Hey guys, I'm new to this backhoe so I don't know if this is common, but this is what I'm saying below, its my long winded story... perhaps some have been there? My 1988 John Deere 310c Backhoe boom piston bounces the boom way too much, it gets bouncy like crazy when the hoe bucket is empty, not bad when under working load, but it gets a good bounce going when I'm raising it up around the position like where I'm parking the boom and dipper stick in the up-right position so I can turn around and drive forward. If I'm doing something where I have the boom and dipper stick in that kind of position under no load its bouncing like I have a spring in there rather than a hydraulic piston. Its driving me crazy because it looks like I'm out of control when its just bouncing around. I just got the machine not long ago, so I'm new at operating it, I remember when I first got it there would be a little bounce as I neared parking the boom in the most up-right parked position. So now that I've learned how to operate the machine pretty good I'm seeing its bouncing way too much....so I don't know if it was always like that when I got it used, or the bouncing became more pronounced because of changing the fluid with Amsoil. I'll look again but I don't see any foam or bubbles in the hydraulic fluid, the levers operate good. I have to say, I don't know if its all in my head, but I think the hydraulics and the way things sound are not as quite when I was running it with the dirty black hyd fluid I got it with, because I remember when I first got the machine my ears were wide open listening to everything and the machine was quite with the old black fluid in it... so when I flushed it out with cheap fluid it was still okay, then very shortly after putting in amsoil ATH hydraulic fluid things just don't sound tight and quite like before.... now I'm getting a high squeal when I work the loader after a while like the fluid got hot and its making a lot of noise, it never did that before.... I can't believe I'm having a gut feeling being Amsoil is a great product its not for my JD because it may have been broken in with JD's Hy-Gard.... Does anybody else think the same? I feel like putting Hy-Gard in it to see if that pronounced squeal with the loader and the boom bounce goes away....
could be an O-ring in the controls...i know we have one CASE where the dipper sticks leaks down and another where the boom will leak down and that is the problem on them....it doesn't get bouncy though
Going with a synthetic hydraulic oil in a small and older model like the 310 was maybe not the best idea you had. In the first place, older hoes are much more likely to bust a seal or hose thus losing a lot of very expensive oil before you can shut it down. Even then the machine may continue to puke oil for a few minutes depending on where the leak occurred. Deere designed this machine to perform adequately with standard hydraulic 10wt oil, which is far, far cheaper to use. By the way, some hydraulic oils are black when new. It's possible that somehow you got an air bubble in the boom hoist cylinder, though these usually dissipate in a minute or so after startup. Another possibility is that the piston inside the cylinder is loose. That would cause a small bounce, also could account for the noise which may be oil bypassing the piston. Boom bounce in some models in not unusual however when trying to park the boom in the travel lock. It is just a geometry condition that comes with the machine and many brands all experience it to a certain degree. Has to do with the angle to the dangle you see. That's why they have the travel lock. Slap a couple of temperature recorder strips on the cylinder and the hydraulic reservoir to see what the oil temp is doing. Caterpillar dealers sell them in the parts department, Deere may too. If the temps are ok, pull the hydraulic filter and check for excessive metal particles. If there is a lot, you have a definite problem somewhere. Unless you are working in extreme ambient temperature conditions, synthetics in older machinery with practically ancient technology, is just a waste of money.
overfill just throughin it out there ive had similar problems with putting it to level with the boom not exstended and the same with underfilling and leaking
I'd like to hear more about the hyd. fluid thats black when new, do you happen to remember which brands they are? I looked at it this way, I compared the costs with buying synthetic oil/fluid to the conventional oils, the prices have gone up now, but back when I was figuring the costs the JD Hy-Gard is around $52.00 plus tax for a bucket, and a bucket of Amsoil synthetic is $98.00 plus shipping... So being my machine takes close to (4) of the 5 gallon buckets that makes it about an extra $200.00 I spent for synthetic, but I figure that $200.00 is a wash out or pretty close to it because you leave the synthetic in longer, so I never did the math to get an exact number to see if I'd actually be saving money with synthetic or it cost a little more to use.... I think a lot of people don't know they don't have to pay the $149.00 for a bucket of Amsoil ATH hyd fluid, you can become a preferred member for $10.00 and get that 5 gallon bucket for $98.00. I'm going all John Deere from now on for everything. If I was to stick with synthetic I'd want the oil & fluid analyzed so I know its working, I'd feel better going into something new like that knowing I doubled checked its okay to leave the fluid in longer. I'm going to agree with you on not the best thing to have done because of the few things I found and hear that I strongly believe its the Amsoil. I'm not saying Amsoil is no good, I Know Amsoil is a very good product, but it was not for my backhoe with 9k hours on it.... I strongly believe once you've run and broken in a machine with a specific kind of oil the whole time you owned it since it was new you have to stay with that same product, which is most likely what the company did who had my machine before me, I got the whole file on it from the company who owned it before. I should call that company and ask them what oil & fluid they used in my backhoe where they got 9k hours on it and its still running and sounding great. Thank you very much surfer-joe for the insight and tips to try, I appreciate finding out the few things I didn't know about.
As I recall, either Kendall or Amoco used to make a hydraulic oil that was dark brown or black in color. I haven't actually seen any in the last few years. DA may also have produced a dark oil for hydraulic service. There may be others. Oh, a Deere 310 at 9000 hours is on the verge of a lot of things, all bad. It may be that yours was taken good care of, I hope so. I've known of some that went out 14-15 thousand hours before needing major overhauls or component replacements. Most of these were private one-owner machines. Company owned units with multiple operators or involved in double-shift operations usually do not fare so well.
First, why do you think it is a hydraulic problem? Do you actually see the cylinder moving? What it probably is, is that the bushings and or pins are worn out and sloppy. You get 1/8 -1/4" slop in the pins and bushings and that will translate to quite a bit at the other end 6' to 8' away.
Actually, I suspect that you are seeing 'bounce' as you call it. I'm guessing that hoe is designed/built very similarly to the 210 that I know, and it suffers some from that same 'bounce' effect from time to time. Easiest way to describe it......think that you are hooked on a rock or stump, and the teeth slip, letting the bucket/boom come up. When it does, it then 'bounces' up and down some, like there's a great big spring in the cylinder. The 210 has done that as long as I've known it, about 8-10 years, and the machine is older than that.
Try an oil analysis, could be water in the oil. As the oil gets hot the water will vapourise easily in low pressure suction line at the pump. These do not dissipate and then you have bubbles in your oil giving all sorts of strange noises as it passes though valves, pumps and other resrictions. Good luck.
How can one tell? dirt digger, I was wondering how to find out if I have a problem with my valves and not a problem with the O- rings in the piston? I have a ford 550 and my boom will leak down also.
FYI: Update I don't remember how much I got into saying at first shortly after I got the backhoe I changed the hydraulic fluid with amsoil...... come to find out the amsoil was not working well in my machine.... you were headed in the right direction surfer-joe about mentioning air bubbles, every time I pulled the oil stick I'd see small bubbles on it that I never use to see, so what I'll say in my own words what I think my problem was is that the fluid in the boom piston was not giving a good compression to avoid a bouncy boom cylinder. plus I had a few other issues, I was getting many noises that made me weary as to why the hydraulic were so noisy, I was able to hear fluid pass thru everything, I also didn't like the way the valves and over all system sounded.... So I put all John Deere Hy-Gard in the machine and its like a brand new machine! I'm still in shock how quite it got, I don't hear anything buzzing and burping anymore, plus the response from the levers are so great, the machine feels very tight like it's new.... I still can't believe by draining the hydraulic fluid and using John Deere Hy-Gard made this kind of difference.... It never occurred to me fluid can make that kind of difference. Thanks everybody for your input, the stabilizers are so much stronger now that before I thought the pump was getting weak... but I'm going to still poke around as to why the stabilizers make that chatter sound when I pull the levers going down.... sometimes depending the idle and speed I pull the levers its not as loud, and sometimes there is no chatter...
I just learned of a few types of testing I can do to see what shape the engine is in. thats when you bog down the engine by over working over loading the hydraulics, I pull on the on loader bucket lever and hoe arm lever at the same time while looking at the color of the exhaust smoke, if it's blue it's this, and if it's black it's that.... My exhaust color stays the same, barely any kind of color change at all, it's always pretty clean and fair to light in color no matter what I do, it's not like it's a puffing smoking machine... But I would like to have someone else read my engine smoke and color who has a lot more experence than me, so I can get a better handle on what shape its in. Plus from asking and looking around I've heard people say things like, they have or know of the same kind of engine that was at 14k hours and it was strong and running good.... so for what I need to do around my property I might end up putting a total of 500 hours on it before I sell it.... I do have to say, over hear in New England USA the prices of used run down backhoes in really bad shape these people are asking and demand a fortune and such a high price I know once I put my machine up for sale it will go with the first person that looks at it.... I looked at about 15 machines before I bought mine, I was looking at units like a Case 380 that the interior was destroyed like a bear lived in it, no brakes at all, the engine smoked and had such a bad cylinder miss, it was a mess and the guy would not budge from wanting 9k for the unit, and thats with out being able to drive it... another machine I looked at was a 1969 and the hoe arm was cracked at least 90% thru at the bottom where it pivots, and he was not budging from wanting 7K... I seen a huge amount of flat out junk that should have been taken apart for the good parts left and put the rest on the scale for the price of what steel was going for per pound.... So when I seen my unit for 15500.00 I had to jump on it so fast because I was shocked for that price over here in Connecticut I was able to drive it and test it out, and it was the first machine I seen where the guy didn't start it up before I went to see it.... I have so many other stories you won't believe, so if you live in an area where people are educated with what they have and what the true real value's are with the machines they have for sale and don't forget knowing what shape its in you're very lucky..... because my other option was to join in with the auctions, but there is no way I'm dumping thousands on a machine I can't drive around to test the reverser, if it over heats, if the hydraulics are okay, etc...
Hi I have a Jcb 1cx 2007 which I have just fitted a new pump to due to a crack in the port connector. New oil in the system and I am suffering from boom bounce and poor control of the backhoe. Any ideas where to start?
Typical symptom of air in the hydraulic system. Dead-end the offending cylinders and hold the lever to force the bypass valve to open.
Work the cylinder the full length of the stroke, you might have to dig a hole or back up to a hill to do this, at least get the cylinder below horizontal and work it up and down to try to get the air out.
Great I will have a go on Monday