Today was probably the most stressful in a long time, by the end I was shot. I pulled a tractor in the shop for a coolant leak, compressor coolant hose {push lock ends} went bad. While I was waiting for system to drain I did my usual inspection like I always do, and came to the conclusion it was going to be a long day. I had Jeff remove left side drive wheels then the right side, a sudden discomfort came over me as I felt my blood pressure rise. 10-21-21 I replaced all four rotors, pads and wheel seals on both drive axles, $1,500 in parts 8 hrs labor. I looked at Jeff I guess with a look of pain. All he said was ***. All four rotors were toast one completely cracked through, those are 44mm thick new. Ground down to 37mm. Those were installed at 221,000 miles it now had 262,000. If the driver had been standing there I would be in jail right now. I went to work changing out one side told dispatch to send the boss over when he arrives. The next half hour was pretty ugly. After he looked at the damage all he said was {I'll talk to him-driver}. My response was { either you fire him or I'm done because I'm not here at my age to wipe the *** of your lackys}. His track record as a driver is horrible, you can't afford him, he is a huge liability. He has tore up destroyed more equipment than I have fingers to count. Boss-So your threating me-No I'm telling you I'm done if you don't remove him today. When your setting in the superior court explaining why you kept him, do me a favor remember our conversation such as was today. He came back an hour later, admitted I was right. It's not about being right it's about doing the right thing. I'm here to take care of your equipment and your best interest. You want me to look the other way-well it's time I go home permanently. You never understand Chris {I walk the Line}. Some may think it was a waste to type this-but it is about safety on our highways and what goes in now days with driver shortage and desperation in hiring anyone to fill the seat.
Holy cow those are shot. what should be the average miles they should last. I assume a lot more than 40,000. Keep up the good work.
500,000.
wow. Does the truck have any sort of retarder?
Jakes. good ones too.
yeah that guy is an arse whole. Even with restrictions in some areas, I get good use of my jakes and can't see abusing brakes like that.
Holy cow. He trashed those brakes. What a mess.
It's situated behind and attached to the steering wheel.
aka "The Nut that holds the wheel". Could you possibly fit one (or more) of those rotors sideways up his ***.?
Good for you Truck shop in looking out for your employer, and everyone else on the road. And the saddest thing is that he will be in a different seat on Monday morning. But at least you can sleep good, knowing you did what you could.
You guys need to wake up. No longer are professionals who care about their jobs and company being employed. We’ve eliminated standards, tests, and excellence. We’ve purged ideas about opportunity, and replaced them with equity. Business, government and the educational system now say that incompetence is the new acceptable average. That driver is now the new normal, and all of us have to work to make the system function under that reality.
You should have thanked the trucker for not driving the tractor off a bridge, or into the lake. He deserves a bonus and a raise. And don’t forget the trophy.
Where's Truck Shop's trophy for not bitch slapping that driver?
Got a ways to go to be unemployable unless, maybe, the driver has also ripped the front end off another rig in a truck stop, crashed driving too fast for conditions, burned a wagon to the ground riding the trolley bar down a pass, elephant races for 8-10 miles, 62mph through a construction zone, killed somebody with an hatchet (not accidentally).....
I have seen a lot of driver induced carnage, but that is pretty spectacular. When I used to work on school buses for awhile we saw some pretty gnarly brakes, but those rotors are classic . . .
Truck Shop- I'm not in the trucking industry and don't know much about it. What were the bad habits of this driver compared to good drivers that caused this? Can defective parts play into the failure? Thanks for answering the ignorant.
Don't anyone think that I like seeing someone get canned, I don't. But this situation warranted someone loosing their job. The real sad part is this driver is 73 years old, not a good way to end 45 plus years at the job. He is a detriment to himself as well as others behind the wheel. A case of I have to take dads keys away. I'm sure at one time he was good at what he did. But I would be kidding myself to think it would turn around. The industry is a mess in the work force, nothing that is new to any member on here. The highways are full of people like this weather it be a truck or car young or old. But because of shortages I'm hearing all sorts of short cuts going on. A common one now is reusing the inboard brake pads from the front axle mated on one corner and new on the other. Cracked material being reused. How anybody could lend themselves to dip that low is beyond me.
It may be like that in whatever you do for a living, but its not like that in my world. Just because most of the office worker/ keyboard drones, can mess up all week long, and its just another week and someone else will straighten it out, doesn't mean that my world is like that. If things go sideways on my jobsite, someone doesn't get to go home. And that's unacceptable to me. Truck shop found unacceptable wear on equipment, and has dealt with it. My guys are trained and certified, random drug and alcohol screened, and if they can't do their job correctly because of their own issues (they aren't capable of doing the work)- they are going to be looking for a different job, there's no hard feelings about it- they just need to find a different place to work that suits their skill set. If they mess up because of poor training on my part, then I'm going to address that on my end. If its a lack of the right tools or equipment- then we're going to get the right equipment or we aren't doing the job. I need to wake up? The guys that work for me are professionals, and we strive our best, to do it the right way each and every time. You may be incompetent, and put up with the same at your place of employment, but I won't have you paint my employee's and the work we do with that same brush.
I so very much ditto this I have guys with half the age and less experience than most of the industry and they turn out clean consistent and safe work because my standards were set in stone the day they walked in the door and if they were not up to meeting them then we trained them up to those standards My men have adopted those standards as there own and have been the key to helping instill that in eachother there have been guys that didn't live up and couldn't be trained the crew sorted them out more than I had to witch sent them down the road pretty quick Companies end up in these situations because they put the need for growth and profit and shiny new equipment above the well being and integrity of the establishment and the people who are the backbone of it
Holy crap my new to me truck has 220,000 with the original pads and rotors grant d they just had to put a clutch in it because the team that drove it before me burnt it completely out mechanics said there was absolutely nothing left but parts of the steel
Another story to re-enforce my desire to work alone as I have for the past 25+ years. It's not about the money, for me. It is about the quality of my work, my reputation and taking good care of my equipment. I never have as many repairs as I once did many years ago. I have so much more freedom and my stress level is more managed. Kudos to Truck Shop for doing the right thing. Your word and your ethics - neither can be purchased but only earned.
You couldn't be more correct. One thing, a comment that has been repeated over and over again {Drivers are dime a dozen}. Absolutely false. Real drivers are professionals, drivers can make you or break you. Same for heavy equipment operator's. There is a learning curve with trucks that have automated manual transmissions. That even the driving schools don't teach well. Air disc brakes cause drivers to over use them because those react quicker. My end of repair is so much different than {everyone else on here}. I have to listen to and recognize each drivers weak points, 65 different drivers 65 different driving habits. We run all the same brand of steer tires mostly, I can tell by looking at the steer tires which drivers keep there truck dead center of their lane and which ones don't. I know who the brake burners are. I can tell which drivers follow other trucks too close. The aspects of my job have a wide range and knowing a drivers personality, what to look for health wise and mental capabilities have a lot to do with my job. I have had to call the office twice in my time with this company and notify them the driver that just came off the road for a routine service needs a immediate drug test. I wish I was wrong on those but tested positive. I can't and won't cover for my boss {or anyone else for that matter} but I can alter the coarse.
You are a rarity. Democrats scream about equity, and the only way you get equity is by dropping standards to the lowest common denominator.
The dealer told my mechanic that he was a dime a dozen, and he could be replaced in five minutes. That kind of attitude is absurd and deadly to the health of a business.
This thread has nothing to do with politics.
emmett; Perhaps you don't realize that your comment insulted a lot of good people on HEF. Maybe you eliminated standards, tests, and excellence, I haven't, and from years of participating on HEF I have never read a post by a member that indicated that. Actually quite the opposite. Whether it is repairing or operating trucks and equipment, you will never find a group of people that more dedicated to excellence.
Truck shop I tell you what I was told in same situation when worrying about causing some one to loose job over equipment/safety/ driving . Think of the school bus that he could of hit
Exactly. I don't care which side of the political spectrum you lean to, and to say someone's politics signals their ability to determine quality work or safety issues, does a disservice to either side. I've worked with guys from the furthest ends of the political spectrum, and top quality work and excellence doesn't have a political slant. The iron and dirt simply don't care.
^agreed.
Truck Shop ... As another Heavy truck ignorant... Is this the cause of the poor condition of the rotors ? "...Air disc brakes cause drivers to over use them because those react quicker..." I've noticed many drivers applying their brakes constantly because they follow too closely. While I with enough distance, just let off the gas and free wheel.
Our village dpw guy quit, thank god. Worthless doesn't describe him. ANY vehicle maintaince was foriegn to him. Now he drives a tri-axle dump....scary, very scary. Just hope he kills himself and not an innocent driver when something on the truck fails. Ed
it is like this: After years of people filling in in front of you in traffic, you start to drive like a car and not a heavy truck. you lose respect for what you are controlling, and those disc brakes just help you do that. You ride people's arse just like you see them do. Now you lost all that time you used to have for just raw deceleration or jake application. You've become just another brake pedal/throttle pedal jackwagon. The good drivers just keep that 75 yards in the bank in the slow and go, and know deep down inside that 10 or 20 cars filling in in front of you over the course of 10 miles of the bad stuff will mean 90 SECONDS!!! There's no reason to drive like them. There is every reason to keep it in the bank, and when really unexpected bad stuff happens not only do you have the room, you have the good cool brakes to use when you really really need them. Good drivers behind you are counting you to look ahead and anticipate what is going down. They cannot see past you, and you can see over all the roller skates. Driving like an idiot down a grade is how those discs were killed. Now you are up on somebody's arse, in the brakes heating them up, and some things happen. You are now forced into the corner of slowing down 80K plus of truck with nothing but more brake.
When the automated manual transmissions became the choice. Along with it came a learning curve, coupled with air disc the curve grew. And this info is for anyone on here who uses trucks in their business or is looking to buy a truck with AMT & Air Disc. Air Disc can be used but mainly on the steer axle not the drive axles, It works well on steers because of reduced air pressure. The AMT gear boxes in auto mode must be operated with jakes on all the time weather operated by foot throttle or in cruise control mode. When on a highway with slight rollers/hills the AMT will go into coast mode, if the jake is not on to constantly take control of braking to keep correct road speed the driver will find himself constantly riding the brake. When descending a grade {especially} a long grade the proper way to keep control of vehicle without riding the brake using the jakes is to,--{push the mode button to manual mode with jakes on till rpm is low enough to manually down shift again without over revving/going past 2,200 rpm. Same as any manual transmission. With 3.70 ratio rear drives at 105,000 lbs GVW you can descend a 10 mile long steady 6% grade at 38 to 40 mph with a Cummins X15 or a Detroit DD15-16 {And never touch the brake} manually locked in 7th gear mode. Part of the problem is air disc when cool tend to give the driver a feeling of super braking control. It causes a driver to run with no safety zone in front of him because he figures his disc brakes are going to give him better control running up close on traffic, a total false sense of security is developed. I have had drivers tell me that very thing, they found themselves running harder in heavy traffic. Now couple that with not having the jake constantly on, in auto mode constantly going into a coasting situation===one foot on the throttle and one foot on the brake. The other problem no one seems to address in the industry-The rear rotors are tucked inside the inside drive wheel, with all the fairings these trucks have deflecting air to reduce drag the rotors get about zero air to cool them, Drums are open around the shoes so those get some air inside as well as outside. Trucks can automatically lower themselves once at road speed another 2 1/2" to reduce drag. The real problem with all of this is it makes people lazy. It's the cost of these brakes/major components that drive inflation because that's passed on to the consumer just like a lot of other innovations. A lot of companies bought air disc/ amt----I have yet to find one that will admit it was a mistake. As far as highway data on truck involved accidents in the U.S. {Not Canada}. Accidents have risen by quite a bit since air disc arrived, although you won't find one agency source that will point to the latest innovations as part of the culprit. A recipe for disaster.
he is clearly talking about society as a whole not the members of this forum and he is absolutely 100% correct. competence is a dying trait.
I'm sure that he was. But, I think that if anyone that is participating in a group discussion (us) the word we includes everyone in that thread. I'm sorry for going off topic, Truck Shop. I will stay out of your thread now.
I think you were right to chime in tinkerer. I know that in this line of business if you don't cut the mustard you're down the road.
All I know is--{I've had a CDL since 1973, when I retire I will have 50 years as a Mechanic} and in those years I have seen much come to past. I don't think of it as competence as much as I think of it being a attitude issue. A person can be competent and still not give a damn, I've witnessed that my whole life. Surgeries gone bad by a highly competent surgeon because he liked to pull a cork-he didn't give a damn. Same with engine work-mechanics that could do fine work and some real ****** work also. "What is necessary for a new disaster is only for memories of the last one to fade, and no one knows how long that takes"
This is the issue I cannot ignore. Across all trades, all occupations, all walks of life. The commercials for all sorts of goods tell you "you deserve this". I don't understand how we all got so 'entitled'
Depending on how critical you want to be, we have either 2 or 3 generations of kids indoctrinated by the public school system, that were raised by kids who never had to struggle for anything because their Boomer parents stuck the silver spoon in their mouth. I dare anyone to claim it's something more or different than this. Now, before anyone here gets their panties in a wad, I'm not referring to those of us who know the difference between a wrist pin and a ballpoint pen. 75% of the population of this country under the age of 30 are pretty much useless, and I'd guess that number would be around 90% for those under the age of 20. And the worst part of it is, it's not their fault.
Shimmy1, I would give it two thumbs up if I could. Things have changed when it comes to raising kids. The instilling of the positive traits that allow for success later in life, is gone. The "everyone gets a trophy" philosophy is a failure.....surprise! What we are seeing now is living proof. Who is responsible? The American family is not what it was 30 years ago (too deep to dwell into here), the schools certainly are not what they should be and society in general has shifted greatly from the things that it used to stand for like responsibility, accountability, I could go on... What is responsible? I would say no one thing is, but many things together. Technology is a big part of it, the smart phone/video games have dumbed people down, both young and old. A society that for some reason started advocating reward for poor behavior and poor personal performance. Treating everyone as a victim of something either real or imagined. The general disregard for separation of those who work hard and perform from those that that do not (read socialist mentality). I will say that one political party is an advocate of that more so than the other, and I don't care who is offended by that statement, its true. That said, Red or Blue States, these issues are everywhere, in every region of the US. One upside: It is an opportunity for those younger people that, no doubt were raised by strong minded parents that refused to let their children be victims of society. The kids that can buck society norms and don't feed into the mind set of the majority of their peers, will over-perform in the years ahead . If they can harness the work ethic of generations past, those kids/young adults can be a lion among millions of sheep. They will succeed in their own business ambitions or be an employee that organizations will pay very good money, so they can keep their rare traits in their organization. This is simply because the vast majority of their peers don't possess those traits and don't seem to care to, but why should they, (to Shimmy's point) society will take care of them regardless. We (society) have fostered that mentality. We built this...
Odd how a pile of toasted rotors ends up another essay on the science of the population. One 73 year old caused this mess of parts and labor. Not mothers and fathers, the school system or any other group. My point to this was the destruction of work and parts I had installed 6 months ago plus what it took to send him down the road.
Yeah mate but the other comments are very applicable sadly. There ain't no way to polish a turd no matter how old it is.
Really?
That truck was never a turd. An excellent job of revival, well done
Like a lot of things posted on this thread it all depends on how you look at it. What is reasonable to some isn't to others. And yes it was a turd {a big turd} headed for the scrap pile. It just depends on how much time a person is willing to invest in polishing said turd.
And this is exactly the issue today, and the reason for the comments on this thread. The parenting today and the resulting trainwrecks that pose as adults today are why we are in this situation. This crap didn't happen 50 years ago because children were raised to understand what it meant to work for things and earn what they were given. How these people parent isn't "reasonable" to me, and shouldn't be to anybody. I realize that you had an issue with a 73 year old that should obviously know better, but the point remains the same.
No, no it isn't the same, he admitted he was starting to have issues with memory loss. And by the way he acted it most certainly was probable. Nothing is happening like it did 50 years ago and never will again. This machine the one I'm using, the one you used to post on this thread has changed society for ever. The problem-people want to constantly inject a political opinion/stance when ever they can. This thread had way more to do with safety and handling a intercompany issue than any of the above posts. None of the problems posted about todays work force are going to solve a damn thing. But when it comes to a safety issue that can be taken care of. And someone just might have to put their job on the line to get it done, talk is cheap, taking action well that's a whole different step in life.
As someone who is just a few months shy of that age I can say thinking a person of that age is automatically smarter that say a 20 something is giving the 73 year old's too credit. I've know many my age and much older over the years and can't really say age means anything regarding smarts! Maybe the biggest problem is those who are in a position of power to get the bad apples out of the system who just are not doing their job!
No Truck Shop, the turds are responsible for the condition of it when you found it.
It was a ex log truck, it was used as a log truck. And the people who owned it are friends of mine. People and this cheezie grin .
I’m not saying everyone, but dropping standards, eliminating requirements and tolerating mediocrity is a trend. Whether it’s poor service at the parts counter, talk of eliminating the bar exam for potential lawyers, or lazy idiots who work on your car, it’s becoming more prevalent. Especially with the government handing people free money, causing a massive labor shortage. Companies hire anyone just to fill spots. People who care are getting to be rare birds indeed.