Hey! I'm not only new to this forum, but also to cranes. As a matter of fact, I come from a Computer Science background so I'm not even anywhere closely related to cranes, so please give me some sound advice. Growing up, I was really close to my cousin who was in the construction business. I remember looking at some photos from his work site filled with huge cranes, and I suddenly developed an itch towards the construction business. So, I wanted to get a degree in Civil Engineering to scratch that itch, but somehow due to unforeseen circumstances ended up in Computer Science. Am I mad? No, not really. I'm actually doing great with computers. Just sitting in front of a screen all day long makes me wanna stab my eyes. I think I'm done with computers and want to get into construction, but I neither have the knowledge nor the degree for that. Then I started to look around for anything that was closely related to construction, and BIG ASS CRANES popped into my head instantly. Then it hit me, why can't I start a crane rental business, because real estate is booming where I live. Also because there aren't many crane rental companies (at least not big ones) in my state. Every time I went out of my house, I used to see a 500t Liebherr/Demag (bought from out of state) working away on a site, and I used to ask myself why can't I start something because there is definitely demand for it and almost non existent competition. The only thing that stopped me was money. Those things cost millions which I don't have. So, I felt what if I start small and work my way up. Maybe I can start with a old and used 100t crane and move up to 500t later down the road. Not easy by any means, but doesn't cost money to dream. The problem is that I don't know how to operate a crane, and don't plan to. I also don't know jack about cranes, and don't forget tons of regulations that come along owning/operating one. I so want to get into the crane rental business, but I don't really know if I should. If I want to start, my budget would be anywhere between $50K-100K. Is it doable? Should I?
My first thoughts: Old crane might not be certifiable.....( safe. ) I can't even begin to imagine what insurance would cost to be able to rent out a crane.... probably as much as the crane!!! Cranes tip over from improper operating, so how do you know who using it. I don't think it would ever work.
Yeah, OSHA certification might be a problem with old cranes. I'm thinking a 1970-1975 Truck Mounted Lattice Boom Crane maybe from brands like P&H, American, Link-Belt, and Lima. Yeah, another user really shined a light on me about insurance.
My first thought to run, far away. Construction equipment is very complex with tons of components, so think when your chasing a bug in a program the same can happen in a crane, but at insane repair rates. If you want to get into construction equipment, I'd recommend leasing equipment until you know what your doing.
Your endeavor is much like farming. One has much money tied up in assets or a crop looking for a market. That is ... if you had a crane, you need work for it. Otherwise, the crane mortage, depreciation, insurance, taxes, certifications, etc. are rapidly accruing costs as it sits in your yard. It would be better to find a market or niche that you can fill that's not being filled by existing businesses. There's a reason that 500 ton crane comes from out of state ... there's not enough work for it in your area.
Doesn't sound like a good idea for someone with no experience running cranes. It would be different if you had say 10 years experience running a crane and had contacts and simply need to buy your own, but I can't see this ending well. If you wanted a crane to run on a farm, again it's not hard but if you are hiring it out and lifting things on job sites there is a ton of things like insurance, certifying the truck and crane, ticketed operator, etc etc. It also is likely not a easy industry to break into, just because you are closer doesn't mean you'll get the work. A general may use a company because they like working with them and they are reliable and the price isn't the whole thing, also the big companies have 100's of cranes of every size to do different projects, if you have 1 many wouldn't even consider you, they only want to deal with one company for all of their crane needs. Also even if you have proper insurance certified, a general doesn't want a crane flopped over on a building or dropping something, it doesn't look good. Having someone they can trust is huge.
I don’t know where you’re at in the US but most crane companies are desperate for bodies right now(heck you could say that for most skilled trades). If you can afford to switch careers I would find employment at a rental barn for a solid 5 years before I would buy my own. Get a class a cdl and get on as a truck driver/oiler and you’ll learn a lot about crane rental in 5 years. I would definitely learn on someone else’s equipment while you’re making money. There are people who own cranes that don’t know much about them but they are usually just money guys.
The small business with old iron that makes it, fixes it themselves. You cannot hire the repair work done and it is never ending. We have some old conventionals working on the forum. Read this thread end-to-end, paying attention to what they have to do to keep it running and most importantly WHO is doing the work. HeavyEquipmentForums They operate it, fix it, move it themselves for the large part. It is a labor of love and the guys in there have combined lifetimes of experience.
Okay, makes sense when you put it that way.
Yeah, I forgot about mortgage, depreciation, insurance, taxes and certifications. The most important stuff. If my crane is sitting idle, I'm losing money so I have to find constant work which is not easy for a newbie like me.
Exactly, a newbie like me wouldn't even get hired no matter how much I lowball the offer. Man, I guess I have to drop the idea altogether.
But I don't want to drive/operate a crane. I was thinking more in terms of hiring an experienced operator who has contacts, but again why would an experienced operator work for a newbie like me. I guess I'll think about this business later when I have a million dollars sitting in my bank.
Yeah, I already checked out that entire thread and man-o-man those P&H cranes look amazing. Yeah tradesman and that other guy own and operate their own cranes, and also fix them so I have no chance.
You've got a good attitude for someone getting shut down by this entire thread. HEF is a great place for helping you become aware of ALL the aspects of this type of venture. That being said, sometimes we dreamers (me included, I see that pie in the sky!) don't see all the sticking points that can make these ventures failures, if not bankrupters. There are some really good tips above, like go get some experience with other people's equipment, even it you don't want to operate you can learn more about the cranes and the business, maybe even network to find other folks you like to work with. Cranes, and I don't know much about them, other than things can go terribly, terribly wrong, could be a good venture to get into, but it doesn't seem like you can shortcut your way. The crane companies out there have built on years of experience and knowledge.
Well, it was great advice from the pros. I'm glad that I stumbled upon this forum filled with wonderful people who have tons of knowledge and experience.
It doesn't mean it can't be done though, you just have to do it right. There's also smaller cranes, like 25 ton models that are handy
Advice?
WOW! Talk about shooting for the moon! Cranes are the most dangerous, most expensive, most regulated pieces of equipment to own and operate. How about owning and renting out some minis to start off with?
I saw a 1996 35 ton crane on Facebook this morning for 85k, idk if that's a good price or not. I'm in pulling units in the oilfield, it's very similar to cranes. You either have to have rich parents, rich friends, or a huge loan. I took a different route because I've worked out here for 16 years. The two crane companies in my area one started with a machine shop and equipment repair and the other was a construction company first. My advice would probably get in the construction industry and start small such as a mini unless you have some money like above.
Minis?
I neither have rich parents nor rich friends hehe. What's a mini?
I think mini excavator
Oh okay.
There's other equipment that's crane like ... Manlifts for instance ... Another thought. Get a retired utility truck. They have a boom and a hoist. Some trucks have a man lift too. Hire out as a unique service. Jobs too small for a crane, too low for a manlift, too small for a boom truck ... but just right for a utility truck. I haven't ever seen a utility truck for rent.
There is mini cranes, like tiny one's on tracks that can go into buildings. Who knows maybe there is a niche market for something like that that the big guys don't want to bother with? They are something anyone with an ounce of common sense could run. When I had my 15 ton picker I did a few jobs with it, I think you could do ok with something like that in my city, the big guys charge a fortune to bring a truck out. There is a massive market here for lifting walls, floor, and roof for framers in residential construction, so many don't have zoom booms so they hire cranes. Guys like that would only care about price and reliability. But again you'd need something older so it wasn't pricey (I paid $12k for mine), be able to work on it yourself or someone reasonable, and have a good operator who was able to fix minor things on the fly. One thing i've never understood is why no one around here has concrete line pumps for hire, like just a tiny one on a single axle truck or pulled behind a pickup. You have to get a regular boom concrete pump out and they are so expensive. Minimum charge after all the fees is like $700. I bet if someone got one and charged $500 minimum they'd have more work then they could handle, as long as they got their name out there. There is certain parts of the market the big companies don't bother with.
This is a nice idea. Lemme look into it. Thank you
Concrete line pumps, huh? I'll read about it and see if it is possible. Thank you tho
I think if you had some contacts it is possible to have a good business as an owner/operator with a 25-35 ton hydraulic crane. You could do smaller jobs that the larger crane outfits aren't too interested in. When I was doing skid steer work for a GC he would often hire an owner/operator with a crane when he didn't need extended reach. The crane owner had a Grove about 25 ton but sold it when he found a low hour 1974 P&H. The P&H was owned by a refinery and still had all the original paint on the frame and outriggers. It spent its entire life at the refinery. If I recall the P&H had a single engine while the Grove had a seperate engine for the truck and crane. He missed the 6 cylinder Perkins in the Grove crane because it sipped fuel. The P&H was too good to pass up. I think it would be hard if you had to hire an operator and a mechanic or paid a shop to do your repairs.
Yeah, I need contacts first because without contacts I won't have a business to begin with. Somebody here told me to hire experienced crane operators who might have contacts from their previous jobs which is nice, but again why would they work for a newbie like me.
Better working conditions, less BS to deal with, etc. There can be many reasons for an operator to prefer working for a smaller contractor.
Absolutely right.
Get experience working for someone else before striking out on your own.
The problem is finding a good one you could trust and work with. I guarantee you could find one to work for you, if the deal was right like offering them some profit share instead of a straight wage. I am sure there is no shortage of qualified guys who don't have the credit and/or money to buy their own crane but would like to get more then just a wage. Problem is trying to get into business with someone you don't know is a massive risk.
But I don't want to operate a crane, just run the business side of things.
Profit share sounds like a good idea. Yeah, doing business with someone I don't know is massive risk, but hey business itself is risk. There is no reward without risk they say. Let's see what the future holds for me.
I think a crane rental business when you have no crane experience and just want to hire an operator would be about the hardest new start up business. Who's going to do all the maintainance? Like any other equipment cranes break down. There are a lot of permits and inspections required for cranes. You should look through a bunch of CraneOperators posts. He's very experienced and has done a lot of unique jobs. He's also had some very unfortunate issues such as needing a new engine for his 100 ton crane because basically a hose let go. That was a big hit that would have been a lot bigger if he would have had to hire changing it out. Something like that happening on a new start up could put the brakes on it really quick. Lots of things to consider with any business but some you might not have thought of.
I've had buddies with similar rental plans, usually I ask if they fell down and hit their head. Rentals mean customers breaking equipment, and not the good kind where they break their equipment and then pay me to fix, the kind where they break my equipment then just kinda give that oops look or don't say anything.
I think he's looking at rentals supplying the operator.
Get into the casket making business-won't be long and boomers will be dropping like flies.
How would job estimates work with no operating experience? I have a hard enough time estimating for a small landscaping job, or helping a buddy out, and that's after a couple decent years of running my backhoe and knowing, mostly, what to expect. I can't imagine heading out to a job site and saying "yup, that'll be $12 grand please" and getting it right.
P&H is a good rig, BUT, it has master and slave cylinders with brake fluid to actuate the frictions. Not a bad system, but it requires a bit of maintenance. You might be better off with air controls like an old American. Hope this helps.
I wouldn’t say you have no chance. I wouldn’t let getting some education get in the way of a dream. I haven’t seen a conventional truck crane in years. Must be more of a regional thing. I know around here the in/out would eat your lunch on a conventional crane. The AT cranes have taken the market over for those. The smallest crawler we have is a 100t. Anything smaller then that a hydraulic crane will do for less money.
Don't let low odds stop you from your dream. It's never zero.
Yeah, then there is maintenance which is the hard part. Finding an operator who can also get his hands dirty is almost impossible if not expensive. I did look through his posts and learnt some stuff, but that alone is not enough to get me started. Like everybody here said, hands on experience is a must which I clearly lack.
Oh man, breaking the equipment is just game over. There is no coming back from that.
LOL
Right, I didn't really think about that part.
I don't understand. Can you please explain to me like I'm 5 years old? If you don't mind that is.
The AT's are more prevalent than truck cranes, but I like the look of it, especially the P&H, American, Lima, and Link-Belt cranes. I remember seeing a P&H truck mounted lattice boom crane for the first time in my life with bewilderment because it was nothing like other hydraulic cranes I've seen.