Hi, all, I've been wondering about solvents...Its a big topic but nearly every solvent that I have heard of/used can kill you either slowly or quickly. I remember, as a teen, washing engine parts in open buckets of leaded gasoline on my dads orchard. Without rubber gloves-- bare hands. No cancer yet, 50 years later..so far. Maybe I survived because I don't smoke. What about the fast-evaporating solvents? Brake clean, starting ether, contact cleaner...? It seems like every time I use that kind of stuff I end up with a snootfull of the smell which means it is settling out in my lungs. I currently use "varsol" in my parts cleaner wash tank. Its an Esso product and seems to work reasonably well until it gets loaded with oil from cleaning. It is also very expensive--I just bought a 5 gallon pail the other day with no change from a 100$ Canuckistan peso. I did a quick search of the HEF site for solvents and didn't see much mention of any solvents that might be a little safer for us guys. Well, maybe except for alcohol. Someone suggested that biodiesel B100 seemed pretty decent as a solvent and wasn't too poisonous. I haven't seen much comment on the "citrus" cleaners/water based solvents that are supposed to be what the big companies use in their shops for solvents. I tried some a bunch of years ago when I ran a shop but it wasn't worth the powder to blow it to H*ll. We went back to varsol. But chemical technology has come a long way since then. Anything better around now? I've heard that ultrapure water is a heck of a solvent--water that is purified for big boiler systems apparently has to be run in stainless steel pipes as it will dissolve plain steel pipe. Has anyone seen this stuff used as a solvent cleaner? Jon.
I would like to try some of the newer tech solvents We use varsol in the parts washers and brake cleaner for final rinse and in place cleaning. I’m not thrilled about the heavy amount we have to use
I use the System One parts cleaner w/ Varsol.. The tank has a recycler on it, when it gets REAL dirty u push a button & it slurps the dirty solvent down & fills the tank w/ clean solvent.. THEN, it super heats the dirty stuff in a lower tank & it seperates the dirt & oil & stores it in a lower tank ready for the next round.. The dirty oil sludge is removed via a drain spout.. its nasty..
Water is the universal solvent... Add some lemon juice, or cider vinegar, for a little faster action. To get rust off, I kinda found out by accident, that a wad of wet grass clippings, in a 5 gallon bucket, works wonders.(gotta 5 gallon bucket that I soak mower blades in, to loosen the green stain on the blades, prior to grinding, balancing, and painting, only change the water 1x per year!)
I bought one of these and have been pleasingly surprised how well it works.
The citrus based cleaners work very well in spray wash cabinets. I don't think they would work in a normal parts washing tank. I use mineral spirits in the parts washer and lots of brake clean. I try to wear nitrile gloves.
For high volume cleaning; engine components, trans, etc
I wondered for many years about how many years I've cut off the end of my life using JP5, kerosene, diesel fuel, stove oil, gasoline, Stoddard solvent, citrus solvent, brake clean and ether. The dish washers were coming out when I left the dealer shops and the detergents were supposedly just crazy toxic so they say. Rubber gloves only became a requirement at the dealer shops in the last few years but I can't stand them on my hands for very long. My hands start sweating and then the skin softens and splits. I used a field service carry parts washer on the last service truck I worked out of which used Stoddard solvent and loved that tool. Plastic tank on the bottom and steel top bowl with an electric pump with hose and brush. Have had the solvent wet my arms to the pits at times washing big parts. So what is new in the world of cleaning parts? I have brake clean but for the most part use ether in the field for the little jobs I do anymore. It's cheaper and I don't worry about growing new forms a life inside my body so far.
I have one too, not exactly enthralled with it, It seemed like their solvent/detergent worked much better 2 years ago, I change out the fluid about every 3 months and even fresh stuff isn't working like it used to. I'm using the "hottest" stuff they have. I will say that diluting the used stuff with water cleans the tank very well, we just dump it into the wash pad drain and whatever is left the recycler truck sucks out of the sump. Not really much mess. It is rough on your skin though, like working with dish soap.
Hot water pressure washer works quite well with probably the least long term health but is terribly messy and you end up wearing most of the grease I avoid washing as much as I can if it doesn't need to be clean its not going to get cleaned After running in stoddard solvent a rinse in hot tap water really makes a difference
Guys, it looks like we struck a common nerve with this topic! Appreciate all the comments and I hope we see lots more! I'm particularly interested in the System 1 process where the Varsol product is actually distilled after it gets dirty to be able to be re-used. I've wondered about doing that in the past but don't know enough about the chemistry of the solvent(s) to know how things like the distillation temperature affected the dirty solvent. Would you get a zombie Varsol (1) after the first distillation, and zombie Varsol(2) after the second distillation and finally come up with fine Vodka after the 20th distillation? In other words, not really cleaning the Varsol but getting a solution that looked clean but actually has bad actors starting to form along with the Varsol? It looks like an expensive setup, too. Anyone know how much? Do you have to use their solvents or can you actually use Varsol? I've seen what high pressure hot water can do for cleaning and that seems to be a relatively safe procedure, other than the cleaning soaps that can be used to cut grease. Also pretty expensive ($3-5K) and lots of maintenance, at least the ones I've been around. Sucks in the wintertime. (taking apart a planermill in Northern Alberta and shipping to Arizona- the border boys want the stuff clean.) One product I've heard about but never tried myself: plain old diesel fuel. Does it work worth a darn? Since (I think) its just a light oil it probably isn't as poisonous as some other items we use. Still looking for someone who has played with using B100 as a solvent. I don't know where I might get something like that to try. Does anyone out in HEF-land have access to toxicity comparisons between the various solvents? Maybe a safety guy who can look up all sorts of this stuff? So if I use an aromatic solvent such as brake cleaner will it kill me faster than if I use starting ether? What about if I wear gloves so at least I don't absorb the stuff though my skin? What about if I wear a respirator? (fat chance at that!!) I like the suggestion "if it don't need cleaning, I don't clean it". Although we don't want bits of that dirt to fall where we may NOT want it when we are manhandling the thing back into place. I get the idea we are all in some sort of rush, pushed or otherwise need to GET THE JOB DUN!!! so we use whatever we got on the service truck to do the cleaning. I find I tend to resort to lots of towelling which probably is better on my lungs than any aromatic solvent you can breathe in or absorb though your skin but each cleaning task is different... There is no right answer to the question of cleaning solvents but i am trying to hear what everyone has used, tried and how well it worked. And what kind of gunk you were working to clean up!! Thanks, Jon.
At 1st we "rented" the system 1 tank & they kept servicing it every other month?? or 1x a month?? Then we bought it outright & used Varsol in it exclusively.. no problems.. 1 note tho.. it doesn't like water.. we added a water separator to it & change the filter 1x a year.. as far as temp goes to sterilize the dirty Varsol.. IDK.. ITS HOT tho.. VERY HOT.. The tank has those heater burners in it like a water heater has.. or a heated acid tank would have..
Mineral Spirits in the parts tank. I use 142 in the field with brake cleaner.
Do you know what the servicing procedure is? I'm thinking it is cleaning the heating tank of tarry residue that might form when hydrocarbons are heated.
Jon, ARMEX is used to clean industrial plant equipment, no toxic works similar to using a pressure washer. I've used ARMEX to clean Co-Gen cooling towers. https://www.armex.com/
I do not really know about all that but will add this. I am allergic to most hand cleaner. My hands break out with what looks like pimples. They are quite painful and last for several weeks. Anything with lanolin is out of the question. It took about twenty five years of use to develop this condition. Company I worked for had a commercial account with the parts washer. They serviced the machine and my hands blew up. Explained that to the service man the next go round. He said the color of the cans indicated new, recycled or used solvent. I will just bring you new solvent from now on and see how that works for you. It was fine after that. That's all for now and just saying there is a difference.
Have you tried Worx hand cleaner?
I FORGOT about THAT tenwheeler.. YES, BIG DIFF. in NEW & recycled fluid.. We had the SAME problem.. They were CHARGING FOR NEW when they were using recycled.. You/I can tell just by the SMELL of it.. I worked in a place that had prob. 10-15 tanks.. & caught the guy doing it.. & reported him to my manager.. U wanna talk about sparks fly'n.. & some of the tanks were HUGE.. probably 50 gal machines.?? I don't know what they charged between the 2 fluids but can u imagine the cost?? Using recycled & charging for new.. I was "new" at the time & can only imagine how long it had been going on.?? I never asked.
Chemical waste treatment requires a lot of testing beforehand before the chemists can try to formulate a treatment plan. Part of the problem with a random distillation is you are trying to extract the solvent hydrocarbons from a soup of other organic compounds, and there is no real way to detect what your solvent has aside from laboratory testing like spectrum analysis. Did a little chemistry research - varsol/mineral spirits are 7-14 chain hydrocarbons with a boiling point of 148C/298F. A lot of the simpler organic solvents that I know of (Acetone, benzene, carbon tetrachloride, Toluene) boil below 100C. One other thing to consider is the pH level of the solvent. Excluding the presence of toxic compounds, I suspect this may be a potential cause for the skin irritation tenwheeler mentioned.
I use diesel in my parts washer, mine is on a 30 gal metal barrel, the pump line stays off the bottom, so the crud tends to settle to the bottom. I don't mind the smell of diesel, and it will cut old grease/ dirt, etc. Which is most of what I have stuck on stuff. I don't have to get things super clean like the injector pump shop would.
No but thanks for the reply. Lots of choices out there like cherry go-jo, some Zep stuff. Cresto etc. I may look into that as they tend to be expensive for hand cleaner.