My motor keeps cutting out. here is a chronological narrative of the onset of problem: (fuel is clean, all filters clean, have fuel to injection pump, no apparent fuel leaks) 1st sign: after starting and operating normally, when throttling down, rpm's would continue to drop off and motor would stall sometimes after this, starting would be difficult. several attempts, long cranks, then would start. sometimes would just start right back up. (I have added a manual fuel pump "bulb" since pumping the priming lever on the lift pump never seemed to move fuel, so I would pump the bulb between cranking attempts to try to make sure fuel was getting to motor) Once running again, I was able to prevent the stalling by very gradually dropping rpms back to idle. Once idle was achieved without stalling, it would idle normally without stalling. Up until yesterday, it would only stall out on deceleration after operating the backhoe for a while. There does not appear to be an overheating issue. temp gauge in cab has never indicated anything above normal. after a few days of operation without the problem reoccurring, yesterday the problem intensified. started right up 1st thing, ran normally for a few hours, including a couple shut downs and restarts with no stalling. then, it stalled from full rpm, not on deceleration. Now, starting is very erratic. After stalling, usually lots of cranking to get a start at all, but then again sometimes it just starts right back up. It would idle for a while, and then just cut out randomly. Now, as of this morning, throttle control seems very off. I just started it cold this morning with minimal cranking, bumped up rpms to let it warm up, but then throttle became unresponsive. attempting to throttle up rpm's had no effect and then engine cut out. Right now my only two ideas are either somehow air is getting into system or maybe the motor shutoff mechanism within the pump is malfunctioning? the cable operation between cab and lever on pump seems normal, and manually manipulating the lever on the pump does not seem to have an effect, although I'm not real sure... Anyone have any thoughts? Many thanks for looking.
This is the first thing I'd look at, because the rest sounds like internal injection pump voodoo, and if seafoam/trans fluid/ biodiesel don't cure it then I'm out of ideas. Do you understand that the priming lever on the lift pump only works when the the cam lobe is away from the arm? and the pump won't "pump" when the pressure is already up? If you open the outlet to drain out the fuel, and bump the engine over and the priming lever still won't pump fuel, then something is wrong and that's the first thing to fix.
I never knew that about the lift pump/cam lobe position before doing a bunch of reading this morning... not sure though exactly what it all means. I have had the bulb in place for quite a while now and have run it lots of hours with the bulb. I haven't done anything to the lift pump. the one time i ran out of fuel, when i went to bleed the system, the primer lever on lp moved fuel but very slowly, which is why i added the bulb... may have been that engine was in wrong position for lift pump operation... i don't know. but that was a couple years ago. the only thing I've done differently recently is switched to the Stanadyne fuel treatment that the perkins dealer here sells and recommends. (I have run bio in the past but too expensive now) So not 100% clear on how to check lift pump? open which outlet? where am i draining fuel from?
How long did you leave it with a tank of biodiesel? I think JD recommends using bio within 45 days to avoid "issues". The cam lobe operates the diaphragm just like the lever does, if the lobe is contacting the pump arm then the lever won't move anything, or have any resistance. Turn the engine over 90 degrees or so and see if it operates differently. I copied this I've written it so many times. This is how to tell if your lift pump is sucking air, pumped up, etc. It doesn't sound like that's your problem but if your pump isn't pumping a good squirt with the fuel line going into the injection pump disconnected, then go through this if you understand it. When you move that lever you're pulling the diaphragm back against spring pressure, release it and the spring pumps the fuel out, until the fuel pressure builds and holds the diaphragm back so there is no pressure on the lever because the spring is held back also (or there is pressure on half the stroke because the spring only pushed some of the fuel out). There is more pressure on the lever when the inlet is plugged and the lever/diaphragm is pulling against a vacuum. You can tell if the pump is pumping air and not full of fuel because it will have normal pressure pushing the lever, but it will spring back with the same pressure, no fuel to dampen the spring pressure. Do this before you start the machine and after it dies and you should be able to tell the difference. If you can't tell the difference, then start loosening hoses to see where you have fuel flow and what the pump lever feels like.
I've ran bio in three different vehicles now... have only had problems due to cold temps. didn't have any bio-d related problems with the perkins but did have a tank of dino fuel go bad with algae or some sort of gunk and gum up all the filters. i drained the tank flushed the lines and replaced filters. has been fine since. I am hoping this problem is due only to a faulty lift pump. Pretty sure there is something wrong with it... not sure it is cause of current symptoms. I am going to get a new lift pump tomorrow and install over the weekend. will report back with results
Make sure your fuel return line from the pump is clear and also the fitting where it comes out of the injection pump, I think there may be a check valve in it. Not sure what pump you have but some of these rotary pumps will shut down if there's any back pressure in the return. Just one more thing to check.
do you think the symptoms would be so inconsistent if there was a blockage in the return line? plus, that's filtered fuel running through there right? I will check it if the lift pump doesn't fix it. Thanks (It says "Lucas CAV" on my pump...)
The inconsistent stalling/failure to idle sounds like a sticky governor to me, but I don't know how that would work, just guessing. The easier possibility is fuel starvation or a blocked return. It is filtered fuel, but if the fuel gunked up in the injection pump then anything can get gummed up or plugged, or parts can come apart inside the pump plugging up the return. I'd take the lines apart from the tank to the pump and back, after making sure the transfer pump is working. Including the screen/fitting inside the tank.
Prepare yourself to pull the injection pump.. Those are classic symptoms of a sticking metering valve.. Inside of the inj. pump is probably gummed up.. EASIEST way to check is.. pull the return fitting from the top cover, the 1 closest to the engine block, and look at the bottom of the fitting and threads.. they're probably rusted.. If you can post the #'s off the pump I can aid in removal process..
yes that's what I was afraid of... (I threw on a new lift pump cause it was a cheap test... didn't fix it.) Motor will start right up pretty much every time IF I manually create pressure on the supply side of inj pump... seems to run until pressure runs out, although I cannot keep it running by manually pumping which seems contradictory. You mean the return fitting on the injection pump correct? That goes to the fuel filter manifold? The only figures I can see on my pump are Lucas CAV... it's a 1990 ** 60HX with Perkins AT4.236. Could you point out where to look on pump for #'s? Also, I have run some bad fuel through this thing... probably some water made it past the filter bowl at some point. What's weird to me though is that after I realized the fuel was bad, I drained, cleaned and changed everything... it has been running great for lots of hours since then. Seems like this should have shown up sooner if bad fuel was the problem? THANKS!
Not familiar with the fuel system but should get a fuel pressure reading as close to injection pump as possible. Then check lines to pump for restrictions. Fuel restrictions can give intermittent problems. Then check return lines for restictions. If all seems well I would have injection pump rebuilt. Good luck venison happy diagnosing. Keep us updated and hef loves pics.
There is a name plate on the side of the pump. Its probably painted over.. DONT SCRAPE IT.. get some gasket/paint remover in a spray can from the parts store/wallyworld.. spray it on & wipe it off..
I had similar problems on my Perkins Powered JCB 1400B, ended up finding there is a fuel filter mounted under the cab that I was not aware of, one of the fittings coming from that filter had somehow gotten loose and was sucking air in thru the rubber oilive on the fitting. Replaced the olive and it has been fine since.
hey pumpguys... I got most of the paint off my tag... which numbers do you need to identify pump? here is what I think is there but the #'s are difficult to read (getting old sucks) so not 100% sure of accuracy: Type: 561 DPA: 3348F2 Mod: 19913CH6 Ser: 2643C281M7/6/23??? Made UK Thanks!
3348F2?? need 2 more #'s..
ok I think it 3348F251... but again it's difficult to read. what does the number mean?
Nothing to you but EVERYTHING to me.. LOL That's the model # of the pump.. it tells me EVERY component that's inside the injection pump along with the part #'s and testing [calibration] data.. I've already looked it up and you have 1 of the easiest units there is, to remove.. Shouldn't take more than 1 hr .. and a set of basic hand tools.. If you'd like to get started, just email me direct.. just click on my name and hit send email..
On my jcb 215 with a Perkins 1004.40T engine it has almost the same numbers...but it seems yours is missing some. Mine is Type 688; #3348F212 which is what yours might be.
Your pump number might be 3348F212. I've got a JCB 215 with a Perkins engine that had a similar problem. I replaced the injector pump and cured my problem. I had to take a picture and blow it up of my pump ID to get it all.