squeezed it. Would be my guess. Worse case I've ever seen. I'll bet there's some stop leak in that crust. Which brings to mind, dont let the radiator shop just check your radiator. Make sure to have them remove the tanks and rod the core out.
Send engine to FWF, let him rebuild it as side work for $????...……….problem solved!
You sick sad little monkey. I don't do stuff like that anymore.
That scored piston was #6, btw. Odd how the material accumulated around #1 though. The head still would be a problem, it seems to me. From the overzealous use of a scotchbrite pad, it's not flat. You can see leakage evidence in the upper left area just at the edge of where the gasket should seal. Probably could be cleaned up my machining, though. The pitting or holes from whatever rattled around in there would worry me though. I'll get the guys to clean up those seal grooves to make sure they are indeed ok. The plan was to have the radiator rodded anyway. I worked in a relatives radiator shop for a little while. Long enough to know I didn't like it. Especially the big truck radiators, but that's where the money was. We had a contract with one of the local concrete companies, so had plenty to do. Once autozone, etc. started selling new completes cheaper than our cost to recore one (with a decent core, not the junk they sold), no one wanted to fix theirs all of the sudden. Cheaper to just go buy one. So from those pics., maybe the block isn't toast, eh. Well, I'll see what my engine guys say. It's an old shop, 3rd and 4th generations working there. Lots of experience, and I trust them. I hope they find you're right. Would simplify things a great deal. That is, if I can save the head, or locate another one. Thanks for the observations.
Just trying to help you with your retirement fund!
What's the VE signify in the series VED12D? Found a reman head, but can't get anyone to commit to a fit. Sending the block to a machine shop to see if they can salvage the seal grooves in #1. There is some minor damage. I'm finding D12D engine all over the world, but not going through all that hassle and time. Found a NOS in China. $32k+
So after scan reading through this quickly this morning, The D12C would be a pain in the *** to swap into your EC, mainly down to the fact you would need and ECU and engine loom to go with it. But it would be a way of future proofing any further problems. Interestingly Volvo did a version that could be perfect for you... Part No. 8188746, D12D TIER3, BASED TIER2 S/N 12523 - 12649, (8279676, 8288735) if i'm reading it right a Tier3 engine based on a Tier2? or is it the other way round????? The Egr head ( which is actually only valve seats valves and the rocker arm ) is the stumbling point. but if the above is correct it could be a winner. The VE is just a joint venture between Volvo and Eicher motors to make engines for Volvo, so that should be a good engine.
There should be stamped in the front of the head , the part number and serial number. It'll be faint with those fine dot printing, but it should be there. That may help in getting the correct head, if yours can't be saved.
@sfrs4 That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Swapping in a C would not be worth all the trouble. So basically at this point, I'm trying to make a determination on my block and if it can be salvaged, and sourcing a replacement head. Then there would be no need of an ECU swap with the associated hassle, expense and changes and the cab. @funwithfuel Thanks for that info. I'll talk to my engine guys today and get that PN and SN to see what I can find. Worst case is that the block is indeed scrap due to damage to the seal grooves and I have to find a D engine of some sort. I don't want to buy a NOS engine, so that leaves a buildable block or running, low hours engine as my preferred finds. You mentioned a possible hard start condition as a side effect of using a C style head and d/c the oil control solenoid. Been thinking about that. Why would that cause a hard start? Thanks for the discussion, guys. It's helping sort this out.
The hard start mentioned would be if you lost power to the circuit that feeds oil control valve. It would allow full oil to rocker shaft, it would be the same as trying to start with all three Jake's on full retard on a road truck.
The head part number is a bit misleading, we broke a D9B engine a couple of months ago, punched the part number on the head into prosis......nothing, gave it to some friends in the truck world......nothing, gave it to some friends in the marine industry came back as some obscure D9 variant they had, once we started down the route of checking all the part numbers on bits we could find it turns out the straight D9B engine with no prefix after it is a right mongrel of an engine with bits robbed from all over the Volvo world. ( this was a genuine factory engine as far as we knew, all original gaskets etc no sign of a rebuild) Had a quick look at the part numbers for your cylinder head and it goes a little some thing like this, original part number 20560799 ss to 21086450 which in turn ss to 22012779 interestingly that last number opens up a few more machines to steel from lol EC330B/C EC360B/C EC460B/C A40D A35D/E L150E/F L180E/F L220F
Loader and hauler will require flywheel, bellhousing and front cover assembly to be swapped out. If you select an engine from any of them. Great point though, my apologies for my narrow point of view.
Yeah. I was meaning more along the lines of use and engine as a donor block and head, to put all the goodies on from Tony's engine onto.
VOE20560799 is stamped on the front of the head I have located. Doesn't line up with most of the other part numbers I have seen so far on Volvo. That is the only number seen so far, from a wire brush scrubbing. No planning on vatting a scrap head. Could that be a SN?
Agreed. My buddy's core handler will have to be certain it is an excavator engine I suppose, unless all the parts mentioned (all rotating mass parts) would swap over. If the absolute bare block is identical, then we could be ok. Pity, or maybe they do, that Volvo doesn't track engine SN's all the way back to original build. I could get a dealer lookup and see just exactly where it's been and who it's friends are....background check
Go back and look at posting 51 by sfrs4. That is your part number and he lists out 2 additional superseding part numbers for that same head.
Yep, missed that....quite correct. Thanks!
So this head I located, rebuilt and ready, is Stock Number 504-11723 (dealer stock number I'm sure) MLS Number 9493374 (no idea what number system this is from) Part Number 8170101 (Volvo part??) That's supposed to be off a unknown year VED12D. Will it interchange? Comes from: https://www.mylittlesalesman.com/volvo-reman-d12d-cylinder-head-9493374
From what I see the 20560799 Head is common to all D12D T3 engines used by VCE. The head you linked to is from a truck parts dealer so most likely it is a truck part and without knowing the components used it is hard to say whether it is the same. I would bet it is different. Another thing to consider id the head looks like it has copper cups and you would need to determine if you the older injectors that use the copper cups or if your engine has been upgraded to the conical seat injectors which use the stainless cups. If you have a mismatch you will have to swap out cups for the correct ones. Also a reman Volvo head comes with stainless cups only, in the event you go that direction.
OK, we have a plan that we kicked into gear today. My engine guys know a core dealer who has a matching engine that runs, but has blowby and needs a rebuild. Just exactly what I thought I had in the 460 to begin with, so basically I'm back at the beginning of this saga, but with an engine that is not trashed. It's reasonably priced and in the end this job will cost about the same as the original proposal. So we're off high-center and moving. Of course, when the replacement engine gets here, it will get a teardown, and it's guaranteed to be a rebuildable engine. That will be confirmed before putting much work or any money in it. I sure appreciate all the information you guys all provided in this thread. It helped a lot. Probably prevented me from making a mistake or three. Just for kicks, and possibly to share some satisfaction, I may post progress reports and a final green tag for the machine. Now I'll just worry about the transmission and running gear........ Thanks again all. Tony
It is always better to put the right thing back than to make something else fit. Always those unforeseen slip-ups that waste days and hundreds of dollars. This sounds much better. Plus people will be able to fix it in the future without scratching their heads about what it is.
Progress reports are great! Can we at least make this thread 65 + pages? I've been looking for a new record and everyone's been getting their equipment fixed too quick.
I'm a firm believer in not creating mongrels. I spend (read:waste) too much time fixing equipment that comes into the shop already "fixed" in that manner. I suppose it's not the tech/mechanic's fault most of the time, but is a result of pressure from above to get a piece of equipment back in production asap. Of course, that wouldn't always apply to contract service guys, at least most of the time. I'd say they would be guilty of it because of no care for the next guy to work on it, trying to make a quick buck themselves, or other "reasons". What I've determined is that in most cases it takes more time just to figure out what someone else has done to the machine than to undo it and repair it correctly. Coming from a machinist background, and in QA/QC for a good bit of that career, plus a dose of OCD....I don't have a chance. I get irked seeing such shortcuts taken and so-called repairs fail when they show up in the shop. I'm just glad I don't have that "stuck" feeling on this one any more. It was beginning to look like I was going to be forced to buy a new engine, which I did find, but it was more than I had budgeted and I didn't care for dealing with the source. At least the decisions are made and work is underway. It appears that it may be the end of the year before I get it back in the yard, so I may miss the writeoff, but it will be there for next year. @Vetech63 ....we just made it to post #63, so unless I post a lot of pictures, I don't think we're going to get 65 pages out of this one LOL. I don't plan on keeping that close tabs on it. The engine shop is about an hour away, and I don't intend to bird-dog them. I have too much other work to send and don't want them to start dreading my visits and phone calls. On with the show!
Great news on finding a refurbish-able engine, keep us updated with your progress. always nice to see them getting built.
Kind of hate to do it this way, but it's the same machine, so I guess it's part of the saga. Got a call to look at it today about a thumb operation issue. Easy fix, op had bumped the hammer/shear switch out and the joystick buttons ceased to function. However, there is a code set now, and it doesn't seem possible for it to be remotely related from what I've found so far. Red flashing alarm lamp atop the display, and a code "128 100 3" showing. All I find is oil pressure related, possibly overvoltage on the 5 volt side, or shorted. I'm not too confident I've found the right code list, but it seems there is a standard for them, SAE J1939. Anyone care/able to add to that? Should be a test procedure somewhere for it. Does Volvo utilize that SAE standard?
The B series did use SAE codes. FMI 3 voltage high would indicate signal wire shorted to power or open circuit from 5v to signal via sensor. Simplest thing is check to see if its plugged in all the way, check condition of terminals. Measure voltage on 3 terminals. Ground , 5v and nothing. If you back probe the wire with no voltage when plugged in and running, you should see between. 5v and 4.5 volts. Good luck
Thanks funwithfuel. I guess that's on the menu today. Supposed to start rain tomorrow and I'd rather do this before it starts. That would be 0.5-4.5 volts, correct? It's the signal correlating to oil pressure if I read correctly what I found.
Tony Just be aware some early machines could be 4 wire sensors that include oil temp. Later machines were only oil temp. As FWF said you should see roughly 5v on the supply and with KOEO 0.5v on the signal wire. With the code you have I will bet you see 5v on the signal as well. Like said either loose connector, bad sensor or circuit is interrupted on the supply or signal wires.
Glad you mentioned that, Ben. I may have passed over a 4 wire sensor by mistake while looking for a 3 wire. Right off the top of my head I don't recall the exact location of the oil pressure sensor, so I'll e digging around a bit. There aren't that many sensors on the engine, as I recall so it shouldn't be too hard to locate. Hopefully it is just a faulty sensor or better yet, a bad connection. This machine operates in a very dusty environment, and connection issues are common on it. This one is 15 years old, with a 1 year old complete rebuild on the engine. Runs very nicely, my engine guys did a great job.
This may help Kind regards Uffex
Opps pasting issue
Thanks, uffex, that will help. Looks a little awkward to get to, but so be it. Didn't get to it today. Hotter fires. It's the 3rd or fourth digger in the yard, so they can let it sit a day or two.