We are working on a commercial project in my home town in a area that is a little rough to say the least. Today I here pop pop pop. I think It sounds like gun fire but not sure. I her some yelling and then some more pop pop pop. I go to the porta john to do my morning business and see a small hole in the side of the porta john just under the toilet paper roller and see a matching hole in the other side. I get out and look at my site trailer that was parked next to the porta john and see a hole in that, look inside and the hole is all the way thru. I call the cops and just as I hang up five cop cars show up flying all around the neighbor hood. They come on the job site, take photos, dig the slug out and inform us that there was two cars having a gun fight across the street. if I decided to go in that porta john 5 minutes earlier I would not be writing this, either in the hospital or dead. The bullet hole was lined up directly for a gut shot. About a week ago my trailer was broken into and robbed. I am seriously considering not working at the site any more, almost done and can't wait to get out.
Need hazard pay
Damn jmac, glad you're ok! How much work do you have left and how much retainage are the holding, if any?
About two weeks left and the retainage is enough that I want it. The job has taken longer to do that it should so my profits are down if the first place. Hate to walk away good GC that I want to keep working for also. The GC had guys there working also. Every one that I tell the story to can't believe it, strange day for sure. Everything can change in a instant.
I figured that was the situation, you didn't want to walk away from the job but weighing the "costs" of staying there and finishing it out. Only you can weigh those costs and determine the risks, stay safe and be careful. Are you carrying?
No I don't have a permit but one of my guys do and he is packing from now on. NY is hard to get it unless you sell drugs then a gun comes with your drivers license.
The tough ownership laws you guys have to deal with up there sucks. I am not advocating any "Rambo" type situation but just cautious protection. My two guys, as well as myself, carry every day. I would rather have it and not need it (ever) than need it and not have it.
jmac, you can walk in to Kmart or Walmart and walk out with a Remington 870 shotgun, it's a great defense weapon. You can't have it loaded in a vehicle but I don't believe there's a law against having it on a machine. There are plenty of vehicle mounting brackets that could be adapted to a machine, just don't forget to take it with you at the end of your shift. I'd recommend some tactical training if you decide to go this route
That's pretty serious... Did a stretch in Iraq back in '03 and never came that close. You don't expect it in your back yard. Good to hear you're ok tho. Personally I'd keep out the way of a three way gun battle... The two may turn on you. Stay safe.
That safe act sure is working ain't it! It is crazy to have to worry about that while digging dirt. I would worry about it during hunting season the way some guys shoot after seeing a buck.
Glad your ok jmac . That's scary stuff . Get the job done & move on to a safer job site . Unfortunately a man had an accidental discharge at a local walmart we go to . He was lucky no one was hurt . http://www.duboiscountyfreepress.com/handgun-fired-in-jasper-walmart/ Don't know details on what type of pistol he had in his pocket but am guessing it was a semi - auto . My question is was he carrying this pistol "hot" with a round in the chamber ? Or did he unknowingly have a round in and accidently pulled the trigger while reaching in to his pocket ? Either way its scary stuff . I have heard people talk about carrying a pistol " hot" with the safety on ......... My thoughts are it would be an accident waiting to happen .
They said it was a .40, I would like to know A- why he had it in his pocket instead of a holster and B- what kind of pants was he wearing to get that big of a gun in his pocket
Nothing takes the place of proper training and common sense.
Wow . With all the lack of common sense I see today I cant imagine everyone carrying a gun .
What town in the Peoples Republic of New York are you working in, don't those gun laws work great! Just ask Andrew "the Mollusk" Cuomo.
Good questions 1466IH . In the past with open carry this store might ask the individual to leave the gun in there vehicle while shopping . Don't know what the currant store policy is . He may have had some loose fitting "pocket pants " & an un tucked shirt . Just don't know the details . Bad situation for sure .
Absolutely !
There are some compact 40 caliber weapons, and even a revolver with a 2" barrel, would probably fit nicely in my hip pocket, not that I would ever carry that way. There are some nice coats on the market that are designed to carry in an inside pocket, sort of a stealth shoulder holster.
I carry in my pocket daily. Of course it is in a pocket holster. In my right front pocket. Usually a Glock 19. It fits nicely.
I am no weapons expert LOL The only .40 i have ever seen was a buddy of mines S&W MP40 and you would be lucky to get that into the pocket of a Carhart coat lol
The slug showed up, found it in my trailer cops came and got it. Looked like 38.
If you live in an area where carrying is smart you have to pay attention to what you are doing. If you need the gun you need it right now and the time taken to chamber a round can be a deciding factor. Then there is the gun design itself. Some are safer than others. I have my permit although I seldom carry. I carry a 1911A1 45ACP. I carry hammer down with a round in the chamber. Some more modern designs are hammerless. These guns can only be carried with the safety on. You get some yahoo who doesn't make sure it's on safe it is an accident waiting for a place to happen. You need to be careful with training. Self defense and safety courses are great but tactical courses can provide ammo (pun intended) for a DA who doesn't believe in armed citizens should you wind up having to shoot someone. It paints you as a Rambo wannbe who's out to kill someone. You take a jury someplace like CA or NYC that can turn a self defense shooting into a manslaughter conviction. Rick
This is a very bad idea. If you drop your weapon or otherwise strike the hammer, it will go off. 1911s do not have a hammer block to stop the hammer from striking the firing pin. The only way to safely carry a 1911 patterned weapon is condition 1(locked and cocked) or condition 3(hammer down on empty chamber) or the worthless condition 4(unloaded).
Fortunately there is a great choice of newly designed concealed carry weapons that can be safely carried cocked with a round in the chamber. All brands and models have a dual safety that is natural and very easy to use with a little practice. And if we are not practiced it would be foolish and possibly deadly to carry and attempt to use.
A gun is like a parachute...If you dont have it and need it you will never need it again.
Not trying to be disagreeable & understand modern pistols have came a long way but it still spooks the hell out of me of people carrying with a round in and hammer back even with safety's . Part of my fear comes from a mechanics viewpoint ...... A gun is a machine . sooner or later something mechanical could or will fail , then there is also operator error & so forth . OOP's ...... Sorry about that aint going to cut it . Just don't like the idea of carrying one hot all the time .In my opinion the chances of accidental discharge are far greater then the slim chance rising that you would need the gun loaded like that for a situation that hopefully will never happen . I don't bother carrying a fire arm on my person as it would get in the way most of the time . I do carry a nice leatherman super tool 300 on the belt ..... Can pull it pretty fast if needed . If I was going to carry a pistol it would be a single action revolver . But that's just me
Most of your gun discharge accidents with carry pistols are the models that have no exposed hammer or are hammerless plus have no safety. The accidents occur when someone draws/presents their pistol and the stick their finger in the trigger guard will pulling it out. I've heard that a .45 1911 can go off if dropped with the hammer down with a round in the chamber. Got told that over and over in the army. I'm willing to be it dates back to the day of the revolver as the military sidearm. Got told it was illegal to shoot a .50 at troops and people in parachutes too only to read in the tank gunnery manual the lead factor for the .50 for paratroopers. I have never heard of it actually happening. Carrying a auto loading pistol with an empty chamber you may as well not have it. Most people who do have to defend themselves are in a situation where the time, while the fear factor is high and adrenalin is pumping like mad, needing to chamber a round is going to be the difference between successfully defending themselves and failing. In other words in the time they are trying to chamber a round they are dying. Revolvers, being somewhat bulky for what I consider a decent chambering, are harder to conceal. That is why few people carry one for self defense. Plus should they be in a prolonged gun fight reload times are too long. The NYPD were about the last holdout on revolvers. Had to do with the cost of switching over. As the gang violence escalated they had more officers dying. When they did a study they found that while the officers were using their handy dandy speed loaders the bad guys with high cap 9MM.s were running up and shooting the officers at close range. Using a speed loader where time is very important requires constant practice and a lot of it. Now you can claim all you want that reloading isn't necessary and think you can make one shot stops. Do it when the target is shooting back. That gives marksmanship a whole new meaning. Think I'm wrong? Check out cop shootings. While under extreme stress cops, who are trained, generally shoot a lot of rounds to put one bad guy down. Rick
Things are pretty bad when your neighbours scare you more than your enemies.......
Appreciate your opinion & input oldtanker . Don't disagree at all with you in that context . We all are in a wide range of different environments . Like I said .... Probably just me as I don't feel comfortable carrying any fire arm around cocked with a round in even with the safety on . If I was going to carry a pistol It would be in a belt or shoulder holster and probably stay with a single action like this http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelSuperBlackhawkStandard/specSheets/0813.html I really like the safety gate under the hammer on Ruger pistols . Pretty simple yet it's there if you would ever need it .
This is what I have: http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkBlued/specSheets/0316.html
I really like those Ruger Blackhawks mitch504 . Bought my first one over 20 years ago & still love it . It's the .44 mag version with 7.5 barrel . In my opinion you aint going to go wrong with that model . Pretty strait forward & simple .
Yep, my father bought it in '74, I started using it in about '80. He gave it to me a year or two ago.
td25c, do you carry your revolver with the chamber under the hammer empty? I carry a 1911 in condition one. Modern 1911's are virtually foolproof, the only way it will go off is if the trigger is pulled or it is in a fire long enough to ignite the powder. The firing pin will not activate unless the trigger is pulled and the trigger can't be pulled unless you have it in your hand with the the grip safety depressed. On top of that there's a manual safety that deactivates everything and must be flicked off to fire. I agree with oldtanker, the only way to carry this firearm effectively is in condition one. With proper training it's one of the safest handguns available.
Steve , No . Carry it with all 6 rounds . It uses a transfer bar between the trigger & firing pin . http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelSuperBlackhawkHunter/features.html By the way you describe the 1911 it sounds like it has a similar set up ? I never have been around a 1911 .
I know that this is probably dumb, but what good will a shotgun do if you are sitting in the portapot? 2nd thing is what good is a pistola if you are sitting in the portapot? I carry, sometimes, when I feel like it. But, nothing worse than trying to take a wizz with a pistol on your belt especially with long johns on, it always feels like a wrestling match just to get the thing out! Got to hold the gun or it falls on the floor. No not that gun Glad you are ok! It kills me, it isn't just the theft of ones tools, it's that they are stealing your livelihood. To me it is one of the lowest theives around, they are right next to the rich politicians that do the same thing. I do feel better when I see other fellas strapped, at least some one is prepared. It is one of the things I really like about Az, we have a lot of polite drivers here! right to carry state What I hate are rocks, there are always little rocks and medium rocks and then huge rocks, you can't move dirt here with out a crapola huge bucket of rocks getting in the way. arggggh......rocks..... By the way, pop pop pop, means duck and run for cover!:drinkup
The diagram below shows how it works. The firing pin has a concave notch cut into it and the round red colored pin is spring loaded and drops into this notch like a keyway to secure the firing pin in place. The trigger has a very slight amount of freeplay if you will, this freeplay allows the levers you see to raise the red pin out of the way before the sear is contacted to drop the hammer. In addition, the trigger is locked in place by the grip safety which will not release until the gun is gripped in your hand and the safety is depressed by the web of your hand. And finally, all of this is locked out by the thumb safety. 3 safeties on one handgun!!
Thanks for posting the diagram Steve . Sounds like it has a lot of built in redundancy . Looks pretty Bullet proof .
Dang, td, that pun was painful!
Couldn't help that one Mitch Hey..... Does your Dads 1974 Blackhawk have the same transfer bar like the Super Blackhawk ? http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelSuperBlackhawkHunter/features.html
Yep, all Ruger revolvers manufactured after 1973 do. The Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk seem to be mostly the same weapon, except for the chambering. If a Ruger has 3 frame screws, it is pre-1973. If it has only 2 frame screws, it has the transfer bars. If you send them a pre-'73, they will convert it free.
Thanks mitch , I couldn't remember when Ruger started that feature . Good information to know .
My thoughts exactly.. Scary enough sharing the roads with them!
A few years ago in Portland Oregon, two rival gangs had a conversation on a busy street near a busy park by Lloyd Center.... over fifty shell casings were recovered, the only injury was to a citizen that had crawled under a car to try to stay safe, caught a ricochet which caused a small wound. One man or woman with a practiced aim and a decent automatic pistol with full clip could have easily taken down the whole group, obviously none of them could hit a barn with a bulldozer and they were standing in the street. In that kind of world, I'll hope for the best when it comes to common sense and advocate the right to carry, concealed or open.
Lanway, first-"I'll hope for the best when it comes to common sense and advocate the right to carry, concealed or open" but, in the situation you mentioned, I doubt I would have opened up. A lot of times, when people are fighting, if you interfere they will all turn on you. It sounds like they weren't paying attention to anybody else. I really want SC to pass an open carry law. We can already carry open on our way to or from hunting, so on the few occasions when I do want to carry, I'm going to swear I'm going hunting.
Mitch, I completely agree with you on that actually, the only way I would shoot would be in defense of my life or another person's. I guess I was just trying to make a point about the idiots carrying illegaly being worse than anybody willing to qualify for a carry permit and buy a weapon legally.
Ok, now I completely agree with you! In SC, part of the class for your concealed weapons permit is to prove you can hit what you're aiming at, at close range, anyway.
MN is the same way. Some of the gun forums have some very interesting views on this subject and can be very amusing to read. There are a heck of a lot of mall rangers out there. I really like the "in a crowd, with shots being fired, I'm going to whip out my gun and put the bad guy down with one shot". Kinda of like the CO theater shooting incident. Shooting paper isn't the same. I don't care how many self defense classes one attends. When the target is shooting back it's a whole new ball game. Add in panic by other people, lighting or limit visibility or just innocent bystanders just adds to the situation. As far as hammer down, that has to do with 20 years of military training. We were always made to carry hammer down. So that' what I'm trained for. My youngest son is currently in the National Guard, infantry. He says they are now training cocked and safety on. Rick
Being the proud owner of an Illinois concealed carry permit, I have to bring up one important thing I learned in my CC classes. If you do use your weapon in any situation and hit someone, there is almost a guarantee that you will end up in a long and costly lawsuit. In regards to the OP's opening statement. I too have been on a job-site (Chicago's south-side) where gunshots were a weekly occurrence. I watched a guy shooting a .22 handgun in a garage one afternoon less than 150 feet from me and the dozer I was running. I heard him because quite often I would shut off the dozer while waiting for gravel trucks. Another time I heard a shotgun go off. A couple minutes latter I see a guy come out of the bushes that worked for anther contractor. I said "damn that shot was close". He said in reply "Ya it was me, I was shooting at a pheasant" Believe it or not there are pheasants in the heart of Chicago. The shooting was so bad at night that the night shift foreman sent the entire crew home in the middle of the shift because there was so many shots being fired very near to them.
Ah, the good old 2-way rifle range ........... no better way to pucker the sphincter muscles ........
I've been following this thread with interest. It hasn't been lost on me though, that for all of the discussion, the situation described in the opening post really doesn't lend itself to much in the way of self defense: Guys! I gotta go! Set up a defensive perimeter, and lay down suppressing fire!
You can never defend against everything, ask the secret service. However, it seems that firearm related crime is down nationwide EXCEPT of course for those areas where gun laws keep everyone except criminals from having guns, take Detroit, or Chicago... please!
Carrying without a proper holster is not a good idea.
That gun was designed by John Browning to be carried “cocked and locked”. Unless the gun is defective, the hammer will not fall unless someone pulls the trigger.
True but I spent from 1974 until 1996 on active duty US Army. 22 years of training isn't easy to overcome. Rick
Damn straight it's working. None of those Democrat voters were harmed when they were just playing around with their pea shooters. Otherwise, someone in the protected class might have been shot, and that's one less Democrat to cast a vote. Then again, since Democrats vote, even after death, it might not be a huge problem.
If y You gotta say for us, "Well, do you feel lucky? Well, do you punk?"
I took an AR15 training class, and the instructor ran a hot range. That means that from the first second you stepped foot on the range, guns were loaded, cocked and locked. In fact, if you were caught with an unloaded weapon, you were dismissed from the class. This was far safer than the cold range formula where guns were only loaded just before firing, because you knew that guns were loaded at all times, and you could never lower your attention to safety or your attention to those around you. The most interesting thing was learning to handle the AR while going to the bathroom in the porta potty. https://www.defensivestrategies.org/student-level-firearm-courses/dti-vehicle-defense-class
It's why I head slap myself whenever I hear some ninny politician bleat "No one needs more than 10 rounds for self defense". I also head slap when I hear "the gun accidentally just went off". Guns don't go off accidentally. People accidentally pull triggers.
My instructor taught ten guys who just graduated from Marine Corps boot camp, just before they headed off to Iraq. It was his gift to a family friend whose son was in the group. When they finished, all ten told him that what they did in his class was head and antlers above anything they did in boot camp. I'm guessing that basic training errs on the side of making training as safe as possible, with as little investment in the actual instruction. I hear that gun skills are far better with most special forces types, but the kind of stuff available to law abiding civilians is very impressive indeed.
I carry with a round in the chamber and no safety, glock, never had an issue in 25+ years.
Specops have a different budget. They get far more money per man for training and equipment than regular units like Armor, Infantry or Artillery. The Military gets a budget as you well know. But congress in it's alleged wisdom doesn't just hand them money. They get told X amount for troop housing. X amount for equipment repairs. X amount for this that and the other thing. They get told how much they can spend on training ammo and how much on go to war ammo. So you can find out that your unit has plenty of money to repair equipment but lacks the fuel to do maneuver training. Or you can afford repairs and fuel for maneuver training and are out of money for ammo. Down at end user level it can be frustrating. You can know that your troops need range time but no money for that. Last BN I was in the new Commander said we would do a maneuver exercise. One tank broke a final drive and that was it. Exercise indexed due to exceeding the budget for repairs. And then because a final drive deadlines the tank the BN CMD has to go to explain to higher just why he has emergency repairs and needs extra money for a repair. Right after I retired a new Division Commander, guy with 2 stars for you who haven't served, reported the division as C3 "non combat ready" due to there being no money for repairs. That was part of the cuts made in the mid 90s. One of my friends still with the division told me that they had one tank in the company of 14 that would start without a jump because they didn't have the money to replace batteries. Bad part of that is the turbine engine in an M1A1 eats fuel even at idle. So if you start them and just don't shut them down you burn an enormous amount of fuel. So basically the former commander fudged the C reports to make himself look good. When there is no money there is no training. Training now from what I hear is better but still lacks due to budget issues. Kinda like with boot camp. They get X number of training days. Yet congress mandates X amount of hours for "Child and spouse abuse" classes. Because check to bank is mandatory today they have to have X number of hours of financial management too. There are others to, about 1 week's worth. This all takes away from mission oriented training. And congress doesn't want to extend basic because then it cost more for each individual service member to be ready to join the forces. Sorry for being long winded. Rick Rick
We were in the back of a sawmill looking at a old Cat No.12 grader, and I spotted an old rusty shotgun receiver in the cab. I figure if it wasn't "hidden" in there over the years while it was sitting, it was put in there by the grader operator as a defence for if he had to do a bathroom break in the woods.