Here are a few pictures of my wabco.It's amazing how far ahead of thier time they were.It's powerd by an 8 V 71 detoit,backed up by a 300 volt 3 phase generater and 5 speed tranny.The steering and load chain are powered by electricity.It works great.
Nice pics! I remember seeing a lot of those around when I was a kid.
yes i operatedone about 6 yrs ago when i Lived in Columbia S.C. it was what i call a hoss it had alot grunt power pure Horse Power
Nice pics. What years were these made with that electrical setup?
I'd say wabco used this setup from the middle 1950's to the mid 1970's The later models used a tourque converter.Mine is a 1962 model.Wabco had a plant in peoria ILL.I dont use it often ,but when I need it ,it's handy.You would think whith all the wiring,transformers,rectafiers,swiches that it would be a nightmare.But I dont have much trouble with it.
Great photos 25c looks to be in good order. bevan
Hey 25c, I like your c-pull it looks twice the size of my 111A. I'm still wrenching on mine. I have been doing other things the last couple of days, plowing, discing, etc. This weekend I should get back to the scraper. I'll let you know how it goes. Your pics make me want to run it .....Frank
111A and D pulls Your C pull is beautiful. We ran D pulls and 111A's and a 222F and a 222G. You will never find a machine that will out grade these. Very little motor grader work behind these Wabcos. For an all elecric machine hey were awsum. With the proper care they will work trouble free until they wear out. Then they are rebuildable. We still have 6 of them parked in the field, and we quit road work nearly 6 years ago. Do you want any of them? [email protected]
Thank's guys for the nice comments.It's an old c-pull that just wont quit.Wabco built them for the "long haul".It's one of my favorite tools to operate.I look at the self loading scraper as a Dozer,grader,dump truck,compaction roller,and finish tool combined into one piece of equipment.In good conditions,one man can move alot of dirt in a day and have a nice finished grade when he's done.The 3 phase motors without brushes are almost indesructable.The steering is fast and responsive.I like the wabco's.
I have a Wabco D pull scraper I am in need of a rectifier numbers T F 577 and 613956 do ypu have any parts also I might be interested in the purchase of one of the units you have in the field my name is Don Stewart Email is [email protected] cell phone 740 207 0957 O live ib Pataskala Ohio it is near Columbus Ohio
My father had a C Pull years ago. ( Had V PULL PAINTED ON THE SIDE) She took of one day ( Dropped the alternator of the back of the motor and ran into a tree. 2nd gear to Lucky. The last mek'o hadn't tightened the bolts up properly ) Apart from that she was a GEM. Beautiful Tractor mate look after her.
That sounds like a wild ride your father took on the C Pull CatGrader.Is it possible your fathers scraper had (V Power) painted on the side.We gave the old C Pull a makeover last summer with paint & decals and they used (V Power) decal on the side of the tractor unit.We had a lake job in july 2011 I used the wabco on.Had about 25,000 yards for the dam,most of the hauls were 400 to 800 feet.Perfect job for the wabco.In the picture I was diging the keyway.The old pull worked great....Hard to belive its 50 years old & still hauling.
Not to change the subject of thread...but...where the heck you been TD? You've had us worried stupid! Welcome back.
Yeah sorry Td my bad. It was V Power and LETOURNEAU-WESTINGHOUSE TOURNAPULL exactly like your picture there she had the cab on to. I got a few pictures here some wares. That tractor you got there looks to be in fine condition. PS glad to see you have your earmuffs on. lol
We had a pretty busy year in 2011 willie59.I done this lake job in the summer and as soon as I started it the dang cell phone kept ringing for service calls ,welding jobs,few crane jobs and the like.We took care of everyone ok and all went well.Dont worry willie59,I also got to turn some wrenches on the wabco while on the lake job,LOL! We stripped the top soil off ,finnished the keyway,and got to the point where I could just stay on the scraper & haul dirt . Then the worst happend...Noticed smoke out the left bank and slight miss then 20 seconds later the engine locked up tighter than a jug.What happend was a sleeve came apart at the intake ports leaving the upper half in the block & lower half got ground to bits in the crankcase.We call it "Jerkin A Sleeve" , LOL! Long story short I ended up giving the wabco an "in frame" overhaul at the job site.
Nothing like working on a detroit on a job site LOL!
LoL, I love the jobsite work table TD.
I also had a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood shop floor under the wabco willie:lmao
And, of course, a shop must have an overhead crane, which a Holmes does nicely.
That doesn't look fun... Welcome back TD.
Yes willie the holmes is just as important as the table & chair.I really dont mind wrenching on equipment ScottAR,I just hate doing it in the middle of a job but thats usually when something go's wrong.I even got to do a little surgery on the block where the rod went through,that was real cute.Kind of has a frankenstein monster look now
MMM... inspection port, now we can check to see what kind of parts your hot rod has in it,, Nice fix by the way, is this a temp thing until you find a replacement, or run it until she's done..
I don't see any reason why that shouldn't work where the damage is,especially if those three cracks were relief drilled at the ends of them. Did you slather the block and patch with some thickened epoxy like Marine-Tex or did you use something else?
Alas, nothing ever breaks in front of the shop door. Nice fix.
Thats funny you mention the inspection port heavylift,the farmer that we were building the lake for said we may as well knock a few more holes in the block then next time we could work on the engine without pullin the oil pan I'l probably just keep running it like it is,the patch seems to hold fine with no leaks.We did a complete in frame overhaul on the bottom end,rolled in new rod & main bearings,new piston & sleeves.I did take the cylinder heads back to shop to rework them,had to replace one bent valve and just lapped the rest with some compound.I also replaced all 32 valve springs.The hardest part was getting all the metal out of the engine,I pulled the blower and it looked like a bomb went off in the air box,oil pan was the same.Spent allot of time using a shop vac & magnet. I ordered the engine rebuild kit from www.btmccorp.com I've used 3 engine kits from this company in the past on cummins and detroit engines and have nothing but good things to say about them.They know what there doing,service is quick,price is great! Parts in my kit were all federal mogul and sleeves all fit great in the block. I just used regular rtv silicone gasket sealer on the patch TCS,I did gombo it up pretty good and put it on all the bolts before I installed them. Boy aint that the truth scott.Only time i ever had a break down in front of the shop door was when the shop door fell of the track:lmao
Are you sure that is the right link for the after market engine parts? I clicked on it and got something that looked different.Just asking because I am always looking for rebuild parts alternatives.
Pretty sure it's the right one TCS, I agree with you that the website dosent look like what you might expect for aftermaket parts sales. Google btmc corp and at the top of the page it describes them as supplying parts for truck and equipment engines, click on and thats the site I linked up.
Ok thanks td25c..... I'll investigate it further. The way prices of rebuild kits have gone searching for good quality lower priced ones is crucial.
I gave btmc a call this morning using the 800 number listed on the contact page,sure enough it's the correct site.I had to wait a little for the receptionist to pick up then she could direct me to the engine department.I did ask her about the current website layout and she said it was an old format that they needed to update.It might also be just as easy to email them with your info nowdays.
Nice pictures, looks just like mine except I have some heavy roll bars and roof. I am in need of electrical parts, like the contactors that control power to the steering and chain motors. Can you tell me where to start looking? Thanks
Thats a good question markmox.The contacts on my switches are getting a little nasty as well.My thought is to check with a big electrical supplyer and see if they could mach up some available contactors to my old ones,or maby fabricate new ones.Another option might be to replace the whole switch with a modern version. Kirby risk is a big supplyer in my area www.kirbyrisk.com I lost a steering motor on the last job "burnt windings",luckilly I had a spare motor to install and finnish the job. I did talk to www.jasperelectricmotors.com and they were confident they could re-wind my old motor or the generator if need be.I'l probably take them the motor this winter and see how that go's.
We have a simular unit, a L. T. Westinghouse C roadster with a p-19 carrayall. It works well for a few hours then the winches become sluggish and then quit entirely. Is this a low voltage problem ? I assume the controll circuts are 24 volts?? Positive ground?? Does anyone have a wireing or circut diagram for this unit??
C222 Scrapper electrical mech wanted Does anyone have access to the service manual with electrical drawing for C Tournapul 222 with Hancock scrapper? I need to trace wiring issues. Thanks, Mark
This is what's in the C - Pull manual . Best I could do scanning it in . This outfit has some Wabco manuals . Scroll down & look though them . http://www.ssbtractor.com/miscellaneous_tractor_manuals_18.html Anyhow , what's not working on your WABCO ?
I'm interested too, Used to do a ton of Wabco work In the day (B-70s with 333 elevating scrapers up to the 353's). The only C-pull manual I have is for the conventional scrapers.
Yeah RZucker , funny story on myself . When I first went to look at the C-Pull before buying it was amazed & dazed by wiring & electrical involved . Thought to myself at the time "This is crazy running a Detroit power plant through a 3 phase generator , clutch & 5 speed crash box ! " Almost passed on it . Seller was an old school WABCO guy & assured me the electrical stuff was generally simple problems like broken wire or bad connection some where . He was rite , most of it is simple .
Wabco C electrical issues Thanks for the picture, but the resolution isn't enough to work for me. I will try to find a book like you have. I lost all control of the turning and elevating. Last night I found a broken wire at the main switch that goes down below the floor. This may provide power to the DC contractors that control the single phase high voltage contactors on the panel near the steering motor. Some speculation here as I don't have the drawings that you have. If you can tell me the title of your service manual I can hopefully find one like it. Thank you so much. It is not easy finding information about these old machines. I've had mine for almost 30 years, using it for projects on the farm. Now I'm hoping it will help me build a private air strip, a life long dream.
Markmox, do yourself a big favor and please DO NOT work on that system with the engine running until you have a book and thoroughly understand it. With the DC main switch on and engine running, the 3 phase system is carrying 360-380V AC phase to phase and the steering and elevator control circuits are in excess of 300v AC. At 1800 RPM this AC power is 120 HZ that actually makes it much more efficient at killing you. I have never feared these machines, but I have a hell of a lot of respect for them. The later hydraulic steer machines were easier to diagnose because the three phase was off 'til you switched the elevator on.
My book is titled "Model C Tractor & Trail Units service manual " . So far on the net the ssbtractor site is the only place I've spotted any Wabco C manuals . http://www.ssbtractor.com/miscellaneous_tractor_manuals_18.html Have to look close & scroll down the manual listings . Two that look promising were " Tournapull C service manual " 232 pages at $ 45.07 And "Wabco Model C ( V Power ) tractor scraper chassis only service manual " 176 pages at $ 38.17 The second manual sounds very close to mine . Going to PM you a few names & phone numbers that might also be able to assist with books & parts .
Good advice RZ ! So far the worst injury I've sustained from the Wabco was when I slipped off the battery box while climbing on and off . Feet went flyin and left hand had the white knuckle grip on the hand rail . Had to go lay down on the shop floor for awhile on that one until the pain subsided in the shoulder Was climbing on and off the machine multiple times setting the gap on the " flux bridge " to up the charging voltage on the batteries . Ended up removing some of the fiberglass shims until we saw 14.5 volts on the battery when running . Nope . these animals don't use a belt driven alternator for charging , get it off the main generator .
Got my "C" manual dug out this evening, "Model C Tournapull" from 1-57. Not sure if anything would be different except the elevator. From the king pin forward the stuff should be the same as far as excitation and rectifiers. Up for loan if Markmox can use it.
Back in the 80's I totally rewired a B-70/333 with a demand regulated transformer and diodes from a later 333F and chucked the compensating transformer and put a 27si Delco alternator on the engine. At the time we put the 4-A gearboxes on the elevator with solid motor shafts and to top it all I shimmed the transformer to give 425V at load... Talk about a single engine Dirthog. Oh, that also improved the steering at lower engine speeds. I really wish the owner would have allowed me to put a 12v71T in it. But the B70 drive axles were a tad weak.
I would think so as well RZ . Guessing it's something simple being nothing will energize . DC main switch or that in that circuit ? Brush ring ?
Imagine she was a dirt hoggin machine after the mods & adjustment . One thing that always impressed me about the C pull is how cool the engine would stay hogging on a hot summer day . Could be 95 degrees with throttle pegged and the 8 V 71 would stay around 180 . Had to be something to do with the electric drive & manual clutch transmission being more efficient ? They were definitely on to something back then .
The older 333's had a small radiator and a 32" fan, with a 5960 powershift, they did not like hot weather, the later 333F's went to a larger radiator and a 36" fan and ran much happier in hot weather. The 353's ran a huge radiator and a 42?" fan and hot weather didn't bother them at all. I had an early 222F with a power shift and it didn't like hot weather either. I don't think Wabco added in the extra heat from the trans in the early days.
Haha, that is great. I love improvising.
Looks a like a very historically significant scraper.
Thank God it can't talk & tell the story .
I got a funny phone call about 3 weeks ago from a guy about 2.5 hours away from me. He heard through the grapevine that I used to do Wabco work and had a few questions for me. We got to talking and it turns out he now has my old 222F. All is running good... he was looking for chains and sprockets. Any clues? last set I got was from Atlanta chain in the mid 1990's. He did text me a pic, now I gotta figure out how to get it off a dormant phone.
That's a good question RZ . Spotted a few venders .. http://www.ballantineinc.com/inventory/scraper http://www.asphaltace.com/products/elevating-scraper-parts/ Brake supply might even be of help ? http://www.brake.com/ Would love to see your old 222 F ! That was pretty much the newer version of the C-Pull correct ?
RZ , did your 222 WABCO have a 24 volt alternator or did it charge the batteries through the transformer like the C-Pull's ?
24V alternator with a negative ground, the gen was only hot when the elevator was running. One of the bonuses of hydraulic steering.
I was wondering if I could do the same on my C-Pull ? For some reason the batteries aren't charging ? Amp meter on the control panel is always in the negative although the needle fluctuates with engine rpm . Last round we shimmed the flux bridge out a little & took care of the problem . Only way I can get it to charge now is buy removing the bridge completely . Checked all connections on the rectifier in the air cleaner . All 3 phase seems ok . Wonder if the problem is in the transformer ?
I may be that the compensating rectifier is getting weak. You may want to check and see if the plates are flaking off. Are your rectifiers air cooled or oil cooled? Yes, you can add a one wire positive ground alternator and connect it directly to the starter stud. I've done it on a B-70 and a D-pull. Oops, I see they are air cooled.
The rectifier is air cooled in the air filter housing and the aluminum plates are flaking a bit . Can't remember the name of the product they are laminated with but from what I understand it allows currant flow in one direction and not the other similar to a diode . 3 phase showing 350 volt at full throttle . When I kick the load chain on it jumps to 380 V . The one wire 24 volt alternator is probably the best way to go . Thanks for the help & insight Rob .
Selenium... If it's flaking they are going bad.
That's it RZ ! I need some new Selenium laminate . LOL! Local guy at the hardware store is going to give a strange look after ask him what isle the selenium strips are on . Damn shame I can't just run over to Peoria Illinois & pick up the new part at the factory . I reckon we will improvise with all that is available today & make it work .
I'm betting that if we talk, you will really have some ideas how to make it all work without parts from Peoria. I made some work with parts from NAPA.
I like the idea just going to the NAPA store RZ . Here is a picture of the rectifiers . Wiring from the transformer up to the rectifiers is pretty nasty looking . Will do continuity test & mark everything then go back with new wire .
Replaced the control circuit wire & took care of the steering problem .
[/ATTACH] Success ! Continuity test between rectifier & transformer showed an open circuit on wire # 166 . Ran a jumper and now she's charging fine . Simple problem , just took me awhile to locate it . Also helps if you know a WABCO technician . Thanks for the help RZ ! Time for a barley soda
Hey! after 3 days... My internet is back up! Lightning got something in the local net on Thursday and now it just came back. Guess what? We have another nasty storm at this very moment. Glad to hear it's all working again td.
Glad your back online RZ ! She's charging fine now after we found the bad wire . Radiator had a small leak so we yanked it out this afternoon . I need to call the dealer & see if the warrantee still covers some of this work .
Radiator made it though the surgery . Ended up doing a 30 tube bypass . Had the Padre on standby to administer Last rites over the core if it went for the worse .
30 tubes? that's a lot of capacity. Were the tubes broken off at the header plate, or just rotten? If they were broken check the diagonal brace. But you are there already.
The tubes were rotten . I started out trying to solder the " small leak " and the leading edge of the tube just kept splitting out . Next stage was yank the tubes at the tank & solder up the hole . Good thought about the diagonal brace RZ , it was tight . Loosing 30 tubes sounds bad but out of 480 total it's just a little over 6% loss . We figured 10% was the end give or take . Depends on the piece of equipment / truck & what there doing & how hot the ambient temp is ? The C - Pull always ran cool as a cucumber . 95 degree day throttle mashed might see 185 on the Detroit temp . The sun is setting on this core I repaired . The good news is I think I can drop in two new Chevy radiators side by side for a K 30 pickup in place of the old WABCO core .
Also had some busted bolts in the threaded blocks when removing the hood . Used a trick an old Aussie Bushman described . Can't remember his handle , Scrub something ? Heated the busted bolt red hot with the torch , then welded a washer & new nut on top with some 7018 hot glue . Walked away from it & finished putting the radiator back together . Went back after it all cooled off and they came rite out . Got it all back together & no water leaks .
That is an excellent trick for broken bolts, I've used it for many years with good results. Back above to the radiator, Do you have a good radiator shop near by? the last 353 radiator core I had done by my local guy was around 3 grand assembled and it only took 3 days for him to get the core. That core should be 1.5- 2k... A lot of money maybe but the right stuff. you might check around before it's too late.
Yeah RZ , my mistake on broken bolt removal in the past was we were always in to big of a hurry to get it out . Would be twisting on it while it was still hot . Got to walk away from it & let it all cool off . I was guessing a new radiator core for the WABCO would run$ 2,000.00 to $2,500.00 ? Somewhere in that range ? Can buy two chevy one ton radiators for less then $ 300.00 https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-radiator-433730/5891175-P?searchTerm=radiators Have to fab up a frame & water manifold for the bottom hose . At that price I'm interested & eager to experiment . In many way's today It's more cost effective to buy a part that's common off the shelf and modify the machine to fit it .