Sitting in my office today, and I heard a guy come in, and got an application from my Secretary. After he left, I walked to the front window to see what he looks like. We have tinted windows and he can't see in, but, we can see out. First thing I notice is he's not driving, his wife or girlfriend drove him here. What's that tell ya? DUI. Second thing I notice is the front windshield is cracked bad. And the car is a hoopty. Third thing I notice, his girlfriend opens the door and dumps a soft drink out, right in front of my door. Fourth thing I notice, she flips a cigarette out on the concrete. Fifth thing I notice, his girlfriend is filling the application out. Sixth thing I notice, he's about to go to sleep, and is picking his nose. What do ya'll think? hire him and train him to run heavy equipment?
I say find the most expensive piece of equip. you got, give him the keys & say "knock yourself out". Although - 1. Could be DUI, but there are sometimes when my wife drives if we are running errands. 2. I have drove a couple trucks that weren't great pieces of machinery, but they were paid for & I didn't have a lot of cash - but they should get the windshield fixed. 3. Thats rude 4. Thats gonna be against the law in IL. pretty soon. 5. No excuse for the guy 6. We all pick our noses right? we just hope he didn't eat his boogers. I see where as an employer hiring a potential employee, where some red flags might enter your thoughts.
And as he was pulling off I noticed: The car had no hubcaps His/her car puked oil over my new concrete parking lot.
Thing is...That was supposedly his GOOD behavior.
He don't really want a job he was just going through the motions to satisify his wife or girlfriend. Can't fix stupid!
Hi Impact, Mabe you should have gave the girl the job, sound like she is wearing the pants, You should have went out and told them to take there trash with them. sam.
sounds like you got your self a good ol full bloodied red------n-e-c-k we will let you keep him cause we got enough here. and they wonder why we love working Mexicans .
He may be on parole or something as has to look for a job. Otherwise, he could be doing it to document for his unemployment. I don't know what is going on with people either. We don't even take application's here at our office because of that. We give you our website and the application is there. If you can't fill it out online then we are not interested anyway. I can't stand people that leave their trash around and don't care. Just like I don't like cigarette butts and beer caps/can's laying about in my yard. My guy's are great but other people come down and pitch their trash wherever. Same as the people that want to store stuff in my yard for free, they fill my dumpster up when they come down as well. No common respect and loss of values in the United States has caused much of this. I have Mexicans and they are clean, keep their trucks clean and never miss work and are not lazy. Regards, CD
I had to say that I don't want any more Mex--at my place, We hired a roofer to install a new roof, then the showed up it was mexicans, every think looked ok, untill i saw a bucket of crap..sh.. in the pool.. Then it started to rain, the wife had all the pots and pans in the living room, that was it for me. I ended up fixing the roof myself, and installing a new liner in the pool. Also they left another pile of crap at another house, they worked hard at screwing things up, NO NO more for me. sam.
While I would be less then impressed he might be a good hand. One of our best labors is a real POS. Worse then the guy you just posted about. The guy bust his butt though and is doing things right now most won't. My wife has done most of my applications. I don't have very good hand writing and things on the computer... Well she types 45+ words a min.
your no rookie, first impressions and your gut instinct are usually correct. too bad you had to waste a piece of paper and printer ink on that person.
I was once told to never hire anyone that didn't already have a job, I'd also venture a guess you might not have been the only one to have a similar impression of them.
I've found it don't much matter the nationality. Seen Latinos in the woods leave a hazardous waste cleanup site. Seen whites that couldn't frame a door or a window in three times the time it took a couple of illegals to do it for a third the money. Seen retail houses and apartments that were close to having to be lit on fire to clean up the mess for both. Mr. Impact, I think your risk assessment is spot on.
Good policy if you can afford it, kinda like never renting to anybody who doesn't have a steady rental history already-nobrainer. I was talking to an acquaintance who has quit about a dozen jobs in the last few years. Quit the latest job, then takes his nephew out to celebrate the nephew's 21st birthday, says there was a scuffle at the bar so they left, then got jumped by a bunch of big guys so he threw them off and then they chased him around the squad car. To make matters worse, the skinny kid that says he got hit ID's him as the guy who did it. My friend swears if he had hit the guy there WOULD have been a mark, and I believe him after the number of tools I've seen this guy break. It gets better because he says he'll be OK because he'll get onto disablility any day now, I'm thinking maybe you should get the dashcam of you throwing the cops around? No resolution to the charges yet, but he does have a new job in heavy equipment, hope he get's huber...
Impact, you might have saved yourself ABUNCH of trouble.. Try to follow THIS STORY.. I know of a company that HAD an ACE mechanic.. AND I MEAN ACE.. This dude could fix ANYTHING, gas or diesel.. when he wasn't smoking crack.. Got the company service truck impounded TWICE in "crack stings" while out on service calls.. tools, parts and all.. and they kept him!! Lost his DR. License in 1 court case and they kept him.. now mind you he WAS a road mechanic.. so they had to assign him a "driver".. IF a driver wasn't available, they would send him in a CAB!! He once had to go to training school ON A BUS !!! and called back for more money BEFORE HE GOT THERE!!! spent it all on "party favors" He or should I say.. The coke machine at work kept getting "broken into".. bills and change removed.. companys solution?? A MEMO>> to whom it may concern.. PLEASE stop breaking into the soda machine.. ***??? OH it gets BETTER.. one nite just before closeing.. a customer walks in w/$3500.00 cash to get his equipment.. counter guy wants to go home so he doesn't put it in the safe, just leaves it in the locked cash drawer.. 3 people at the front counter see this.. guess who was 1 of them? that nite the front gate was cut, the front door was crowbarred and the cash box was the ONLY THING MISSING!! ripped right off under the counter. The guy didn't show up for work for days..{bender** The company NEVER fired him.. He finally died from a drug OD. Your damn right.. WHATS WRONG WITH PEOPLE??
So you are saying that the company is responsible for this guys' untimely demise? I think it sounds like a classic case of "Attractive Nuisance". Like if someone climbs the fence and gets into my pool and drowns it's obviously my fault for having put the pool there!
I don't know how you came to THAT conclusion kshansen.. BUT NO.. Just a story about, "what's wrong w/people"..
I think he was sharing how unbelievable anyone would continue to employ such an idiot.
If they don't pass the "look test" with me, I do not waste an application, another second or thought on them... Basically speaking if they look like a bum, they probably are or if they are too lazy to at least look and act decent trying to get a job, I do not need them.
Yes my poorly made point. I'm reminded of a story about a outfit near here that had a diver who could be depended on to always get his deliveries on time but the boss knew he could never pass a DOT drug test so they had another driver sub for him when it came time to pee in the bottle. Not sure if this guy is still out on the road running his 18 wheeler. Scary to think what some people will do in the name of saving some money. I was told a story about a trucking firm not far fro
When I had hired help if they wanted to take application with them to have someone else fill it out it told me they could not read. Never had place for illiterate around here.
its not as common as it used to be, but I still know of several guys that cant read street signs/directions & travel & deliver goods across this country!! its sad that in this day & time that there are still people like you that don't want to help out guys like this. I will tell this, I remember probably 35 years ago now a guy that would bring letters to the house for my mom to read to him, I thought then that I would do a lot better in school & do my best to keep anyone else from ever having to go thru not being able to read. I even donate time to read to kids in my daughters preschool in the mornings. that left a impression on me that I hope none of my kids ever have to see, but there are still kids that graduate high school that cant read at a grade school level!!! :soapbox
I know several smart as a whip fellows who are dyslexic, they can read, in the same way I can load a dump truck with a shovel. It's much more practical for me to get a loader, and it's much more practical for them to get a wife to fill out forms. I know two very good mechanics, a logging contractor who owns a multi-million dollar co. w/ 25 or 30 employees, and, believe it or not, an electronics technician. Mitch
I personally know, a "colored blind" HVAC guy.. he has a helper.. You ever looked at the WAD of wires under the cover of an A/C unit?? WOW!!
If the economy is not busy, contractors lay off people or even go out of business. Then those people are unemployed. How is an unemployed person supposed to get a job if no one will ever hire them? That being said though, there was NO excuse for that guy to throw his trash out on the original poster's property-I hate people like that.
Buckethead, as for not hiring anyone without a job, just because he can't find a job in his profession, doesn't mean he can't find a job, the one who's far over qualified to do a simple job is still the one I'd hire over one holding out for the ideal job, means to me can get off his butt and do what needs doing no matter what it is, those that feel they are too qualified to do menial work really don't want to work in my opinion. I've seen plenty of college professors, computer geeks and even laid off CEO's bagging groceries while hunting their "next" job, rather than sit on their butt's till the ideal job comes along. I've even seen a few resumes that had, gas station attendant, walmart checkout, milking cows, baling hay, lawn mowing, bicycle repair technician, night watchman, janitor, and even saw one time, babysitting for a day care while "he" was between jobs, and yes I know my business was used as a place of employment being the ditch monkey while they were finding their next job they were qualified for. To me rather than sit on their butts drawing unemployment it shows work ethic and a certain quality to any person who'll work below their qualifications, all those that came to me looking for work who were in fact overqualified told me it looked better on their resume to have ran equipment and shoved in ditches rather than draw unemployment for up to two or three years while hunting and going to interviews, those were also hired on the criteria they didn't have to give two weeks notice to me, if they got hired they started their next job right away no hard feelings.
If they can't read an instruction manual or a job print, read a list of deliveries to be made when given to them in the morning, fill out a time sheet or a delivery ticket so that it can be read what am I supposed to do? Send someone along to do it for them?
That's pretty decent of you to hire "overqualified" people. Around here, if you apply for a low paying job, and tell them your work experience is being an operator, truck driver, or construction laborer, they tell you that you "made too much money to work here".
Had a fellow come in awhile back and was thinking about giving him a shot until I saw his mouth then told him he would have to pass a drug test never seen him again.
I recall a few years back our boss was interviewing a guy and was almost ready to hire him when the drug test part came up. Guy said "Can you give me a week or so? By then I should be good to pass." ointhead Not sure why he didn't get the job!
My SIL worked drove for a company that required a drug test for any accident. One driver slid in a ditch on icy roads. He called it in. When a supervisor showed up at the truck the driver was gone and they never saw him again. We have 2 guys in the local area who lost their jobs through no fault of their own. One, good guy and a worker, applied for a got a years leave of absents from his job as a linguist for the state so he could build his family a house. He did in fact build the house only getting help with things like setting the roof trusses. Year was up, the state figured that they didn't really need someone in that position and eliminated his position. Sense then he has been self employed and now has another regular job. The other guy is a POS. He was a programmer. His job moved to India, 10 years ago. Sense then he was a stay at home dad and when the kids left a house hubby. He stopped by the other day to whine. I don't have any idea why he thinks I care or even thinks I like him. His wife told him get a job or get out. She could care less if it's a minimum wage job or better as long as he gets a job. She's tired of supporting him. He says he won't go back to work unless it's as a programmer for at least the 80K a year when his job went away. I told him I knew of an entry level IT job he could apply for that starts at 15 an hour with good bennies. Nope, it's not programing. So with him setting here I called my son who is a network engineer. My son told him if you haven't worked in the field in the last 2 years your programming degree is worthless. And he too tells him that the company he works for is looking for IT people. Not interested. So I tell him of all the local nowhere jobs that are open plus a few farm jobs. Nope ain't programing. I finally got fed up and told him well I hope you can afford a divorce lawyer cause you are going to need one. I thought the sorry POS was going to cry. Then he ask me (semi retired small time start up farmer) well don't you need some part time help? I told him nope and if I did he'd be the last person I'd call. Then I told him to man up. When he left I told him don't come back. Rick
I find that a simple pre-employment drug test weeds out a lot of the trash.
I work in a shop that had a guy that didnt have a drivers licence or a road worthy car so he mist alot of days so they made a deal with him if he worked 40 hours he would get a extra $100.00. I didnt ever take a vacation,stayed late if need, worked every saturday that they needed me,brought tools for home and some times used my own 4x4 pickup when the weather was bad to do my job. After 4 years there i became the forman but i never made more than that guy. I heared about a job that was about 15 miniutes from a house that i had just bought. At the time i was driveing 3+ hours to work so i applied and went for a interview. It was for a Mechanic in the lawn mower part of a equipment dealer. We talked for around a hour i had bought parts from their before and worked for a guy that had 3 Dozers that he had bought brand new from them. It was going good until he saw that i was working as a welder. He said we cant pay you what you are geting now and i said i dont care i will not be driveing 3hours. I went to great lenghts to tell him i would be happy with what they could pay me.He told me before i left that it was between me and some one else but that guy lived further away and didnt have a licence. I didnt get the job.
Fist of all I agree with most of what has been said but I would say don't judge a book by its cover. I'll use myself as an example I did my licence in once the judge took it of me for 5 years so my partner had to drive me around. I 2 pick my nose. The crack in the windscreen might have only happened in the last couple of days.( I don't know wat a hoopti is ) if its a pice of crap car we have all had at least 1 of those. The poor guy might b doing it a bit tough did u think of that. As for having a snooze for all u know he might b packing shelves at night time trying to keep food on the table. Hell at 1 point in time i had 3 jobs and an old bom car a had been through a real hard patch my clothes were old n grease stained I was un shaven tired all the time from over work n stress a woolie mop 4 a hair cut the list goes on I can hardly spell my grammar skills r poor and so on but What does any of that have to do with wat I can do in a machine. I don't mean to brag but I can honestly say that I can shift dirt and not hurt the machine I can trim 2 within 25 mill or an inch with a d8 over 200 yards square. My machines are over greased n clean oil air n fuel are a must in my brain u could eat off the floor in any machine I drive at any time I alwase try n swing my hours to the bosses favour and ill do almost anything without griping. The list goes on like I said don't b so hasty 2 judge a book by its cover. Will the computer literate high school graduate without a mechanical bone in his body driving the new car his mommy n daddy bought him b any good to you will he work away will he live in a swag beside the machine will he b there an hour early 2 get the first load of water out b4 everyone else gets there free of charge. Will he use some of his own tools in exchange 4 a bit of diesel Will he swing past the shed and give u a hand 2 pop the head on that old d7 just 4 the experience in his own time at night. I rather dought it. Will he b happy 2 drive an open cab pice of crap just to have a decent job or for the experience. Really I got say wats wrong with society. In my case I won't fill out an application I believe if the boss won't take 5 minutes to talk 2 me on the phone and a further 15 minutes to have a chat face to face than he is probably not worth working for in order 2 find good n capable men u have 2 hand pick no iffs no butts that's the cold hard truth mate office girls n 5 page resumays n an impressive stack of paper will only get u bull artists n wimps that r no good to u anyway most or the time. That's my 2 cence worth anyway.
Yair . . . Cam85 . Mate, for a young bloke you come over old school . . . all the best. By the way, where you been pulling out at Roma? That's my old stamping ground. Cheers.
I've got to agree with both sides you never know and your first instincts are correct. I hired three snowplow operators, my first impression was one was great, one was good but a hot shot .The other seemed a bit off , drives Yugo with plastic on the window and doesn't have a home phone. (this is way before anyone did this). Well the great one sucked left after 4 storms , The hot shot was a hot shot lasted for many years . The Yugo guy was the best, I put him in the oldest Oshkosh and he loved it. Never missed, never complained he plowed until unfortunately he passed away at like 45. Another time a driver was highly recommended to me by a friend. I knew him somewhat always a nervous guy. He shows up and I'm like this guy's on crack. Call my buddy he says no way. I did some more calling and thank God one of his latest employers gave me the real scoop. Yep he's a crackhead. The biggest junkyard/ used truck sales place hires him. They find out in no time he's a crackhead, borrowing $20 from anybody and disappearing all day long. Do they fire him? NOPE The multimillionaire owner won't pay unemployment. He worked there for years stealing and driving everyone there nuts.
I'd bet some wonder about me, I know my wife does I Live in Central NY and ride a ratty old Yamaha with a sidecar to work year round. Then I've only worked at this job a short time, frist day here was June of 1968! Took a few months off the first couple years to get some community college time in but when I was offered a job in the shop pulling wrenches decided that looked better.
Great insight cam how old are you? Drinking vs smoking weed which would you hire? Obviously all things in moderation. .... some of the best wrenches I know smoke weed good mechinics are very hard to find when I used to look for work and got handed a application I'd would "leave my number" take the application. "I'll fill it out later" (only after I got hired) or if ) one guy asked me if I do drugs.... Mabel he thought I did. At an interview I didn't want to work there very much or for him Why No I do not do drugs ( felt insults) I Irish, I Drink
Ksh tell you lovely wife I said you probably have more style in your pinky than most people have in their whole body!
im not a bit a scared of work....I'll lay right down next to it! Me at an interview lol hello oar 80 degrees here of course im indoors And you are so right.... dont judge a book by its cover
After rolling my 2005 suv into a ditch last month [friggin deer].. I had to bring the old Bronco out of retirement..95' The boss caught me at lunch looking at "craigslist".. today.. just looking at tools for sale.. He made the comment, "you looking for a used car?? lol.. oh wait, you already drive 1.." My answer?? "NOPE, LOOKING FOR A JOB, SO I CAN BUY A NEW CAR" .. He didn't think that was funny and left the room.. Don't think I'm gonna stay there much longer.. 25 years is long enough..
Thanks scrub I've been around Surat but the boss tells me I'm of to around injune some where to build some lease pads buy day and push gravel by night about 5 weeks work I'm told wants me to go as the outher young blokes don't wanna camp out. Also apparently they crack up about the hours and like to tamper with the dog I wouldn't feed the sooks they forget our boss has carried us through a quiet patch. Hey fix thank for the kind words mate I'm 29.if sound old school that is because my grandfather is responsible for my education at the time I thought he was an ironic old hard ass. However in hindsight he taught me well and stood me in good stead to take on the world and I cannot thank him enough. As for the weed vs grog I don't know that's a tough one if had to choose between a **** head or the bloke that has a j and goes to bed I'd take the smoker but ther is the flip side of the coin if I had to choose between a reefer head off his chops all the time or the bloke that has 3 beers every night I would take the drinker as u said moderation is the trick. Now as for an interview I'm my mind nothing is off limits if the bloke is going 2 hire me he need to know wat he is getting I believe in truth and transperency no mater the subject personal or otherwise but it goes both wayes I believe a boss is not a boss but a team member without him I am useless but without me he is useless but together we can get somewhere. I won't work 4 people but I'm more than happy 2 work with them But that's just me!
Yair . . . Cam85 . I know the feeling. I worked for a bloke who looked after us . . . fighting Allis Chalmers and trying to keep it all together but we never missed a pay. Cheers
The most talented employee i ever had i hired just after a breakup with his long time girlfriend, was living in a motel, driving a 20 year old ford ranger 4cyl, 4spd with a cracked windshield and power nothing, no radio, barely heat. He had Had a Limp and long hair, with the energy of a 8 year old. He could do more in 4 hours than most men could do in 12 let alone 8. Made me money day in day out like clockwork, stuck by that unreliable truck for years put 450K on about once ever 4 months it would strand him somewhere and he would bust out the little tool kit he kept in the tool box and rig it back together and get to work.
I don't judge people by what they drive. In fact I respect someone who drives an old vehicle. But if you add all of the things up I mentioned..wife driving him for interview, wife filling out his application, old beat up vehicle...imy assessment of him will be spot on more often than wrong.
Sorry mate the only thing I could pick on was the littering but I wasn't there and I was only trying to offer a different way of looking at people. Sometimes when u drive a desk 4 to long it can b easy to forget how things happen in the field and sometimes bosses need reminding that clients n field men are a different breed that's all. I can c what u r saying I really can was only trying to offer the flip side of the coin.
also best truck driver i ever knew couldnt read the driving test but could wheel the hell out of a rig.
Seems like every poster to this thread has had issues good and bad with various individuals. I believe the single most important point is that the person has to have the skills and ability to perform the job you want done. If you are into chemicals and hazardous waste, surely you can't have a person who can't read or is dyslectic perform the work. There are other types of work you learn on the job and become skilled. If the person does not have to meet the public, long hair, tats or attire don't have much to do with what the person can produce. Take a moment to evaluate what you would in this situation. Man comes in to fill out an application for a heavy equipment mechanic position. He's clean cut, has on normal work clothes and boots. He starts to fill out the application and soon asks the secretary for a continuation sheet to list work history. After an hour plus he is still filling out the application and is on his fourth continuation sheet. I step out and ask to see what he is noting on the continuation sheet. I look them over and ask him just to list the types of work he has performed and start off with your education and technical schools attended. Here's what he listed; Dropped out of school 11th grade Attended trade school for electronics and electrical systems Class on hazardous waste handling Class on hydraulic systems Type of work performed Lathe, mill and welding in fab shop Aircraft sheet metal mechanic Public works, sewer system, lift pumps and garage Final and flight operations on aircraft (avionics & flight controls) Mechanic, heavy equipment Licensed as a General Contractor Licensed as Environmental Assessor Senior Construction Project Manager Proficient in AutoCAD (mechanical, civil, architectural) Plant Engineer College instructor (Civil Engineering) Farming (35 acres) After a quick review, I asked if he had graduated from a college or university. He said "no, I read a lot, test well and I am very good with computers". Here's the situation, he's 70 yrs old, said he has no ailments and rarely has to see a doctor. Would you hire him as a heavy equipment mechanic?
Does he seem fit enough to jump up and down a huge truck tire? I dont know the size of your operation but if you have a young gun who can learn from him and do the heavy lifting, pull the breaker bars etc he is probably a diagnostic genius. And to me thats a more important skill. Figuring out the issue is normally the biggest problem.
In a heartbeat, after verifying former work and a couple references....
I'll take two..... ps think the question would be "Would you let him leave ".... Really ? Care for some coffee Sir? Would you like a doughnut ?
My question is has he ever kept a job for five years or more? My thoughts are why would a 70 year old want to work on iron. Is he out of money, looking for a state industrial claim, age discrimination, can he lift seventy pounds three times a day, can a doctor certify his health? The last thing anyone would want is an injury to someones' grandfather. His wealth is in his head so what can he offer as a consultant, trainer, planner or shop supervisor? Then I would do what is possible to check out his story before going any farther.
I have a question, since there is never just one applicant for a job, what did the resume's look like from every one of the other's who applied for the same job? Then how badly do you need him, what is it your wanting him to do for you and fix [service truck mechanic, shop mechanic, shop foreman, supervisor] Next question, why does he want to work for you pulling wrenches at his age and with his potential list of qualifications at much higher paying, cleaner jobs requiring less physical requirements? How long do plan on having him around before you need to look for his replacement?? By the time he gets into the swing of the job, gets proficient in what you want him to do on your systems, is he going to quit and move on or retire for good? How are his people skills and why is no longer doing any of the jobs he's done in the past? What do his prior employers have to say about him, and why is he no longer working for them? After some of these are answered maybe I'll have an answer for you if I'd hire him, what you offered is just the start of the interview process and what I'd use to narrow down the possible prospects for employment. I doubt my insurance company would even consider allowing it at his age, he'd have to have a valid cdl, clean driving record and pass drug testing and a full blown physical.................as for the other applicants??
Or maybe he just enjoys it. Sometimes simple answers are the answer.
Found out a little more about the candidate. He thought he wanted to retire so he did, two years ago. Says it driving him crazy (possibly the wife) and just wants to be productive again. He's drawing SS and has other investment income so he's not doing it for the money. The references check out, was a last position 7 years and prior was 6 years. Wouldn't expect him to be bucking tires although he seems very fit and the hand shake is firm. He's quick to respond to questions and knows his stuff. He is very knowledgeable on current electronic engine controls and electro-hydraulic systems. I agree that he would be much more useful in troubleshooting and let the younger guys fix the problem. He also seems to be the "old school mechanic", not the remove and replace type tech. He said he prefers to fix the item rather than to wait for a replacement part. Paul
I would hire him in a heart beat.....
I think you just found yourself your new hands-on training officer.............
What Nige said
Sounds like a great guy to hire. Especially if he is willing to work with someone and share his knowledge. And, if you don't want him, send him my way.
Aside from tires, being older and weaker isn't as big a deal as it used to be. You really don't want anybody picking up a heavy component anyway, even if they don't get hurt, do you really want somebody risking damaging a seal or nicking something important? The only other factor I can think is whether he wants to work in the field, I know I'd love to still be working at that age but I won't be working outside in bad weather if I don't feel like it. Same with crawling under dirty equipment, maybe once in a while but it would get old doing it every day. For the youngsters on here, 50 some years ago dropping out of high school (or never entering HS) was much more common, and did not prevent somebody from getting a decent job.
Not to derail the thread, but what Delmer said about dropping out of high school hit a nerve. College used to be the holy grail, and a degree almost guaranteed good money and better working conditions. I knew things had gone downhill, but a couple recent news reports raised my hackles. It seems the majority of first year college students fresh from America's finest taxpayer funded school districts are reading at a 7th grade level. Wow. Add to that the fact that college tuition has risen faster than ANY other expense, way beyond even healthcare! Then there are the expanded course lines to choose from and you get kids coming out with a quarter million in student loan debt (which it looks like the taxpayers will end up paying after a few years, another Obummer discomplishment) and a degree in something eminently useful like "Gender studies" (I thought that's what the kids did at the frat keggers?) or Sociology? If we're going to survive as a nation we need to be opening more and better schools that allow students to learn something useful, trade type schools, with "Engineering light" programs along with welding, machine work, mechanical repair, etc. The college system we have today is only a boon to the ever instatiable finance industry, always hoovering up it's profits from the taxpayers since they get guaranteed profits while the rest of us get guaranteed IRS notices, and the teachers and admins, the majority of which are either Vietnam era draft dodgers or members of the Weather Underground or both. When they do teach, it's often about how bad our country is and how the students need to tear it down... remind anyone of the protests of the 60's? They're still going on, by proxy, and funded by us. Rant mode off, sorry.
Rant completely understood...and should be a thread of its own! Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs) has been campaigning pretty hard for the trades with scholarships and such, as an alternative to a college degree in some worthless subject. http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/ . He has some pretty good videos on the subject that are well worth watching.
College Educated There will always be disagreements about education at whatever level it may be. Dropping out of school can be caused by many issues which are present today and may not be in the future. Many drop out because they don't want to learn or unable to fully grasp what the class work is conveying. A dropout is not necessarily a lost sole destined for poverty. I have seen it more than once where a student will drop out of school because they are functioning well above the courses they are required to take. In a few instances I have observed where a student is forced to remain in school in the 10th grade and he only needs 4 class semesters to graduate and drops out because it is a waste of his time to remain in school. Gets a GED and challenges college courses in Math, Science and English and ends up with 45 units his first semester. Many schools are just not able to accommodate advanced students just as they struggle with slow learners. There are also those individuals who learn best by observation and doing things hands on. Some can barely read or write and they become very skilled in the job they chose as a career. I have had students working on their master's degree go into the field and work to gain hands on experience. Some excel and others just don't have it. Reminds me of the situation on a late Sunday afternoon, where the bathroom backed up in an attorney's home. Tried the plunger--didn't work. Got on the phone and reached Joe's plumbing who could be at his home in 20 minutes. Joe arrived and 15 minutes later he's finished and hands the attorney the bill. The attorney can believe it, $250 for 15 minutes work !!!! I'm a good lawyer and I don't make that much. Joe looks at him and says, "I didn't either when I was a lawyer." Paul
I have learned in my 40 plus years on this rock hurdling through space that intelligence is measured in infinite ways.
im going to add to this (sorry bout the soapbox rant) I have been in the repair end of this business since I was in diapers (yes literally) started with my dad, it used to be on Saturdays & in the summer when I was out of school we would go to supply houses to get something there would be other kids in there with their dads... now days the supply houses are all "guys" in their 50s & older getting parts, you don't see any young service people anymore!!! whats going to happen when these guys start retiring or dying off?? theres a real shortage of trained mechanics, not parts changers (sorry if that offends someone).. In the next 10 years we are going to see this problem get worse & none of the young people think they should have to get dirty to make a living... my buddy is always giving the Spanish people down the road for taking jobs, my response "theres no white guy that will work/do that job" I hate to say it cause I was brought up to work hard for everything I have.. but so many are standing waiting on a handout instead of looking for a job!!! soapbox lecture over for now!!
That is a very good observation. I am concerned, as most of the young people do not want to do "hard" work. There used to be willing youth that wanted to learn a trade, where now they have been convinced they need to go to college to be worth anything. The youth are not getting into cars and hot rods much these days, and there seems to be little to draw them to the trade. I hate to admit, but my own sons have no interest in my trade, and after working for a few weeks, quit and said that the work was too hard. I wish now I would have learned to speak spanish while I was in school, though now I would encourage young people to learn to speak that as well as chinese. It seems that is where there are people found that are willing to work hard to get somewhere.
I can personally attest to the attitude that young people nowadays don't want to work for anything, especially if they have to get dirty. I'm 34 and have been performing custom farm repair since high school, through a 4 year university degree, alongside a fulltime job for 8 years, and now am making more money and setting my own schedule working for myself. I have an Industrial Technology degree that is of little value to me now. I've had more customers than I can count tell me how there is NO one willing to work on their older machinery and they can forget about field service. My customer list and service area can attest to that. I have no professional training and am busier than a cat burying s*%t so there is a market but no one is willing to fill it. Individuals I've known who could (my age and younger) are too lazy to do it and have said as much. I'm getting dealership referrals for older machines that can't be plugged into a computer to tell a tech what's wrong instead of figuring it out himself. I was "encouraged" by my parents to get a university degree, but I intend to let my son figure out what he wants, and maybe try to gently steer him into learning a skilled trade that can be immediately put to use. He at 2 already knows what to do with a wrench . The world may run by computers but they can't do anything but tell a machine what to do so there will always be a need for someone who can fix things.
I see this problem from two directions. First is too many in education that think working with ones hands is something people who don't have the intelligence to do college level work are to be pushed into. I had just the opposite problem, back in 1966 the local schools were just starting a tech type school. I tried to get into the program for auto mechanics. I was told no way! I was "Too smart" and should be going to college. I thought this may have changed over the years but my brother who just retired as a principal in just one of those tech schools tells me that the guidance counselors still want to use the tech schools as a dumping ground for problem students who can't handle normal school work or are discipline problems in the regular school. Then there is the side of the problem with too many in management positions in some companies who think they can throw just anyone off the street into a shop with an adjustable wrench and screw driver and expect them to fix something like a 980K Cat loader. "You want us to spend money on training?" "Do you know haw much that communications tool for that computer you have will cost?" "Why do you need access to the internet for SIS?"
Problem with college is that it is a corporation, it's about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s not education, much the same as regular schooling.
One big problem people cant think for them selfs when it comes to stuff like college. Alot of people think that life is a set path were you go to school then college then get married and have kids. I know of several guys that have big college dets and will never use what they learned to pay this det off. I think it is very important to finish school so as to build the skills to see something through.Its a diffrent world today. I growed up wanting to have things and i needed money to get them. I got along at home but i didnt want to have to do what my dad want me to do so i had the want to move out. Now kids dont have to do much or any thing at home so why leave. I had alot of wants when i was in school i wanted my Drivers license, a pickup and a motorcycle.I can remember day dreaming about the day i would have stuff that i wanted and that gave me the drive to work. Now most kids dont have this drive.I have a good buddy that has a woman liveing with him with 2 boys. My bubby works on the city water deptment. He likes his job and i like haveing runing water but those boys only see the sun when their geting on the buss. It makes me think that i need to drill a well in my yard so when my buddy retires i will have water.
And don't get me started on the money they pay coaches and how many they need for each sport!
The latest statistics show the average person today entering the workforce will change careers 7 times in their lifetime, not jobs, careers, translating into nothing they went or will go to college for.............they will ever actually use.
Yair . . . It is concerning to see the problem is all over. A few years back the local school asked if I would be prepared to take young blokes on for "work experience" at the golf course . . . just a couple of hours a week. It was an eye opener for me, I never realised kids could be so useless. I only took the four, two at a time over a six week period. They showed complete lack of interest, cracked up when I insisted phones were left at the shed, lacked the dexterity to actually manipulate a ten inch adjustable spanner with one hand and only one of them could use a bloody screw driver . . . these kids were fourteen or fifteen! At that age I had built a couple of dams with a Fowler crawler and a Tumbling Tommy scoop, I could weld a bit and was right into souping up two stroke motor bikes . . . at the same time I had acquired all the formal reading and writing and arithmetic I was ever going to get. Some thing has gone awfully wrong with education and it is difficult to understand how we could have gone from a world that put flights of bombers over Germany (and Britain) with crew ages averaging less than twenty one to the youth of today who can only drive a phone . . . it is not the kids fault it is the way society has shaped them and I certainly can't suggest any answers. Cheers.
Scrub, I agree with you and several of the other posters about today's youth, but I saw the seeds of it in my youth. It isn't just the schools fault as I think you know, it's on the parents a lot too, AND the silly ass government regs that say you can't have kids working, it's dangerous and hard on them. How the hell will they learn about the real world if they never see it? No wonder the big concerns are ruled by the safety morons these days, we keep trying to make enough rules so that eventually nothing will get done, filing the safety report might cause a paper cut! It comes down to a societal thing, along with too much technology I think.
I'd love to have to fill out that report! Almost as good as a few weeks ago I was waking along with a part on a hand cart and just as I got to the door for the wash-bay stepped on some ice under the snow and went flat on my back. When I hit the ground got a cut on the top of my head from the adjuster of my hard hat!
I agree with most everything said in this thread. I do have a bit different take on the education thing though. Basically we have let the education industry decide the direction and flow of the country. The public four year universities in this country, where the bulk of college students get their indoctrination, are for the most part, people who cycled from degree to university job without ever seeing any kind of endeavor that has a profit associated with it. The students who are thrust into the real world are terribly unprepared and it takes more time to break the brain washing before they can contribute towards a profit margin. They bring the mind set though that only a person with a degree can operate a business. They know it because some professor told them so. All this just connects back to the snake eating his tail. This system is now ingrained and you don't have a chance to change it because there is a catch 22. You see you don't get a voice in the process of change unless you have a degree. If you have a degree you have a stake in the system and have been trained not make any attempts to change it.
When was the last time you saw a kid pushing a mower down the street to make a couple of bucks on the weekend? I'm only 32 and had a couple of buddies that use to do this all summer long. Some of you might think I'm wrong but my boy will come up in this business the same way I did. At his dads side every weekend before the sun comes up and learning everything I can make stick in his hard head. There will be no sleeping in to 10:00 then watching cartoons till noon. Even if he hates my guts and wants nothing to do with his grandpaps business he WILL have a work ethic that will make him the best at what ever he want to do.
John, I believe this may well be the most profound, well thought out, and relevant thing ever posted on HEF! :notworthy The only thing I can add is: don't forget to look at what has happened to tuition costs and salaries in higher education, they have both skyrocketed. Even "lower education" in this state at least is one of the highest paid careers. In SC, a 23 y/o 1st grade teacher with a master's starts at over $50,000, with no experience. Of course, they still talk about how tough the heroic teachers have it financially....
Its been said for decades, those that can't, they get jobs to teach and its more true today then ever. Colleges and universities are experts in one thing, advertising to get kids to come to their school, its in the media every day, kids are indoctrinated with it every day from kindergarten on, the older they get the more the advertising and high pressure sales are on to get students to attend, most boarder line criminal what they do and say to attract kids. Now online colleges are popping up all over the country and its one of the largest growing ways to target older people to attend, those either misplaced from a current job or looking for something different to do with their lives. As for directing the country, I'd say instead its manipulating the kids of the country via the media, its got nothing to do with education, its dollar driven as far as profits for the colleges. Sports are the worst, most kids are attracted to sports and colleges know this, that's why full ride scholarships are given to athletes in every aspect of sports out there. Any parent that's ever gone to college visit day with their kids can experience the full impact of advertising and manipulation they do, but until you stand back and actually take notes and reflect from a distance, they are so good at what they do, you don't even know what's being done to you, far better than used car salesmen or politicians will ever be. I've gone to my share of these things, and they are so good its an art form of sorts in how they operate, borderline criminal, but very good, more smoke and mirrors than you can ever imagine. If you've been a parent battling the system of any university, knows a totally new way of being blown off, told off and the true technique of intimidation and an old fashioned run around is truly all about. As you may have guessed, I'm not a fan of any college, university or even tech schools by any means to say the least, my full opinions on this topic shouldn't be printed, as to how to solve the problem, in my experience dollars will always win over common sense and no amount of preaching or talking will deter or influence some kids, some experiences have to be lived, not told...............and so the problem is repeated over and over again.
Those who can - do. Those who can't, go into teaching. Those who can't do either of the aforementioned, go into politics...........
Do...Teach...Politics Nige said, "Those who can - do. Those who can't, go into teaching. Those who can't do either of the aforementioned, go into politics.........." There are exceptions to every assumption ---- I've done all three & much more I can because that is where I started I teach to educate and train those who can and want to get better Got into politics to promote technical training and funding to pay the teacher who instructs those who can to promote themselves I get in the trenches and look all of them in the eye so they know where I have been Paul
Yair . . . chansey . I'm curious, what subjects do you teach? I ask because I certainly would not want you teaching any child of mine. And this is just the problem mate . . . teachers like you who are incapable of putting together a cohesive block of thought out logical text. I suggest you sit down and rewrite that #81 post in a manner that conveys just what you mean . . . and repost it because I for one have no clue as to what you are on about. Cheers.
Scub, who wrote; " I for one have no clue as to what you are on about" .... I understand Paul
Yair . . . chancey . Well that's something . . . you do understand a clear concise statement of fact. Now if you could just put this piece of nonsense into context . . . . Metaphorics and Philosophics are not discussed here very much Cheers.
I'm just another "victim of public schooling " I too am looking forward to your trench stories! How would you handle teaching at the speed of your slowest student?
Scrub Puller, It is very apparent you haven't been in the trenches. It's ok, some people teach theory from a text book without any "real life" experience, others teach theory based on hands on experiences and use a text book for reference. Paul
Well I've seen people fix stuff and it doesn't seem that hard. You've got two hands just like me and vice versa. Picture a shop with a broken excavator to the left and a broken long truck to the right. In the center is a recliner facing a tool box. You have a later pointer in your hand, near the chair is a cooler full of cold beer.
I wouldn't have to diagnosis. ..look for stuff. ...think or make any phone calls. just point to the seal driver in the corner of the shop or the third drawer down where the tip cleaner is. I wouldn't have to bring in any tools or be asked what the problem is. ...sure would make life alot easier!
Mechinics: Who changes the bulbs in a firefly tales? Who tinkered with the motor of a bee? If bugs have bugs Who fixes them? Who fixes them is me. So if you're a cricket who does not sing. A mosquito with itch less bites. If you're friends with a wasp that does not sting.... or a spider who's scared of heights. If you meet a dragon who will not fly. If you know a weakling ant. If you see a slug who's getting dry.... if your caterpillar says I can't. Give me a call I do it all.
Here's my story. It is made up of both. When I was younger I was a diesel mechanic/welder/operator who moved into commercial fishing/boat repair/tug boating. I was always a reader and somehow went to work for an attorney at a law office. When I was 40 I started college as a freshman and got a BA and a MPA. From there I have worked in offices ranging from Tribal Govt. to what I do now which is writing environmental documents and getting permits for road construction projects. The long and short is that all of it was good and everything I did taught me something that makes up the whole of me now. My take is there is a lost generation that would die if they had to repair something instead of throwing it away and getting a new one. I still have all of my tools and sometimes when I am fixing something, someone will be there and not even know what the particular tool is let alone what it is for and god forbid, how to use it.
Read and understand !!!! Former Wrench is definitely one who has been in the trenches ...... based on where he has been, what he has done and what he has learned. His mind set is not solely based on learning from a text book. Having hands on experience coupled with technical ability is a huge advantage because the depth of the person is far more than most people at the same level. Not too long ago, I was completing a research grant at the University of New Mexico and had two students working on their masters assisting me. At the same time I was constructing a home and had to install my own 6" main water line. The trench was already dug and just needed some help setting the line and valves. I hired the two students to work for me to install the water line. After 300 ft, the plans called for a valve to be installed. The backhoe operator lowered the valve into the trench and the student began to bolt it in. The operator started honking the horn and waving his hands. The student asked, "What's wrong?" I looked at the valve and said that the operator was trying to tell him he was installing the gate valve backwards. He then picked up the valve and turned it around and bolted the valve in place. After almost 7 yrs in school, this was the first time he got any field experience. I am sure he had to discuss the incident with fellow students because it took him 3 full weeks to find out he had been skunked. Paul.
A first timer in the ditch and he picks up and bolts in a 130lb valve by himself? Keep your 70 year old mechanic, I want the kid for a laborer!
Rossaroni, Sorry, he's not available at the moment, he's now a civil engineer with a master degree and who knows, he may be the head of his own company. I agree he would make an excellent laborer. Would need to do a few things for him. Heavier gloves, he got blisters in 2 hrs , a larger brimmed hat because he is very light skinned and sun blocker. Paul
This just in. Local guy here who works as a supervisor for a construction company that's big enough to run 3 or 4 interstate highway jobs in that many locations. They are looking for laborers and people are walking out of interviews when they are told they may be 2-3 states away and working 50 or so hours a week. Same people crying cause they can't find work. Wife works at a convenience store that's looking for help both part and full time. People again turning done jobs because of evening and weekend scheduling. Rick
That seems to me to be the result of the nanny state we now reside in. It has become easier and more fruitful to sit and whine while collecting welfare/unemployment/disability, or whatever other program that the state comes up with than to actually get a job. That may not be convenient to their schedule. Might have to miss a TV show they like or something. I run into a steady supply of those that want a job, but when they realize the job involves actual work, and might be hard or dirty, then they decide to go on down the road.
Or they have children or other family members to take care of, or the wife/girlfriend has her own job and they can't afford daycare because they actually are not on welfare. It's not like the old days when everybody had an extended family or decent neighbors they could trust to look after the kids. There's plenty of laziness and pickiness out there sure, but take it from me there's a lot of desperation too, and people that would rather do without some things to be home with the family most nights. It used to be the job was everything, well it shouldn't have been then and given the attitude of the average employer towards his robots, er, people, it's no wonder a great many of us won't whore ourselves for a couple bucks.
Lantraxco, Very well said I've done my best to do my job for the same company for 45 years and now less than a month before I retire as the only mechanic at this quarry they are still trying to decide who will take over and are just now taking about posting the job. Need a 1/2 inch bolt drop by hardware store and pick up one, need a experienced heavy equipment mechanic just call up the store for one of those. Oh and only offer 1/2 of what I am getting paid and expect him or her to show up with $10,000 of tools that everyone at the quarry will be borrowing.
Good point.
What's Wrong with People Most employers really don't know what an individual does to keep an operation running, the creative things you do to cut costs and and the knowledge you have regarding any number of things. It's sad that an employer really knows your worth once you're gone. They always think you make far too much for what you do and never take into consideration the worth of the tools you have to do your jobs quickly and efficiently. When I retired, my former employer promoted one of the young oilers to do the work at half my salary, with little tools and even less experience. Before the end of the first 4 months they had 3 men in the shop. Go figure ..... What's wrong with people, where is the savings from not having a top notch person doing the work ??? Wait, I know, they have to pay more and there aren't any replacements. Paul
:iagree:exactly A lot of that sounds familiar, my first wife's dad was the only supervisor in the licence plate factory in the State prison near here, NO Not an inmate , after he retired he learned that they put three guys in there to take over his job! In my case over the past 4 decades I have built up a pile of special tools I made to do my job like the pushing blocks to remove and install bushings in loader linkage. They are just odds and ends of scrap round chunks of metal that I have scrounged up and with a little time on the lathe made them to push the bushings in or out with steps to stop them at the right spot to leave room for seals. Nothing fancy looking but make the job easy and fast. What will happen to these tools when I leave in 20 days? And how many bushings will be destroyed by someone trying to beat them in with a big hammer?
I know what you mean Kshansen.. I've been out of work for 2 weeks with ruptured disks and a sciatic nerve problem.. I went by the shop on my way to talk to the surgen about a date for surgery.. and locked up EVERYTHING I could lay my hands on.. I would have hated looking for tools after a 6-8 wk recovery.. AND on top of that.. Monday morning my home shop burnt to the ground.. think of all the tools I've made there makes me sick..
Sorry for your loss Pumpguy, I can't imagine the pain you're going through. Not that you'd tell your customers to get a second opinion from a surgeon about their injection pump, but... Have a look at the success rate of back surgery, pretty low. The correlation between back injuries and back pain is extremely low. Relax, take a vacation, change jobs, whatever it takes to get rid of the "pain in the back".
Interesting story. However, he might not need the job.
Good points Trax' As we know it takes Money to go out of town, It's also a Leap of Faith" in a new employer....with no one to count on around you (or worse) A young couple could be sharing a car that may not be reliable enough to leave town. Some of us can afford to stay home rather than whore out. I'm sure some are apprehensive about driving three states away only to return with their tail between there legs and broker than before they left.
Some folks just aren't cut out to work away from home. That said, a good percentage of those who aren't, aren't suited to hold a job close to home either. I seem to be having a poor success rate in finding employees who want to learn the trade and move up. Most seem to think they deserve to start at the top, or at least halfway there, and then there are the ones that seem to think one or two weeks of labor entitles them to a raise and promotion to "operator". It seems very few want to spend the time it takes to actually learn what is needed to succeed in the business. There are good ones, and I have not given up, but it seems it takes at least twice as many candidates as it used to to find a good one.
We have a lot of non working jackwagons around here that won't take a job unless it pays what they THINK they should be making and gives them the hours they want to work...and when I say this I'm talking about someone who only has at most retail/restaurent work skills, nothing really valuable or uncommon. They think they are worth $20+ an hour when the norm for their field is a good bit less than that, and they think they should not have to work 40+ hours or they think that their weekends, nights, and early mornings are more important than earning some bread. I have always been willing to work hard, work long hours, do the unpleasant jobs, and make the sacrifices as necessary. I have always had at least an OK paying job as a result and always had plenty of hours to work, plus the bosses are willing to give me raises, promotions, and all the other good stuff.
Well guys there is some hope, I hired a 21yo from tech school in February and he's doing quite well! Asking all the right questions and not doing the stupid stuff so far. It's really hard to find young guys around here because they all get jobs in lobster boats making up to six figures for only six months out of the year.
Well get him on here so we can encourage him to keep up the good work and maybe pass on some knowledge from those of us who were the new guys on the job 45+ years ago!
Good one. Also, I would much rather have a kid like this, one that knows and respects the guy that is supervising, than some loudmouth blockhead that would b**ch about having to bolt the valve up by himself in the first place. Guys like that are trainable, for the most part. The crybabies are not.
I was reading a article the other day, I'll have to try and find it and post the link, but essentially if someone plays the game they can collect around $75k in government handouts a year :Banghead
When I worked road construction I always tried to work within driving distance of home. And quite often when the job was completed I was out of a Job. And drawed unemploymemt comp. In the spring I frequently was out of work and looking for work. I never bothered filling out applications. Once I want into the trailer at a job site. The woman in there handed me a application. I told her I didn't want to fill out a application I was ready to go to work. I walked out. There was a old guy in the office. He followed me out. Asked me what can you do? Who have you worked for? He then stated I need a finish Dozer operator ill give you a try out. Get in my truck. He took me out to the job site where a D6 10K powershift was . He said fire it up and show me what you can do. You better not be ****ting me because im a dozer operator and can tell just as soon as your ass hits the seat. First thing I did was take off the radiator cap and check the water. Checked the engine oil. Then lifted the seat to check the transmission oil. He drove away before I ever started the engine. I worked on that job till the very end. I always was able to find work when I wanted. And occasionally I was in charge of hiring. I never hired anyone who smoked and If they where addicted to using a cell phone I didn't want them also. I knew a few alky,s who could work fine. their wives had to drive them. Never seen a doper who was any good. In my thirtys I quit the operator trade. Why work outside in the heat & cold. Never have steady income and always have some a## foreman or picky inspector to try & please. I went to driving truck. Heat and Air cond. Always tried to work for a percentage of the Gross revenues. The owner & me both made money and I liked the work. One thing I learned. When looking for work its a two way street. Your selling that employer part of the productive years of your life. He need,s to make money from whatever you do for him and you need to make money just the same. So I looked at the companys equiptment. If it was old or junk I never even bothered to waste my time asking about work. If they couldn't do any better than that they weren't about to pay good wages. No point in marking time working for someone who would starve you to death.
Not to be mean but you sound like allot of the guys I wouldn't hire. Oh I hired a few and learned that they were never as good as they said they were. They always wanted more money, wanted to run the newest equipment and ALWAYS wanted to do it their way. Didn't listen very well and usually told others I didn't know what I was doing. Then they would leave usually when I needed them most to make more money elsewhere. Also wanted to be laid off first so they didn't have to work in the cold and snow. No thanks
Every one who I ever worked for I wanted them to make money from whatever I did for them. Like it or not that's the reason they went into business and that's the reason Why I went to work. Its like this the employee is waiting for quitting time and payday. and the owner is looking for job completion and the last draw. Both want the very same thing. I usually tried to drive truck where I got 25% of the gross revenues. I went from making $10 per hour as a finish dozer operator to driving a day cab freightliner pulling a gravel bucket. Got 25% and the rig could carry 27 tons which paid 10 cents per ton per mile. Averaging 100 miles in two hours that paid much better than operating. The last truck I drove I averaged $250 per day in earnings. No layoffs no rain outs in out of the elements and making better than $60,000 per year. The Mexican,s have drove the price paid for operators wages down to minium wage here in Arkansas. No druggie or doper can drive truck successfully. Operating equiptment and Mechanic are crappy jobs and those who hire them commonly look upon their employees a just another tool to get the job done a cheaply as possible. Yes Im not a complacient sheeple. I once was working on a job that the foreman was very abrasive. We got off on the wrong foot. I hauled a 621 scraper from Mountian View Ar to Black rock Ar. Parked the rig on a flat place centerd in the gravel road where it was the most level. Was taking off the multiple chains. And this guy in a black Pk drives up and starts yelling telling me I cant be blocking the road. I told him he would just have to wait a few minutes until I got unloaded. He Started yelling again. I turned around holding a boomer and started toward him. Asked him did anyone ever tell him to go get ******. Get got in the Pk and left. I found out the next day He was the new foreman. It took me a couple of weeks to get the spread of equiptment hauled. Then I went to work. First day I was using a front loader to load freshly blasted boulders and rock into a eulcid pit truck. And was hauling the loads to where there where deep fills. He came and took the set of plans the owner had given me away from me. After a couple of hours the loader blew air line. So I went to my Pk and got my tools and took off the hose and went to powells machine shop and had one made up. When I got back Here he came mad and yelling because I didn't go ask him permission. I gave him the finger and got in my Pk and left. That was on a Thursday. On Sunday afternoon the owner came by my house and told me when I left every on on the job walked off. And they wouldn't come back until I did. And guess what? We all went back to work. Everyone filled out their own time cards and we built 7 miles of hwy 166 without a foreman on the job. We got it cleared road bed up to grade and gravel on it in time for deer season Had some concrete work and slope work to complete but the dirt was all moved. . Hired Help that cant take care of their own problems and make decisions aint worth much. If you gotta babysit them you just as well do it yourself. A local trucking company is always in need of drivers. They advertise we will treat you like family. I don't want to be treated like family. I see how family treats each other. I want to make money. No shame in expection to make money from whatever it is that you do. Not to worry I now 64 & drawing a pretty sizeable social security Ponzi check. This old Guy does whatever he wants. and im having the most fun playing with my grandson and all my junk equiptment and vehicles. If someone had equiptment like the stuff I own I wouldn't work for them. Yep you probably wouldn't hire me and if you did I probably wouldn't make you a good hand. I would quit if I wasn't making enough money.