I just purchased a 650J and am learning the ropes. Can someone tell me what the float position on the blade control is for and is it typically used on the forward, reverse, or both directions?
Backblading, too clean up your track marks, Snow plowing forward on frozen ground.
If you happen to blow a lift cylinder hose and can't lift the blade without spraying oil everywhere you can put it in float and it will make it easier to back up to a place where you can do repairs.
A really good dozer hand often does not use the bade float. He controls it manually at all times, under any circumstances, in any direction. The hallmark of the ultimate newbie is no track marks. Ah, those were the days.
Lol, I so agree. I ran the Dozer for 6 months a my last job before Someone else used it and pointed out the float didn't work.
Basically it relieves the pressure in the lift rams and allows the blade to follow the contours of the ground, really only good for back blading, as when going forward the weight of the blade and the angle of the cutting edge will cause the blade to dig in unless you are working on a hard surface. If you are carrying a full blade of dirt u can put it in float going forward and the material in front of the blade will stop it from digging in and it will follow the ground contours. I spent many thousands of Hrs on dozers and usually only used float when backblading a pad or something similar in the finishing passes. Cheers RDG.
It is incase you drive into deep water, maybe while cleaning out a pond or....you push the control to float postion and finish going accross the pond :laughing:. Kind of like R on an auto trans means race:laughing:. Just kidding everyone else allready covered what it's for, it does come in handy for back blading. Most new tractors will have it also on the FEL
I learn something every day on this forum. Is this true for motor graders too like CAT which also have blade float detents? Seems like you wouldn't need extra flotation with a grader on account of the newmatic tires...
I have a friend that loves to be the best at every thing. While Im still getting better at finishing I dont back drag unless its to get the track marks away from te working face of the landfill before a rain. My friend wanted to out show me so whil I was gone he back drug the pad then tracked forward over the pad and then back again. Then moved over a blade width and did it again. I caught him on that won showing him the direction the dirt was drug in. We had a big laugh over it. I have a friend that runs a gas line company. He hase a small mid 90s Case dozer with a set of rubber tracks and a side boom. On a 6 inch gas line install I was there to loan them my welder. I was sitting there and my friend asked me to back fill and dress up. While we were there the county man asked me about working on some road improvements. They had grass and topsoil built up on the sides of the blacktop holding the water in the road. Float worked great. I just set the angle on the blade and put it in float and let som of the Edge lay on the blacktop and let it rip. Made for some slick work following the ground. .
Maybe track loaders with 4n1's ruined me from ever being a good dozer hand, but i'll never understand the stigma for back dragging float or no float.
Thanks for your help on this. I really appreciate it......
Yes you can use foote if you don,t have too far to go
In my early yrs a foreman told me if they wanted the edges sharpened they'd pull them off and use a grinder on them, LOL!! Mike
The last floater I seen on the job was so high he could hunt geese with a rake. We sent him to rehab.
Now that is one I have never heard before, but I'll remember it!
Nothing more sexy than a nice set of tracks on a finish grade. ....
I have put several thousand hours on small dozer doing mostly residential work. The blade has two sides and you have to be able to use both of them. You have to be good at blading forward because that is how you set grade but also need to be able to slick it off and clean up your track marks. I think the mark of a good operator is no track marks in a finish grade. That being said I don't ever use float to back blade. I see this is an old thread but this is a subject that bugs me when I hear you should never back blade because you are only getting half the use of the machine and limiting your self by thinking that way.
What does a set of track marks really hurt? Most pads, roads, etc. get ran over with some sort of packing device after final cut. I'm with the other guys. I never drag out my tracks. Anybody can back-drag. Good operators cut level and smooth.
Actually with a 6 way blade,and a 4 way for that matter you can grade both ways but the float function will not be part of it.Even the bigger dozers with tilt can be used to advantage while reversing.Just to clarify this you are grading both ways by controlling the grade by making adjustments with the blade control.If you are not grading you are just along for the ride.Ron G
Here is a pic for Dr Ernie.I was applying for a job and the owner was impressed enough to hire me I guess.Actually I was running that D8H in my avatar I think,maybe it was a D8N,not sure now but it is fun to be able to do the things that will impress other operators.It got me the job anyway.Ron G
I have to agree with DR ERNIE. this is some of my waterway work done to N.R.C.S. specs.
This is the type of work I am talking about, no point in bringing in another piece of equipment to get ready for landscaping. As I said you have to be able to blade both ways and float has nothing to do with either. This pic was stolen from Land clearers thread in showtime. Doesn't look like a newbie to me.
Yair . . . In some/most soil the detent can be used when production dozing in properly constructed slots . . . that is to say when the blade is fully loaded pushing a train of dirt in the slot you can slip the blade into float and the load will come off the tractor and it will often gain a bit of speed. The caveat is that (as I have said on here before) very few operators know how to construct and work a proper slot. Cheers.
Exactly.
There are times when I back blade intentionally.If you have wet material and are trying to dry it out so that you can process it for some other purpose backblading it gives the surface maximum exposure for the sun and the wind to do their thing and of course if you expect more rain you can prepare it to drain properly.One of the marks of a good operator is how he leaves the job site looking at the end of the day.Ron G
Hi , the float position can also be used in the shop when a blade ( or a bucket - track loader ) has to be raised without starting the engine . Of course you need a lifting device . Another thing : In the 70-ies there was a Cat instruction film about dozers and scrapers . Once the pusher had contacted the pushblock it was shown that the operator put the handle in float position to follow the vertical movements of that push block when the bowl is lifted or dropped . Although I was involved in dozer and scraper work for some decades I never told the operators to do so . With the blade in float position the pusher will lose some weight and thus traction while the rear end of the scraper will be heavier . Have a nice day , johan7
I agree; roughing in sub grade before covering with topsoil.
Now THAT is a showpiece. Nice work, Oxbow.
Thanks Shimmy; a compliment indeed coming from you!
Yea Johan7, I have tried that pushing scrapers; never worked out well for me.
Excellent work td15c & Oxbow ! :thumbsup On some jobs I track it all in on purpose for packing and on slopes. The grouser marks also help hold in new seed when trying to get something to grow on it when the job is done . Other then that I mostly rough it all in with a dozer . Will have some dirt rifts left & small piles to deal with later with a farm tractor & box blade . My thinking is do the rough work with the dozer and finish up with tractor . My dozer burns around 10 gallon of fuel an hour , farm tractor might burn 2 . Not to mention the box blade is pretty forgiving , just drop it down & have a barley soda on finish up .:drinkup
I'll have to try the float the next time I'm slot cutting and see how it works.
Impressive!!Wish I had taken more pics ) Ron G
I agree that is top notch grading, but curious how did you or would you finish the topsoil for seed if you are trying to get a yard with minimal hand work that can be mowed with a lawn mower? Would you dress it up with the cat so there are no track marks and no berms that can't be kicked out with your toe or bring in another piece of equipment to drag it? Just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.If you can grade that good forward,I would expect you can do it backwards, but it is not that easy to do it right. I will say that it anything bigger than a D 6 with a p a t blade is not good for doing that type of back blading so I don't bother.
Very nice Ron ! It's a shame the contractor didn't have a International TD 18 on site for the job interview . You really could have showed them up on that rig .
For you Scrub! Will this work?
Yair . . . Gotcha Oxbow. Looking good . . . I'd have to see how he cleans the rills and rips the next floor before he gets full marks. (big grin) Cheers.
The lost art of slot dozing! Remember this thread, Scrub? ... A lot of arguing went on... but I still agree with you... :cool2 HeavyEquipmentForums ! BTW, I usually use the "float detent" when I'm plowing snow off a logging road, or such... the ground has to be frozen pretty good, though. Lol, you know what happens if it isn't... OCR...
Yair . . . Gotcha OCR. That goes back a ways. The machinery may have changed, but the dirt remains the same. (big grin) Cheers
I'd like to see your "big grin" in person someday Scrub! You are a character that I would like to meet.
Yair . . . Oxbow Like wise mate . . . along with a whole lot of other folks on here who make this site unique. Cheers.
Thank you TD25,you don't see too many CCUs on site any more,being used for blade control anyway.It seemed like mind control carrying a grade with those things.Ron G
Hi all , I like to emphasize that a float position is not a privilege for hydraulic dozers . Cable dozers were equipped with a float position as well . Have a nice day , johan7
Indeed johan7, and one would often see the cables get a bit of slack when pushing a scraper or dozing without employing the float position on the control lever.
Yair . . . . Well said Oxbow . . . and to hark back to my hobby horse of production dozing . . . if the blade won't bury with the blade in the "float" detent the material is not in a fit state to push. Just because with a hydraulic blade an operator can "get a good boil going" and move the material doesn't mean he is doing it in the most productive manner . . . judging by the amount of bare azzed tractors I see playing in the dirt it seems this basic truth is long forgotten I believe the only material that does not require ripping is sand, loamy topsoil and some types of gumbo clay . . . I always tell operators to imagine they are on a tractor with a cable blade with no down pressure. The machinery may have changed but the dirt remains the same. In most cases a tractor without rippers is only half a tool . . . I mean to say you can knock a nail in with a hammer head with out a handle but it is going to take a while. Cheers.
Good point Scrub!
Someday I will have to try a machine that does not have cable. I'm afraid I might get spoiled. My closest production machine to hydraulic in a hobby sort of way is a 9U with cable blade that has a hydraulic power tilt added to it.
Blimey, Scrub, you must be spoilt in Oz. Most of the stuff I've pushed over here, you could rip it until the cows come home and you still have to put the weight down to get the blade into it, including our clay. Personally I like to stab the blade in hard and get her loaded in about a machine length, then drift along. Obviously depending on material and job requirements...
Yair . . . ih100 Sounds like you are doing alright . . . provided you are working front to back. Cheers.
Thanks, Yoda.