Im new to the forums and thanks in advance to anyone that can give me a hand. I am a sales rep for a local equipment dealer and we have come up with a lot of different opinions on what is legal for me to haul but I have been searching online for hours and have read through a few books but nothing is clear on what I specifically am supposed to do to legally haul a piece of small machinery. My info 2012 F250 Powerstroke 10,000 gvw w/ a tandem 14,000lb GVW trailer that is bumper pull The largest machine that I have the ability to haul puts me at a total weight of under 24,000lbs using CAT certified scales. Here is my question, I am under 26k lbs so I am not "commercial" but I do drive a commercial vehicle for a dealer so what am I supposed to have/do to be legal? I never cross state lines and my hauls are usually within 150 miles of our store. I have heard that I do/dont need a CDL, that I do/dont need a log book, triangle, fire ext., etc etc etc. With even our company being on the fence about what can/cannot be done and the ODOT/ODPS having the inability to give good online resources I want to make sure that I am legal to not only protect myself but also to protect the company I work for.
Just keep going till you get stopped. You'll get educated quick. Depends on the mood of the trooper. Who you working for ? The way I understand it , is that you do not need a cdl but the company you work for should have a DOT ( corporation comm ) number on the vehicle. IMHO I wouldn't worry about it.
Call ODOT and ask. You don't have to use your own name or even name a company.
I work at Kirby Smith and calling ODOT is joke. I for sure know now that I dont need a CDL but I am concerned about weight restrictions as well as hour log, safety triangles, fire ext. etc.
You need to become friends with the FMCSA web site. It has all the info you need and check your state regulatoins to.
First of all welcome to the Forums wannarunem, glad to have you.:drinkup Here is a link to the OK commercial drivers license test booklet - http://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/pub/CMVDM.pdf Going from the chart in the Introduction 1-1, you don't need a CDL. The Fed rules require any commercial vehicle over 10k GVW that the driver have a valid DOT medical card and DOT numbers on the door. Fire extinguisher and triangles are just a smart thing to have in a rig like that regardless whether it's required or not. BTW - No texting, no email checking or hand held phone use while driving, hands free only. New Fed rule put in place last Jan. Driver fine $2750, company fine $11,000. :cool2 http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/rulemakings/final/Mobile_phone_NFRM.pdf
Thanks for the reply CM, I usually never go any further than about 100 miles and I do not cross state lines so federal law wouldnt apply to me right? Thanks for the link, I will read up on the subject
No problem. Yes the rules requiring a medical card and DOT numbers will apply to you. You can get a medical card from your family doctor or a doc in the box. Your company should already have a DOT #, if not they can apply and receive one online. Here is a link to the FMSCA section on DOT #'s, look under the section "Do I need one" as well as the online filing instructions. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/online-registration/onlineregdescription.htm
Over here the basic rule is that the trailer cannot weigh more than the towing unit. So we couldn't pull a 14k pound trailer with a 10k pound F250.
Having been down this road ( no pun intended ) I suggest that you do not register with the US DOT. You are not involved in interstate commerce. The Feds want you to think you are. But if you stay in one state, tell them to get ****ed. Several years ago, the Feds were trying to get arborists to get Fed DOT numbers, with the logic that the gas and oil came from (say ) Texas, while the company operated in a very different state. If they make a stink, you may want to revise your stance, but at present maintain that you are not involved in interstate commerce. And for gawds sake, don't ask the feds, cause they'll lie
Really. My math says they must be hauling helium
Federal law only applies to commercial vehicles over 26,000 pounds in inter- and intra-state commerce, and vehicles over 10,000# in inter-state commerce
Read a little more..:cool2 Oklahoma is a green lighted state. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/registration-USDOT.htm From the description of the OP's rig, it's a commercial vehicle, thus requiring a USDOT in Oklahoma.
A commercial vehicle weighs more than 26,000 pounds http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5 Thereby, because the truck and trailer combo of the OP is 24,000 pounds, it is not a commercial vehicle.
I wouldn't worry about towing 14k with a 10k truck.. That's fine, do get the us dot #s, triangles, spare fuses, light bulbs, Medical card, and inspected fire extinguisher.. You may need to replace the factory receiver hitch, unless Ford upgraded them recently, the last one I used had a 2.5" receiver with only a 5k weight carrying capacity..along with a 12k weight distributing capacity.. Neither are adequate.. Keep your truck and trailer in tip top shape and you'll have no trouble, I got a full inspection last yr, 45 minutes, all was good, was sent on my way.. The trooper was very thorough, he had a ball peene hammer and a pry bar, crawled around my enclosed trailer tapping the frame and had me steer while he pried on the truck ball joints. Full trailer brake inspection with breakaway test.. Not something you want to fail... Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Not according to this section - From - http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/rulemakings/final/Mobile_phone_NFRM.pdf The "Interstate" commerce clause above is trumped by Oklahoma's requirement to have a USDOT as indicated in the map I linked above, referring it to a green state. The Federal Rules are about as clear as mud...:beatsme
I know that all our trucks even pickups have the USDOT-FL number on their doors, I had always assumed if it were registered as a commercial vehicle then it must comply with such rules. I have a FHP Trooper Capt. friend who would know Florida rules and since FL-DOT Commercial Vehicle Enforcement and FHP recently combined he would have access to Federal regs as well. It might be a good idea to get myself updated...
Thanks for all of the info guys. I will help clear some stuff up from how I understand OK laws. My truck is GVW of 10k so I am not a "commercial vehicle" until I have a trailer connected. Once I have a trailer connected I am a commercial vehicle but Im under 26,000lbs so I do not require a CDL. My concern was the log book, usdot numbers etc. I work for a large company and we have USDOT numbers but we have a chick in charge of all of this but she is unfortunately horrible at doing her job and really has no clue what the rules really are. She is so bad that we are losing our #1 semi driver and I was trying to make 100% sure that I was legal for the sake of my job, especially if I hit someone I wanted to make sure that I wasnt breaking the law. I did not want to leave it in her hands LOL CM thanks again, Sounds like to be legal when I haul I will need USDOT numbers, triangles, fire ext., fuses etc., and a medical card. LMK If you think Im missing something but my last concern is the log book, do I need to keep any type of record while I am a hauling? The way that I am reading 395.1 section 2 is I do not need one because I do not go over 150 miles and I am the described in the underlined below. 2) Operators of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring a commercial driver's license. Except as provided in this paragraph, a driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.3(a)(2) and §395.8 and ineligible to use the provisions of §395.1(e)(1), (g), and (o) if: (i) The driver operates a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle for which a commercial driver's license is not required under part 383 of this subchapter; (ii) The driver operates within a 150 air-mile radius of the location where the driver reports to and is released from work, i.e., the normal work reporting location;
Just go to the man that will enforce it. Trooper Ragland normally sits at the Newcastle exit by the casino off of 44. All black SUV. He is fair but he does follow the letter of the law. Don't ask me how I know. ops I have his number if you would like to call him
Road trains, B doubles (aka B train, the term doubles is used in Oz to make them more social acceptable) and over size/weight vehicles are what is known as restricted access vehicles. We are talking about general access vehicles http://www.sa.gov.au/upload/franchi...Heavy vehicles and freight/mass_dimension.pdf However the rule still applies insofar that the weight on the steer and drive axles must be greater than that of the first tri axle group.
In Tenn., they would interpret the law and say that you require a Class "B" CDL, based on the trailer having a GVWR greater than 10,000#. If the two added together are 26K, then a Class A. In fact, sometimes there is even a page stating such taped to the license testing office wall.
i think the conclusion is, the rules are a clear as mud...
I think you are misreading the information: http://www.tn.gov/safety/driverlicense/CDL_Classifications.pdf If the GCWR is less than 26,000 lbs, no CDL is needed. Read page 2 again
As RTSmith said regarding Tennesse, in Idaho, if the GCVWR is 26,000 pounds or over, then the CDL is required long with the DOT number etc. The distinction is that it does not matter if your gross weight is under 26k, if the weight rating of the power unit and trailer exceeds 26000 you are subject to those rules. Edited afterthought - What sucks is that technically when we unhook the trailer from the pickup we are still supposed to have a CDL (as we are licensed for 30,000 lbs.) to drive just the pickup, which in my case is also my personal pickup. This means that my wife is not supposed to drive my pickup because she does not possess a CDL. We don't pay much attention to that though, and have not had any problems when just the pickup is being driven.
Not sure that is totally accurate, several of the large 4WD's have a towing capacity in excess of their GVM assuming independent brakes are fitted to the trailer. The gooseneck fifth wheel trailers are yet another case of their own. However, under Australian rules a 10,000 pound (4535Kg) F-250 would require a light rigid licence instead of a car licence. To tow a tralier at that weight would also require a ringfeeder, Bartlett Ball or pintle hook coupling. I personally think an F250 is way undergunned to be pulling 14,000Lbs at any rate.
Same here. I jackknifed a 30 foot offshore racing boat on a tri axle trailer pulling it with a 3/4 ton years ago. I was conservatively following a semi hauing a box trailer and he did a bonzai stop approaching an intersection with smoke shooting straight out from both sides of the trailer tires and I hit the brakes only to have the trailer brakes take the day off. In the minute and a half (mental time) it took me to realize I was going to become part of his cargo it dawned on me I better find another path out of harms way. So I bailed into a 'parked car lane' and luckly for me nobody was using the parking spaces. The truck/trailer ended up jackknifed, I ended up with a weird smell in the cab, and the folks at the intersection got quite a show. We went out a bought a 1 ton after that. Here's the deal...it all works until it doesn't. I can't tell you how many thousands of miles we pulled that boat with the 3/4 ton without a problem. But all it takes is one episode to change everything. I escaped with only a red face and soup shorts. It could have been much worse...
ointlaugh I've never heard the term "soup shorts" before, but I like it.
Since all of this is not confusing enough, I thought I would a New Mexico perspective. On the back of my driver's license it states: "Class D-single vehicle less than 26,000 lb. GVWR. May not tow vehicle in excess of 10,000 lb. GVWR unless equipped w/class 4 equalizer hitch or 5th wheel." I bought a 12k dump trailer to pull behind my old F-250. The first thing I did was get an equalizing hitch. I figured if I ever had an accident without that hitch--even if it not's my fault, a clever lawyer might figure it out and come after me. Very few people use those eq. hitches around here. I see several 12k trailers being pulled without them every day. It's a small pain to hook up, but rig does handle better. Having said all of that, I wouldn't try 14k off the "bumper." I would be looking at a gooseneck. As far a DOT number, since I am the registered owner (not a business or company) and since I am the only that drives it, I haven't gotten a DOT#. A lot of companies that run small fleets and stay mostly in town (Albuquerque) don't bother with them either.